Update! Derbyshire County Council – halts ‘repairs’ at Pin Dale!

by 65

Derbyshire County Council. Utter those words in a local access forum and someone will shudder, cold chills will go round the room, and someone will call their therapist. Derbyshire’s efforts at Rushup Edge in the Peak District, have become something of an exemplar of how not to go about trail repairs – both in the sense of what you do on the ground, and how you go about consulting and working with local user groups.

Peak District MTB members have been valiantly attending Local Access Forums and responding to consultations in the hope of avoiding another Rushup Edge debacle, however today Peak District MTB is once again begging Derbyshire County Council to stop its ‘repair’ work on Pin Dale, plus other planned works in the area.

Following Local Access Forum meetings, Peak District MTB and other local users knew that repairs were planned, but thought that materials would be in keeping with the local environment – especially since the land is SSSI land and subject to Natural England supervision. You can decide for yourself how in keeping this is (pictures from Peak District MTB):

Mountain bikers enjoying the limestone of Pin Dale during a British Heart Foundation charity ride in 2018.

The new ‘repairs’.

Update, 19th January!

A Derbyshire County Council spokesperson said:

“We specified to the contractor that a limestone material be applied at the Pin Dale site and this was agreed with the Peak Park and the Peak District Local Access Forum.  Following this issue being raised with us we have spoken to the contractor who has explained that they had to fill some deep ruts during the work and they are due to finish overlaying the path tomorrow with a pure limestone material.”

If you see the finished result, we’d love to see how well all this rubble is covered up. And if you’re riding there in future, we’ll be very curious to see how well hidden the rubble stays beneath the limestone we’re told is going to cover it.

Another update, 19th January, a bit later in the day…

A Derbyshire County Council spokesperson said:

“Before work started we consulted and agreed with the Peak Park, Natural England and Historic England that a specific locally-sourced limestone would be used on the site.

“However, due to site conditions it was considered, with good intentions, that a recycled material would be better to form a good foundation, with a further layer of the locally-sourced limestone on top to complete the job.

“Following the concerns raised about the recycled material not being appropriate we are now looking at removing it and replacing it fully with locally sourced limestone, as was the original intention.

“We have halted work on site while we liaise with stakeholders about our proposal to remove the recycled material and will re-start work as soon as this plan has been agreed.”

Hopefully this is the start of a proper repair, and perhaps some more careful specification of works for contractors working in these sensitive areas. Well done everyone who sounded the alarm!

Original story continues…

A close up of the repair material. Where’s the limestone?

Peak District MTB says:

“Alarming work on Pin Dale by Derbyshire County Council

As we previously reported , Derbyshire County Council have planned maintenance work on multiple Peak District trails this winter and provided an indication of the nature of the work based their site visits with Peak District Local Access Forum (LAF), though further details from DCC were not forthcoming.

Extremely concerning work has now been done on the Pin Dale path near Hope, which seems to be significantly at odds with the original understanding of the work as using “locally sourced limestone hydraulically bound to suit the surrounding landscape”. Rather, the material appears to be a mix of tarmac road planing and general rubble from a brownfield site (though we are unsure if it is still being locally sourced).

We find it very odd that Natural England, Peak District National Park Authority and the LAF would have approved this material for use in a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI), a protective designation which covers all of the Pin Dale site.

We understand similar works are about to begin at Cave Dale on the doorstep of the picturesque and popular tourist village of Castleton, which also a SSSI and unique limestone landscape.

Given the huge discrepancy between the planned work, that was apparently agreed and approved, and what has occurred on the ground. And given what is at stake: We hereby call on Derbyshire County Council to halt all further work on the ground to prevent further irreparable damage to paths in the Peak District’s protected landscapes. Until, and so that, the contractors’ work on the ground can be fully investigated and appraised, in conjunction with the relevant and properly qualified bodies, i.e. Natural England (responsible for SSSIs), Peak District National Park Authority and the Local Access Forum.”

What can you do?

You can write to Derbyshire County Council, any of its councillors, councillors on the Local Access Forum, or MPs for the area explaining why you think this work is inappropriate and should be halted.

Here’s a video showing how it used to be:

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A post shared by Ian Cranshaw (@iancran76)

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Hannah came to Singletrack having decided there must be more to life than meetings. Having worked in policy and project management roles at the Scottish Parliament and in local government, Hannah had organisational skills that SIngletrack needed. She also likes bikes, and likes to write. Hannah likes all bikes, but especially unusual ones. If it’s a bit odd, or a bit niche, or made of metal, she’s probably going to get excited. If it gets her down some steep stuff, all the better. She’ll give most things a go once, she tries not to say no to anything on a bike, unless she really thinks it’s going to hurt. She’s pretty good with steri-strips. More than bikes, Hannah likes what bikes do. She thinks that they link people and places; that cycling creates a connection between us and our environment; bikes create communities; deliver freedom; bring joy; and improve fitness. They're environmentally friendly and create friendly environments. Hannah tries to write about all these things in the hope that others might discover the joy of bikes too.

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Viewing 25 posts - 41 through 65 (of 65 total)
  • Update! Derbyshire County Council – halts ‘repairs’ at Pin Dale!
  • martinhutch
    Full Member

    The speed of response and furious backpedalling is an indicator of how obvious a **** up this is, and the scale of consequences the authority is attempting to avoid.

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    Robert Largan, MP for High Peak has taken time out from lying low and pretending that Boris Johnson doesn’t really have anything to do with him to post this on FB:
    <div class=”kvgmc6g5 cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql ii04i59q”>
    <div dir=”auto”>Lots of Hope Valley residents have been contacting me about maintenance work on Pindale bridleway above Hope and Castleton.</div>
    </div>
    <div class=”cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql o9v6fnle ii04i59q”>
    <div dir=”auto”>Despite assurances given to local access groups by the Council, the materials being used for the work are not in keeping with the area (see below).</div>
    </div>
    <div class=”cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql o9v6fnle ii04i59q”>
    <div dir=”auto”>The local trail used for walking, running, and mountain biking forms part of the Peak District’s protected landscapes.</div>
    </div>
    <div class=”cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql o9v6fnle ii04i59q”>
    <div dir=”auto”>I contacted Derbyshire County Council, urging them to halt all further works on the ground to prevent further damage to the paths whilst this is investigated.</div>
    </div>
    <div class=”cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql o9v6fnle ii04i59q”>
    <div dir=”auto”>They have now agreed to halt the works and resurface the bridleway with locally sourced limestone.</div>
    </div>
    <div class=”cxmmr5t8 oygrvhab hcukyx3x c1et5uql o9v6fnle ii04i59q”>
    <div dir=”auto”>Thanks to everyone who flagged this with me!</div>
    </div>
    <div dir=”auto”></div>
    <div dir=”auto”>https://www.facebook.com/RobertLargan4HighPeak/posts/1366861500434351</div>

    Edit: that went well 🙁

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    I’ll try again – Robert Largan, the MP for the High Peak, posted this on FB.

    Lots of Hope Valley residents have been contacting me about maintenance work on Pindale bridleway above Hope and Castleton.
    Despite assurances given to local access groups by the Council, the materials being used for the work are not in keeping with the area (see below).
    The local trail used for walking, running, and mountain biking forms part of the Peak District’s protected landscapes.
    I contacted Derbyshire County Council, urging them to halt all further works on the ground to prevent further damage to the paths whilst this is investigated.
    They have now agreed to halt the works and resurface the bridleway with locally sourced limestone.
    Thanks to everyone who flagged this with me!

    googlegannet
    Free Member

    oh dear

    AlexSimon
    Full Member

    The bit about saying Pindale now, Cave Dale next is surely not true?
    Cave Dale isn’t the same sort of RoW is it?
    Bridleway vs Rupp/Boat?

    I haven’t (yet) seen bridleways ruined in quite this same manor.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    The bit about saying Pindale now, Cave Dale next is surely not true?
    Cave Dale isn’t the same sort of RoW is it?
    Bridleway vs Rupp/Boat?

    I think MTBers use “Cavedale” to mean this bit here, the actual gorge

    However I think “Cavedale” more generically refers to the whole track along the top of that area. The bridleway bit is part of the Limestone Way long distance path so there’s a possibility that it comes under DCC as well rather than individual landowners along the route.

    jimmy
    Full Member

    it was considered, with good intentions, that a recycled material would be better to form a good foundation, with a further layer of the locally-sourced limestone on top to complete the job.

    Is it just me, or isn’t there some sense in this from a sustainability perspective? Seems a bit precious to get worked up about an unfinished job. Effectively another chunk of a hillside somewhere nearby will need to be blown up, crushed and laid down as a thicker layer of limestone to appease those who saw the job halfway through. Nothing wrong with saving money in the name of sustainability. Maybe I’m missing something. I wouldn’t use Farrow and Ball paint to undercoat my walls, I’d use undercoat with a top layer of F&B (I wouldn’t really, I’m too tight, MsJimmy would tho).

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Tar from road planings will most likely leach into the surrounding ground, which makes it an utterly inappropriate surface for an SSSI, regardless or not of whether they dress it with limestone to make it look nice on top. The planings need to be disposed of in a safe way, which presumably costs more.

    It’s not a question of aesthetics, if it were, DCC would have just ignored people telling them to stop it, like they normally do.

    Gritstone
    Full Member

    As an employee of DCC not in Environmental Services I might add I can’t believe my colleagues are making such a such a mess of this.

    FYI
    I’ve just looked at DCC mapping and Pin Dale is on the Bradwell / Castleton parish boundary and hence ward boundary as well

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I wouldn’t use Farrow and Ball paint to undercoat my walls

    Doesn’t mean you’d “recycle” used engine oil for the job either.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    As an employee of DCC not in Environmental Services I might add I can’t believe my colleagues are making such a such a mess of this.

    Having seen the utter shambles that DCC have made of most of the off-road trails / roads in the area whenever they’ve touched them, I can easily believe they’ve made that much of a mess of this.

    Onzadog
    Free Member

    Is this still Peter White’s one man vendetta against the countryside, or is someone else in charge of this?

    thegeneralist
    Full Member

    Is it just me, or isn’t there some sense in this from a sustainability perspective? Seems a bit precious to get worked up about an unfinished job. Effectively another chunk of a hillside somewhere nearby will need to be blown up, crushed and laid down as a thicker layer of limestone to appease those who saw the job halfway through. Nothing wrong with saving money in the name of sustainability. Maybe I’m missing something. I wouldn’t use Farrow and Ball paint to undercoat my walls,

    The difference is that your undercoat will stay under the F&B coat. The whole surface and foundation of this will move and mix together. The water and traffic will mix it up so it just ends up as a semi grey semi black homogenous agglomeration.

    I’m also deeply sceptical as to whether they were actually planning a top coat of grey until theg were busted.

    On a tangent, am I right in saying this is the second thread on this?
    If so, why didn’t it get closed like all other duplicate threads are? Btw230 has made an excellent point on the other thread which needs following up.

    thegeneralist
    Full Member

    Or we could make this one a sticky 🤣😈

    steveh
    Full Member

    I’m pretty sure Peter White has retired recently.

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    On a tangent, am I right in saying this is the second thread on this?
    If so, why didn’t it get closed like all other duplicate threads are? Btw230 has made an excellent point on the other thread which needs following up.

    Well this one is a STW news story cross-posted onto the forum, the other one was a thread started at about the same time.

    Wibble89
    Free Member

    Tar from road planings will most likely leach into the surrounding ground

    Tar being something that has to be tested for during road works/demolition and disposed of correctly. Any road planings in recycled aggregate used these days will be bitumen based.

    danp63
    Full Member

    Exact same problem here in North Wales. Ruined one of the best bits of singletrack in the area.
    https://www.thebmc.co.uk/snowdonia-path-upgrades-or-unnecessary-motorways-through-the-hills

    robertajobb
    Full Member

    As someone who pays a lot of £££ of council tax in Derbyshire that is then repeatedly squandered, the incompetence of DCC is something only rivalled by the current occupant of No10 Downing Street.
    They are perpetually hopeless.

    I’ll give you a different example. The top of my road, about 500 yards away. On the Southern side of the Peaks. The road surface was mainly OK but with a few local pot holes, and 1 sections where sub-surface cracks were surfacing and actually needed cutting out and re-doing properly.
    So what do we get…
    1. Some (not all !) Pot holes patch filled.
    2. Then sections of the road re-surfaced properly. But only a few sections. And missed out 30 yards between 2 resurfaced sections – the bit that needed it most. It took more effort to do 2 sections than combine it as 1.

    Then… literally within 2 weeks of the proper new tarmac being laid… the morons chip-sealed it over. Leaving the road positively dangerous with all the loose chips at a T junction that was at the bottom of 2 fast downhill sections of road. And of course chip sealed over the non-repaired section that actually needed fixing in the 1st place.

    They need sacking for that level of incompetence.

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    Tar being something that has to be tested for during road works/demolition and disposed of correctly. Any road planings in recycled aggregate used these days will be bitumen based.

    Apologies. Presumably there would still be the risk of various shitty hydrocarbons leaching out of bitumen-based waste?

    The term ‘recycling’ seems to make the choice to dispose of this material sound a lot more benign than it actually is.

    jimmy
    Full Member

    Doesn’t mean you’d “recycle” used engine oil for the job either

    Fair enough, like the analogy.

    binman
    Full Member

    Tar being something that has to be tested for during road works/demolition and disposed of correctly. Any road planings in recycled aggregate used these days will be bitumen based.

    Apologies. Presumably there would still be the risk of various shitty hydrocarbons leaching out of bitumen-based waste?

    The term ‘recycling’ seems to make the choice to dispose of this material sound a lot more benign than it actually is.

    I think ‘has to be’ should not be confused with ‘is’, very much in the same way that sewage ‘has to be’ treated before being discharged into rivers / the sea.

    bandicoot
    Full Member

    Thanks for the link

    JonEdwards
    Free Member

    They need sacking for that level of incompetence

    It depends what you’re trying to be competent at. If your end aim is to have perfect long lasting road surfaces, yes it’s incomptence.

    On the other hand if the end aim is to provide regular repeat work for the contractors and the food chain of quarries, processing, transport etc they reside within; plus spend all your budget so you get the same again (or more) next year, then you’re being highly competent.

    Worth remembering that for us it’s pointless make-work, but for others its their livelihood. It’s not “right” but I can see the logic.

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