It’s not easy being Singletrack. Please help.

I might as well add to the cod business school stuff being said by others.

People saying they won’t pay the digital sub because “they don’t read the mag” seem to have missed the point that it doesn’t cost anything for STW to make a digital version of the mag for you – there’s zero marginal cost for digital goods. Some facts:

It makes no sense for them to cannibalise the “digital subscription” for a “forum only subscription” – Fact
The cost to them would be exactly the same, whether it included the digital mag or not – Fact
£25 per year to support a brilliant community and one of the few great businesses you use every day is a bargain – Fact

Anyway, for some reason reading all of the mad stuff in this thread made me upgrade my subscription. Keep up the good work, Mark, Hannah, Charlie and team.

(Edit – hmmm saying FACT after every line makes me look mad, if you haven’t read the last few pages of this thread)

Many replies later and no one has debunked any of the facts I posted.

What are your views on being able to access local shops and amenities within a 15 minute walk or bike ride?

Many replies later and no one has debunked any of the facts I posted.

TBH, there’s already a thread for that discussion. Crack on over there, but read through it first as you’ll find much of the ground already covered, hence nobody bothering to repeat it all.

Now onto the facts I wrote.

If you pay for a subscription I’ll happily talk to you all day about your ‘facts’. You want an argument? Then pay for it or go back to Facebook.

£25 per year to support a brilliant community

Having been on the receiving end of abuse for being a free member I’d dispute that assessment. If I was paying to be abused it would be by a 6 foot redhead (and I don’t really go for financial domination).

That’s the problem, some people think just because they’ve paid a membership then it entitles them to act like arseholes to everyone else. That’s not an exclusively STW problem, it’s a society problem. Drivers, tax payers, higher rate tax payers, council tax payers – all the same entitled [use your imagination].

As I said, I’ve explained my logic. And regardless of my reasons or circumstance very few if any people on here make their personal circumstances known. The way folk try to shame folk on here regarding membership status is really shitty. I bet none of the ones that do have said anything to Gnusmas. How many others do you think might be lurking undetected? I honestly haven’t found this on any forum anywhere else, even when contributer status is acknowledged and that includes the shooting forums where the lefties are a small minority.

The sad irony is, it’s exactly those people that put folk off from subscribing. I’m the sort of person that wouldn’t now out of sheer bloody mindedness. Funny that, abuse people and they want nothing to do with helping your community. Double irony.

…so why would anyone try to engage? Waste of time.

But people have engaged, but with infantile responses and ad-hominem type stuff. Par for the course for when I was last on here in 2020. People who realise they have been wrong all along have to resort to this kind of playground type stuff I guess to deflect from the truth. Rather sad IMO.

Ok.

Can we get back to the topic of this thread please.

@angusrob take your thoughts to one of the relevant threads please.

Well, I’m assuming that the various journalists aren’t working for free. So, in your example, any content not generated by the forum members does have a cost. There’s currently a choice (and Mark has made it clear it is his choice) being made to employ journalists over more forum tech team.

@scotroutes Sure, but that’s content generated for the print mag already.

And yes, he’s not going to replace journalists with programmers. It also sounds like his actual decision is potentially sadly much harder than that, and not beneficial to anyone 😞

Lastly, if STW was purely a forum with user generated content, it’s very unlikely that people would be happy to pay any meaningful money for it. “Just use Reddit!”

+1 Marko & Solar on their last points.

But a Forum only at £15 a year brought in another 5000 members who signed up at that rate… then surely it does make sense.. All of this assumes they’re thnking the £25 (or whatever it is) is too expensive, but £15 is acceptable. So in some ways it could make a difference. If we assume it’s correct that there’s 130,000 member/signed up… there’s got to be scope to get some more money in the coffers somehow. There could be loads at home thinking “i’m not paying for a magazine i won’t ever read”… “but i’d pay just for a forum”

I can’t see 5000 being realistic in any way- in fact I’d be surprised if more than a few hundred would sign up.

I’d be interested in seeing (but I’m sure Mark’s not going to publish) a breakdown of number of users/pageviews/posts. It may be confirmation bias, but I would guess that a large proportion of the signups are gone/”backup” id’s/one off or very occasional users. The core content creators on here probably number no more than a couple of hundred or so.

In my opinion, the need isn’t to extract more money from the existing users, it’s to grab new users and monetise them. I’ve been on here a long time (issue 3 to establish my heritage) like many others, and am now in my 60’s- the demographic is ageing, and it’d be great if there more younger riders coming on. the board. Off the top of my head weeksy, kryton, Tracey and matt_outandabout all have kids who are keen cyclists and their parents write of their kids, but I doubt that any of those kids have any interest in being part of Singletrack.

I can see Mark’s point- he’s not after world domination, just providing the necessary income for a small group of people, and that’s a great attitude, but I’m not sure that asking the existing fanbase to keep things going by itself is the right decision.

Obviously all the above is guesswork, not the thoughts of a professional. I must say I’m really surprised nobody has suggested bringing in the consultants……

A passive aggressive encore to the flounce – diva level foruming 😂

Off the top of my head weeksy, kryton, Tracey and matt_outandabout all have kids who are keen cyclists and their parents write of their kids, but I doubt that any of those kids have any interest in being part of Singletrack.

Yeah i’m afraid we won’t see the boy on here… He’s very much part of the Insta/Snapchat generation rather than forums.

The community that you hold so dear cannot be mob led or offensive if it is to be a welcoming place for more subscribers.

As you may or may not be aware, i own a motorbike forum, https://revtothelimit.co.uk/index.php

It’s smaller than this place, but in terms of postings, it compares well/better with most if not all UK motorbike forums. But we have the same issue there, the same issues on PB forum, the same issues on other forums, which is the perception of some members that they’re more important and own their right to preach to everyone along with the perception from newbies that they won’t quite ‘fit in’ as there’s cliques. Neither Mark (and his staff) or myself can do a hell of a lot about that.. We can only TRY to keep the forum nice and sweet and happy. But people have different views in the world. Sadly this world has moved now to where people cannot debate. All the can do is throw words out and preach, but they rarely listen in return. It’s a damn shame, but it’s the reality of society. The mods here may not do a perfect job, but they do it better than 99.9% of people on here, who don’t offer their services for the job. It’s an unrewarding job that’s for sure.

Having not been on the Covid thread for a while I hadn’t realised Andrew Bridgen had joined the forum?

Angus’s rant was so bizarre that I can see past it. It isn’t worth the air time and too many people have credited it with legitimacy by rising to the bait already.

Be under no illusion however, whether intentional, whether malicious or whether accidental there is plenty of direct non-subscriber bashing in this thread beyond the response to Angus’s rant (picks up cup of tea and a hobnob now that he has now also placed himself in Angus’s crosshairs…………)

The donation page is in the ‘More’ sub menu at the top of the page

MAybe that’s not where it ought to be 😉

I struggled to payup this year when my sub needed renewing. Basically because of the way this thread has gone.

A few posters were debating some things, quite amicably and then someone decides they’re gonna get snarky thinking they know better and then theres a pile on. Then someone comes on and totally derails the thread and turns it into an absolute shit fest.

Even the mods and the site owner get involved, when the whole thread is supposed to trying to generate new members!!! Yeah thats gonna work.

I keep seeing people say it’s only £2 a month, but it isn’t. Its £5 a month or £25 annually (digi) or £45 annually (paper). Its not about whether or not people can afford to pay £25 but if they want to payout £25 or £45 in one go. Give more options and you might get more members. I know someone will say, “well it’s half the price of a tyre”. Yeah it is, but people put value on a tyre that they are clearly not seeing here. Better content, different payment options (even with higher prices) might bring in more memebers. But really, I reckon you’ve hit a ceiling with the paper subs as paper mags must be on their way out, so the effort needs to be put in somewhere else to generate more paying members.

Anyway, this thread has gone to shit after being quite intersting so i’m floucing out as well!

Mark – Charities need donations, businesses don’t.

Tell that to The Guardian, Wikipedia and Politicians! 🙂

I’m only 10-15 minutes from STW by bike but I’ve never read actually read the mag even once. So I’ve subbed to the print version. I don’t post much but when I ask a question on here I usually get good answers and gotta support local business eh.