Sporadically I'm a member of Cycling UK, primarily because it always seems wise to have 3rd Party insurance should I ever cause an accident or harm & need cover; their 'no win no fee' legal support seems useful too.
Again, I've let my membership lapse and was wondering whether to sign up again. I appreciate the work they do for cyclists in the UK but don't feel that I gain I great deal from my membership beyond the above listed peace of mind.
Would you say that 3rd party insurance is a wise provision for a regular cyclist and that Cycling UK would be the best option or are there other options available?
Don't you have home insurance? 3rd party is nearly always included.
Don't you have home insurance? 3rd party is nearly always included.
We do, yes. I didn't realise that that might cover me for accidents/damage cycling (I do have my bikes covered on it though).
IME you have to understand the small print (my bold), e.g.
"British Triathlon members are covered by our public liability policy when they are training in the UK towards a Triathlon goal." https://www.marshsport.co.uk/ngb-schemes/british-triathlon-insurance-zone/members.html
Have a proper read before you commit
Don't you have home insurance? 3rd party is nearly always included.I’m not sure that’s true - it certainly sometimes is includes, and sometimes is offered as an add on but I’d suggest anyone who thinks they need it for their cycling carefully reads their particular policy. There isn’t a clear “standard” which means when shopping around one might cover you and another might not.
Of course claims against cyclists are pretty rare anyway (and probably even rarer if you don’t have insurance because a claimant is likely to realise getting paid will be hard/impossible). You are probably more likely to need to make a claim against someone else - but accessing no win no fee lawyers is not unique to them.
On the one hand Cycling Uk membership costs less than a coffee and cake per month and does some useful work championing cycling, but personally I think they might have priced it just slightly too high - they’ve made it expensive enough that people think about it! It does apparently get you 50% of STW subscriptions though - so combined it’s perhaps not a bad deal?
I’m not sure that’s true
Best check then. My Admiral cover has "personal liability cover" up to £1mil.
(And bugger paying for the same insurance twice!)
i just took out liability insurance via cycleplan, as my holiday insurance whilst covering mountain biking excluded liability insurance whilst riding my bike..., and as i'll be riding in usa, thought i best to have that just in case...
I've made a note to ring Cycling UK/Bikmo (the liability underwriter) as a long gravel event/race I'm doing in August specifically requests liability cover via British Cycling. Reading the wording on the CUK website earlier it was very ambiguous if I would be covered when competing, it's essentially a sportive.
Don't you have home insurance? 3rd party is nearly always included.I’m not sure that’s true - it certainly sometimes is includes,
It is true. UK domestic contents insurance policies include public liability cover.
I have never seen a policy without it. If you ask our AI overlords, it'll say it's not always included, but if you ask it to find you a policy without it, it won't be successful.
I'm not saying there isn't a policy out there without it, but in 25 years I have never seen one.
Of course claims against cyclists are pretty rare anyway
Funnily enough, one of the primary reasons that PL cover is in contents was due to a pedestrian stepping off a kerb and being hit by a cyclist. Neither had cover, both displayed negligent behaviour, I think the cyclist got brain damage (maybe died).
Reading the wording on the CUK website earlier it was very ambiguous if I would be covered when competing, it's essentially a sportive.
And this is a key problem. A contents policy probably won't cover liability from "racing". This is the same as not covering your actual bike for damage caused during a race or time trial which (certainly used to be) a common exclusion. If the specialist policies don't cover it, then a call is needed to the company to clarify.
Just carrying on with the cycling insurance theme - has anyone thought about/taken out insurance that might cover them for any liability when "leading" a ride?
I lead runs for our running club and we have cover through Scottish Athletics, so long as we've undertaken the relevant training. I'm frequently asked to lead rides for the cycle club too but I'm not sure where I'd stand if something occurred during that ride.
If leading rides you need to be very careful - go talk to BC or Cycling UK.
If general 3rd party, I'd look very closely at what your home insurance will or won't cover.
I got hit by a hit and run whilst cycling to work, but bounced into another cyclist. Both of us suffered broken bones, but because I couldn't prove/find the driver, the other cyclist decided to claim off me some months later (he had no cover). BC picked up the case and I believe they paid compensation. We tried to trace the driver but no CCTV etc, and I was busy picking up the other cyclist and the driver drove off. I'd reported the incident immediately to police and reported to BC, so the case was active. The other cyclist did nothing for months, then got in touch with me.
Now, here in adds the complication. After I phoned for an ambulance (for him - broken elbow) I then called his wife. Just so happened to be someone I worked with just a few desks apart, so they knew I'd reported the collision to police and just held my hands up. I broke ribs and just rode back home before going to A&E.
Could have been very expensive for me according to the BC's solicitor. No quibbles from them and it was all sorted.
Now, here in adds the complication. After I phoned for an ambulance (for him - broken elbow) I then called his wife. Just so happened to be someone I worked with just a few desks apart, so they knew I'd reported the collision to police and just held my hands up. I broke ribs and just rode back home before going to A&E.
Could have been very expensive for me according to the BC's solicitor. No quibbles from them and it was all sorted.
No good turn goes unpunished!
Fail to see how a car hitting you makes you liable for the subsequent events.
The technical details of the various different types of cover available from CUK automatically to all members, and the covers that can be purchased by "activity providers" and "organisers" are here:
<a href=" removed link " target="_blank" rel="noopener"> removed link
From the details of cover for all members here:
<a href=" removed link " target="_blank" rel="noopener"> removed link
Summary of the cover provided
Cover is provided for injury or damage caused by you to a third party while you are cycling anywhere in the world, except the USA and Canada.
A third party means anyone other than someone employed by you. You will not be covered for damage to property belonging to another member of your family. You are covered if you are cycling on a cycle (unicycle, bicycle, tricycle, tandem, triplet, quadracycle, cargo bike or adapted cycle) unless it is driven by mechanical power other than electric assistance.
You are covered while you are a fully paid-up member of Cycling UK.
You are covered while you are using your cycle for private and professional purposes, including business cycling and voluntary work. You will not be insured if you are specifically employed as a cyclist e.g. as a cyclist messenger or a courier cyclist.
You are covered while cycling in sportive, touring competitions, reliability events, Audax events, time-trials and in record breaking.
You are not insured for any other form of competitive cycling.
Corresponding cover details for British Cycling members are here:
<a href=" removed link " target="_blank" rel="noopener"> removed link
Note in particular the exclusions (and compare with CUK's exclusions):
Important exclusions include:
• Business use (e.g. cycle courier) but commuting is covered.
• Deliberate acts.
• The following member to member liability claims (claims made against one British Cycling member by another)*:
• One member against another in a cycling competition, race, time trial or timed event**.
• Any liability directly or indirectly caused to a member’s immediate family.
• Claims against members who are not resident in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands***.
• Events held under the auspices of other cycling organisations, except those whose rules and regulations (including Event Safety Guidelines) are acceptable to British Cycling. See “Am I covered when taking part in cycling events?”
...
** Typically, but not exclusively, a Sportive or other such organised mass participation event where times are recorded.
I think that the exclusion of member to member liability makes the British Cycling cover worse than worthless for participating in a sportive, because it gives members a false reassurance that they are covered for an accident for which they are responsible and which injures another BC member (any BC member, not just a member of the same BC club).
Conversely, if you are a BC member and are injured by the careless riding of another BC member in a sportive, they will not be covered by BC for their liability for your injuries. This makes a mockery of the guidance given to members about checking that events have adequate insurance:
Event guidance notes for members
- Always check that the event is insured. Before participating in competitive events always consult the event organiser with regard to the existence and extent of liability insurance cover provided for all riders and officials.
- Check how much cover is in place. Whilst members may be covered under the organiser’s insurance arrangements they should be aware that some cycling organisations and promoters of competitive cycling events provide a significantly lower level of indemnity for their riders and officials
Lastly, note also that the British Cycling cover excludes liability to family members, whether in an event or just a ride with your children in the park. Cycling UK's cover only excludes liability to family members for damage to their property, i.e. it includes liability for injury.
Just carrying on with the cycling insurance theme - has anyone thought about/taken out insurance that might cover them for any liability when "leading" a ride?
I lead runs for our running club and we have cover through Scottish Athletics, so long as we've undertaken the relevant training. I'm frequently asked to lead rides for the cycle club too but I'm not sure where I'd stand if something occurred during that ride.
To state the obvious, you should need to ask this question, because your cycle club should have provided this sort of information. The fact that they have not (and have presumably made no mention of training to lead rides?) suggests there is no or inadequate insurance cover, and that the club does not belong to (and nor is it affiliated with) BC or CUK.
Fail to see how a car hitting you makes you liable for the subsequent events.
Of course it does/can*
Think about this in car terms.
Car 1 hits your car 2. Pushes you into another car 3.
Car 1 didn't hit car 3 and cause them damage. So car 3 sues car 2, which in turn sues car 1 for the COMPLETE loss so far.
For cars, you've got a lump of metal that'll show the damage, as car 1 would have to have been moving quickly to push you into car 3. So, engineers assess the damage and work out liability.
Or, car 3 may be able to sue car 1 directly, at the same time car 2 is also suing car 1, depending on the severity and how it's been assessed, and how the insurance company wants to handle it.
Now change the cars for squishy human shaped things on bikes. Proving the chain of causality is much harder as there's less evidence, less expertise in repairs and damage. But person 3 was minding their own business when fossy (person 2) banged into them breaking their elbow. So they sue and... there's an outcome. Fossy doesn't have details of Moron 1 to sue, so he can't recover money there.
That's why public liability is helpful because some days some shit happens and it's likely to be covered whether you agree with the outcome or not. Just defending an allegation could be ruinous.
Edited to add, ask anyone working in motor insurance claims whether they have a dashcam. I bet the % saying yes is high!
Re-posted with links hopefully now showing:
The technical details of the various different types of cover available from CUK automatically to all members, and the covers that can be purchased by "activity providers" and "organisers" are here:
https://www.cyclinguk.org/insurance-document-hub
From the details of cover for all members here:
Summary of the cover provided
Cover is provided for injury or damage caused by you to a third party while you are cycling anywhere in the world, except the USA and Canada.
A third party means anyone other than someone employed by you. You will not be covered for damage to property belonging to another member of your family. You are covered if you are cycling on a cycle (unicycle, bicycle, tricycle, tandem, triplet, quadracycle, cargo bike or adapted cycle) unless it is driven by mechanical power other than electric assistance.
You are covered while you are a fully paid-up member of Cycling UK.
You are covered while you are using your cycle for private and professional purposes, including business cycling and voluntary work. You will not be insured if you are specifically employed as a cyclist e.g. as a cyclist messenger or a courier cyclist.
You are covered while cycling in sportive, touring competitions, reliability events, Audax events, time-trials and in record breaking.
You are not insured for any other form of competitive cycling.
Corresponding cover details for British Cycling members are here:
https://membership.britishcycling.org.uk/legal-and-insurance/third-party-liability-insurance
Note in particular the exclusions (and compare with CUK's exclusions):
Important exclusions include:
• Business use (e.g. cycle courier) but commuting is covered.
• Deliberate acts.
• The following member to member liability claims (claims made against one British Cycling member by another)*:
• One member against another in a cycling competition, race, time trial or timed event**.
• Any liability directly or indirectly caused to a member’s immediate family.
• Claims against members who are not resident in Great Britain, Northern Ireland, the Isle of Man, or the Channel Islands***.
• Events held under the auspices of other cycling organisations, except those whose rules and regulations (including Event Safety Guidelines) are acceptable to British Cycling. See “Am I covered when taking part in cycling events?”
...
** Typically, but not exclusively, a Sportive or other such organised mass participation event where times are recorded.
I think that the exclusion of member to member liability makes the British Cycling cover worse than worthless for participating in a sportive, because it gives members a false reassurance that they are covered for an accident for which they are responsible and which injures another BC member (any BC member, not just a member of the same BC club).
Conversely, if you are a BC member and are injured by the careless riding of another BC member in a sportive, they will not be covered by BC for their liability for your injuries. This makes a mockery of the guidance given to members about checking that events have adequate insurance:
Event guidance notes for members
- Always check that the event is insured. Before participating in competitive events always consult the event organiser with regard to the existence and extent of liability insurance cover provided for all riders and officials.
- Check how much cover is in place. Whilst members may be covered under the organiser’s insurance arrangements they should be aware that some cycling organisations and promoters of competitive cycling events provide a significantly lower level of indemnity for their riders and officials
Lastly, note also that the British Cycling cover excludes liability to family members, whether in an event or just a ride with your children in the park. Cycling UK's cover only excludes liability to family members for damage to their property, i.e. it includes liability for injury.
Just carrying on with the cycling insurance theme - has anyone thought about/taken out insurance that might cover them for any liability when "leading" a ride?
I lead runs for our running club and we have cover through Scottish Athletics, so long as we've undertaken the relevant training. I'm frequently asked to lead rides for the cycle club too but I'm not sure where I'd stand if something occurred during that ride.
To state the obvious, you should (edit - not) need to ask this question, because your cycle club should have provided this sort of information. The fact that they have not (and have presumably made no mention of training to lead rides?) suggests there is no or inadequate insurance cover, and that the club does not belong to (and nor is it affiliated with) BC or CUK.
and that the club does not belong to (and nor is it affiliated with) BC or CUK.
The Club is affiliated to Scottish Cycling. I have asked about Leading and insurance but I am currently awaiting a response.
. But person 3 was minding their own business when fossy (person 2) banged into them breaking their elbow. So they sue and... there's an outcome. Fossy doesn't have details of Moron 1 to sue, so he can't recover money there.
Whether or not the identity moron 1 is known to be sued you need to have been negligent. You can't be sued just because you were there. Perhaps the OP could explain on what basis the other cyclist thought he had been negligent.
I suspect there was no basis but for a broken elbow it was cheaper for the insurer to pay than waste lawyer time defending it.
Unless there is things we are not being told. OP drafting too close behind another cyclist unknown to him perhaps?
In my accident, it was because I couldn't provide evidence of who knocked me off, so that's why they came after me. I could tell them it was a brown B class Merc and a middle aged fella driving, but as I was picking myself and the other cyclist up, he drove off. No-one stopped despite being rush hour.
From the other cyclist's point of view, he's sat there dazed been knocked flying by me and hadn't a clue what was going on.
I tried the MIB but they weren't interested as I wasn't that hurt (broken ribs) nor had any property loss.
Shit does happen sometimes so it's worth checking you have cover.
E.g. wing mirrors aren't cheap these days (electrics, heating, cameras and indicators). I've ripped off a cars wing mirror with my forearm when it turned right as I was filtering on the outside. Did a bit of damage to my arm, but smashed the wing mirror. Fortunately, the car was a wreck and we just left it at that.