Update! Derbyshire County Council – halts ‘repairs’ at Pin Dale!

by 65

Derbyshire County Council. Utter those words in a local access forum and someone will shudder, cold chills will go round the room, and someone will call their therapist. Derbyshire’s efforts at Rushup Edge in the Peak District, have become something of an exemplar of how not to go about trail repairs – both in the sense of what you do on the ground, and how you go about consulting and working with local user groups.

Peak District MTB members have been valiantly attending Local Access Forums and responding to consultations in the hope of avoiding another Rushup Edge debacle, however today Peak District MTB is once again begging Derbyshire County Council to stop its ‘repair’ work on Pin Dale, plus other planned works in the area.

Following Local Access Forum meetings, Peak District MTB and other local users knew that repairs were planned, but thought that materials would be in keeping with the local environment – especially since the land is SSSI land and subject to Natural England supervision. You can decide for yourself how in keeping this is (pictures from Peak District MTB):

Mountain bikers enjoying the limestone of Pin Dale during a British Heart Foundation charity ride in 2018.

The new ‘repairs’.

Update, 19th January!

A Derbyshire County Council spokesperson said:

“We specified to the contractor that a limestone material be applied at the Pin Dale site and this was agreed with the Peak Park and the Peak District Local Access Forum.  Following this issue being raised with us we have spoken to the contractor who has explained that they had to fill some deep ruts during the work and they are due to finish overlaying the path tomorrow with a pure limestone material.”

If you see the finished result, we’d love to see how well all this rubble is covered up. And if you’re riding there in future, we’ll be very curious to see how well hidden the rubble stays beneath the limestone we’re told is going to cover it.

Another update, 19th January, a bit later in the day…

A Derbyshire County Council spokesperson said:

“Before work started we consulted and agreed with the Peak Park, Natural England and Historic England that a specific locally-sourced limestone would be used on the site.

“However, due to site conditions it was considered, with good intentions, that a recycled material would be better to form a good foundation, with a further layer of the locally-sourced limestone on top to complete the job.

“Following the concerns raised about the recycled material not being appropriate we are now looking at removing it and replacing it fully with locally sourced limestone, as was the original intention.

“We have halted work on site while we liaise with stakeholders about our proposal to remove the recycled material and will re-start work as soon as this plan has been agreed.”

Hopefully this is the start of a proper repair, and perhaps some more careful specification of works for contractors working in these sensitive areas. Well done everyone who sounded the alarm!

Original story continues…

A close up of the repair material. Where’s the limestone?

Peak District MTB says:

“Alarming work on Pin Dale by Derbyshire County Council

As we previously reported , Derbyshire County Council have planned maintenance work on multiple Peak District trails this winter and provided an indication of the nature of the work based their site visits with Peak District Local Access Forum (LAF), though further details from DCC were not forthcoming.

Extremely concerning work has now been done on the Pin Dale path near Hope, which seems to be significantly at odds with the original understanding of the work as using “locally sourced limestone hydraulically bound to suit the surrounding landscape”. Rather, the material appears to be a mix of tarmac road planing and general rubble from a brownfield site (though we are unsure if it is still being locally sourced).

We find it very odd that Natural England, Peak District National Park Authority and the LAF would have approved this material for use in a Site of Special Scientific Interest (SSSI), a protective designation which covers all of the Pin Dale site.

We understand similar works are about to begin at Cave Dale on the doorstep of the picturesque and popular tourist village of Castleton, which also a SSSI and unique limestone landscape.

Given the huge discrepancy between the planned work, that was apparently agreed and approved, and what has occurred on the ground. And given what is at stake: We hereby call on Derbyshire County Council to halt all further work on the ground to prevent further irreparable damage to paths in the Peak District’s protected landscapes. Until, and so that, the contractors’ work on the ground can be fully investigated and appraised, in conjunction with the relevant and properly qualified bodies, i.e. Natural England (responsible for SSSIs), Peak District National Park Authority and the Local Access Forum.”

What can you do?

You can write to Derbyshire County Council, any of its councillors, councillors on the Local Access Forum, or MPs for the area explaining why you think this work is inappropriate and should be halted.

Here’s a video showing how it used to be:

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A post shared by Ian Cranshaw (@iancran76)

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Hannah Dobson

Managing Editor

I came to Singletrack having decided there must be more to life than meetings. I like all bikes, but especially unusual ones. More than bikes, I like what bikes do. I think that they link people and places; that cycling creates a connection between us and our environment; bikes create communities; deliver freedom; bring joy; and improve fitness. They're environmentally friendly and create friendly environments. I try to write about all these things in the hope that others might discover the joy of bikes too.

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Home Forums Update! Derbyshire County Council – halts ‘repairs’ at Pin Dale!

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 65 total)
  • Update! Derbyshire County Council – halts ‘repairs’ at Pin Dale!
  • bfw
    Full Member

    🥲 amazing

    ThruntonThrasher
    Full Member

    I think there is some inconsistency here between Singletrack publishing an article about a council using the wrong material to repair a track in a National Park/SSSI and publishing a link in FGF 582 to a forum thread that actively encourages mountain bikers to ride ridgelines in the Lake District on paths they shouldn’t be on.

    pmurden
    Full Member

    Jesus are they at it again. Why do they not learn, that’s an awesome descent as is Cave Dale. For god’s sake.

    tuboflard
    Full Member

    I dread to think what Cave Dale might look like once they’ve had a go at it.

    white101
    Full Member

    So no native species trees in the woods or non native animals in the waterways are bad in our environment, but dumping tons of former house brick/motorway tarmac backfill is just fine?

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    Worst thing is they will have paid someone to bring in that crap and dump it there 🙁

    munrobiker
    Free Member

    I think there is some inconsistency here between Singletrack publishing an article about a council using the wrong material to repair a track in a National Park/SSSI and publishing a link in FGF 582 to a forum thread that actively encourages mountain bikers to ride ridgelines in the Lake District on paths they shouldn’t be on

    Correction – that an outdated law says taking a bike on those trails is a civil offence, not that they shouldn’t be there or that it’s illegal. And since the bikes being on the trails makes no difference whatsoever, it’s massively different to DCC dumping tonnes of unsightly demolition waste on a limestone trail, changing the entire atmosphere of the place for decades to come.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    I think there is some inconsistency here

    Crossing land and dumping material are not the same thing, are they.

    I mean, at Pindale you couldn’t be any closer to a supply of appropriate limestone material to smooth out that track, if that’s what you needed to do for access.

    BadlyWiredDog
    Full Member

    it’s massively different to DCC dumping tonnes of unsightly demolition waste on a limestone trail, changing the entire atmosphere of the place for decades to come.

    The irony of all this being that the ‘repairs’ will last a couple of years at best before being torn apart by a combination of water damage and use, as per Chapel Gate’s endless disintegration. A depressing waste of council money and my DCC council taxes.

    I think both those tracks are part of the High Peak constituency, so I’ll be e-mailing Robert Largan directly and I’d suggest other ST High Peak locals maybe do the same. He’s actually quite responsive on local issues, not least because he’s a few hundred swing votes away from losing his seat at the next election: robert.largan.mp@parliament.uk

    Richie_B
    Full Member

    Does anyone know how to find which county council division (ward) you are in? I suspect i’m in Derwent Valley but that could be anywhere between Yorkshire Bridge & Shelton Lock. The DCC website is impenetrable a map or an option to enter a post code and get a simple answer would be good.

    ThruntonThrasher
    Full Member

    @Munro Biker

    an outdated law says taking a bike on those trails is a civil offence

    ……outdated in your opinion

    And since the bikes being on the trails makes no difference whatsoever

    Really? Have you seen some of the places you have been encouraging people to ride recently?

    munrobiker
    Free Member

    ……outdated in your opinion

    Whether that’s my opinion or not, the fact that it’s a civil offence means the only person who can say you should or should not take a bike on them is the landowner.

    Really?

    Yes. There’s a good set of scientific studies (Wilson and Seney, 1994 – Hooves and Feet Erode More Than Wheels; Chiu and Kriworken – No significant difference between hiking and biking trail wear; Goeft and Alder – Erosion trends not clear; Crockett, 1986 – Minimal change from repeated bicycle passage) that show that bikes either do no more or in some cases less damage than other trail users. It looks different, but it’s not worse. In fact, I only know of one study which says otherwise and that was only an undergraduate dissertation.

    Have you seen some of the places you have been encouraging people to ride recently?

    Yep, they were bloody good fun and in as good a condition as they ever were. Better than, for example, Rushup Edge and now Pindale after DCC dumped a load of stuff on them.

    only1mikey
    Full Member

    Looks like recycled 6F2 backfill material, but with a very high ratio of organic material.

    thegeneralist
    Free Member

    Jesus are they at it again. Why do they not learn, that’s an awesome descent

    Pindale…. awesome descent?

    I’m intrigued. I reckon it was an awesome climb about 9 years ago when it was rough limestone, but had never considered it as an awesome descent. Is this recently or many many years ago?

    rickmeister
    Full Member

    With the greatest respect Munrobiker, 1986 and 1994 are pretty old and the landscape of users and numbers has moved on a bit.

    Are there any more recent studies?

    scc999
    Full Member

    Email sent to my local councilor and my MP Robert Largan.

    If you are local PLEASE make your voice heard.

    Si

    spawnofyorkshire
    Full Member

    @rickmeister
    Fill your boots – there’s a few here to start with.
    https://www.connectedpapers.com/main/124173adcc457610d5eb5e66955472d4036f2709/EROSIONAL-IMPACT-OF-HIKERS%2C-HORSES%2C-MOTORCYCLES%2C-AND-OFF%20ROAD-BICYCLES-ON-MOUNTAIN-TRAILS-IN-MONTANA/graph
    A quick skim through the abstracts supports Munrobikers general summation in quite a few papers, and a couple of others put the maintenance and use of materials as more important than who or what is in contact with the trail surface (shoes/tyres/hooves)

    sofaboy73
    Free Member

    I think both those tracks are part of the High Peak constituency, so I’ll be e-mailing Robert Largan directly and I’d suggest other ST High Peak locals maybe do the same. He’s actually quite responsive on local issues, not least because he’s a few hundred swing votes away from losing his seat at the next election: robert.largan.mp@parliament.uk

    chapel gate & rushup are deff in the high peak, i think pindale and cavedale just sneak in, but the constituency boundary for derbyshire dales runs pretty close to castleton iirc.

    Lagan is my local MP as well so will send an e-mail, however i know that there has been a long and ongoing campign from the likes of PeakdistrictMTB etc, many of which have been wel thought out and considered opinions – has anyone got an overview of the key talking points to cherry pick from? – other than stop ruining all the bridleways in the Peak and horse riders don’t like it either!

    what i don’t get is how DCC get it so wrong when there are some good examples of restorative works in the same area to take inspiration from – roychs clough and cut gate spring to mind

    LongboardSi
    Free Member

    it’ll be tarmac liek Bamford clough soon… TBF, Pindale is probably a better candidate for tarmac than Bamford clough ever would be.

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    what i don’t get is how DCC get it so wrong when there are some good examples of restorative works in the same area to take inspiration from – roychs clough and cut gate spring to mind

    First and foremost, cost. ^^that is cheap, the works at cutgate and roychs are not.

    Also part of me thinks they haven’t got it wrong but very right*. The sort of work they’ve done here, at rushup and elsewhere has the very distinct impact of making the tracks and area in general less appealing for visitors of just about all outdoorsy persuasions (baring blasting feathered things).
    There are a lot of people who do vote in that area, who do write moaning letters to the council, local paper and so on who don’t want us there, not on bikes, not on horses nor foot and not in our cars. Mainly just not getting in their way and generally making it look untidy.
    It’s really not heard to see that if the jobs of the people signing off on this sort of vandalism are beholden to people who couldn’t care less about the works being done, let alone done in tune with their surroundings and very much could care less about visitors getting in their way, or noticing the raptors caught in those corvid traps and so on, that the “right” answer might be to do this. I’d like to be wrong but it really does feel like this sort of stuff is done precisely because it’s bad and makes the nimbys happy.

    My post from the other thread this morning since we’ve separated…

    Daft question but isn’t pindale actually a road? I always assumed it to be when I’ve ridden up it.

    That is a terrible mess though and I can’t see they got agreement from Nat England given the SSI etc. That to me looks very much like they got agreement on (a) did (b) – easier to seek forgiveness than permission as it were.

    Who enforces planning against the council?

    (That said, if it’s from the road down to the quarry is it actually the council’s planned maintenance or rather the new owners of the quarry have done that?)

    I really do hope they don’t do anything like that to cave dale. Though as well as being a bw and definitely not a road that’s effectively a stream bed so can’t see the above being possible whether DCC wants to or not.

    *The part which thinks, depressingly, that government, even with the current bunch, is actually better nearer the top.

    funkrodent
    Full Member

    @thruntonthrasher

    There was a good thread re access rights on the back of some research done buy a guy from cycling UK.

    The nub of it was that the whole “It is illegal for a cyclist to ride on a designated footpath” is only correct if there is a local law in place that specifically bans this from happening. Otherwise it is a matter for the landowner and he/she only has course to any action if it can be proved that usage of said footpath is causing a nuisance or impediment.

    From the thread it became apparent that some on here were confusing footpaths with pavements. A very different scenario which is (as I understand it) covered by the Law.

    In summary then, unless there is a specific local bye-law in place, then bikes have as much right to be on footpaths as walkers do.

    thepodge
    Free Member

    In summary then, unless there is a specific local bye-law in place, then bikes have as much right to be on footpaths as walkers do.

    False… Kind of. Bikes are not illegal on footpaths but neither do they have a right.

    Basically if it’s a footpath and you’re on foot then when asked to leave you do not have to because you have a right to use it. If it’s a footpath and you’re on a bike and are asked to leave then you must do so because you do not have a right to use it.

    There’s all sorts of clauses and arguments and superseding local laws but that’s the bare bones of it.

    Oh and also there’s a case in law that says cyclists may use the pavement if not doing so would endanger their lives. So riding on the pavement is both illegal and acceptable.

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    So riding on the pavement is both illegal and acceptable

    A bit like a work party then?

    samhay
    Free Member

    I think Pindale is in the Bakewll electorate.
    https://observatory.derbyshire.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/reports/maps/IMD_maps_by_ED/H03_Chapel_and_Hope_Valley.pdf

    Cave Dale is in High Peak and Largan has a surgery at noon on Friday in Glossop if anyone wants to pop down and ask for ‘help and advice’.
    https://www.robertlargan.co.uk/events/glossop-advice-surgery-0
    He’s generally pretty good at responding to email, so I’ll be taking that route.

    billybuxton
    Full Member

    Is this is Derbyshire County Council “fly tipping” their own waste tailings from the summer road surfacing programme. Cheaper than land fill disposal or providing material in keeping with the surroundings.

    grum
    Free Member

    a forum thread that actively encourages mountain bikers to ride ridgelines in the Lake District on paths they shouldn’t be on.

    Well the more they make bridleways/byways etc into horrible unsympathetic roads the more we are going to want to ride ridgelines/footpaths etc so maybe they should stop.

    Has to be said it didn’t look super-exciting to start with but it’s difficult to imagine how they thought what they have done is in keeping or worthwhile.

    Drac
    Full Member

    Really? Have you seen some of the places you have been encouraging people to ride recently?

    Such as Thrunton?

    b230ftw
    Free Member

    Give it a rest with the access rights stuff. If you want to argue about it start another thread.

    rickmeister
    Full Member

    spawnofyorkshire

    Slight thread diversion but thanks. I’ll pass that link across to our local trail team here in Black Forest, Germany. Maybe there are some articles to help us legally ride more than 2m fire roads in Baden – Wurtemburg.

    spoonmeister
    Free Member

    Cave Dale? Guess I’ll have to make an effort to get there before it’s ruined repaired.

    MrAgreeable
    Full Member

    Anyone else find it strange that if you live in a National Park, you need to get permission to change the roof on your shed, yet decisions like this seem to get through with zero consideration of the aesthetic and historic impact?

    stwhannah
    Full Member

    Update just in from Derbyshire County Council:

    A Derbyshire County Council spokesperson said: “We specified to the contractor that a limestone material be applied at the Pin Dale site and this was agreed with the Peak Park and the Peak District Local Access Forum. Following this issue being raised with us we have spoken to the contractor who has explained that they had to fill some deep ruts during the work and they are due to finish overlaying the path tomorrow with a pure limestone material.”

    thepodge
    Free Member

    Like sprinkling glitter on a turd.

    kelvin
    Full Member

    So the work was contracted by DCC… this is all their choice of action, not a land owner?

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    So the work was contracted by DCC… this is all their choice of action, not a land owner?

    AFAIK, as it’s a “road”, it comes under DCC’s control, not the landowner. The landowner is only obliged to keep a RoW (footpath or bridleway) clear, I don’t think they can maintain a “road”. Someone with more knowledge of access rights might need to confirm that – I’m not sure what the exact status of trails like that are now as I know they got rid of the confusing RUPP and BOAT designations.

    stwhannah
    Full Member

    And another update! I think this is a win for democracy, activism, contacting your councillor and generally making a fuss. Well done everyone!

    A Derbyshire County Council spokesperson said: “Before work started we consulted and agreed with the Peak Park, Natural England and Historic England that a specific locally-sourced limestone would be used on the site.
    “However, due to site conditions it was considered, with good intentions, that a recycled material would be better to form a good foundation, with a further layer of the locally-sourced limestone on top to complete the job.
    “Following the concerns raised about the recycled material not being appropriate we are now looking at removing it and replacing it fully with locally sourced limestone, as was the original intention.
    “We have halted work on site while we liaise with stakeholders about our proposal to remove the recycled material and will re-start work as soon as this plan has been agreed.”

    martinhutch
    Full Member

    with good intentions

    Not just trying to save cash by dumping inappropriate, polluting and possibly illegal waste materials and hoping nobody would notice, then?

    big_n_daft
    Free Member

    Well done to everyone who put pressure on DCC

    pmurden
    Full Member

    I’ve just had this via email from DCC;

    Good Afternoon,

    Thank you for contacting Derbyshire County Council.

    Thank you for your email on the work carried out recently at Pin Dale.

    Before work started we consulted and agreed with the Peak Park, Natural England and Historic England that a specific locally-sourced limestone would be used on the site.

    However, due to site conditions it was considered, with good intentions, that a recycled material would be better to form a good foundation, with a further layer of the locally-sourced limestone on top to complete the job.

    Following the concerns raised about the recycled material not being appropriate we are now looking at removing it and replacing it fully with locally sourced limestone, as was the original intention. We have halted work on site while we liaise with stakeholders about our proposal to remove the recycled material and will re-start work as soon as this plan has been agreed.

    I hope that this will alleviate your concerns.

    18bikes
    Full Member

    Thanks Hannah (and everyone who’s got involved!) – I’m glad to see that a bit of pressure from us all has achieved something, of sorts. I still think we’re a long way from getting DCC to act differently, but let’s keep it up.

    I had the same email, which conveniently failed to mention anything of Cave Dale, which is more of a worry for me. I’ve responded, asking if there may be a different approach. We’ll see..

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 65 total)

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