Just found out they have Defibrilaters in the coffee rooms here...
... now what could I do with one of those?
Would defibing a work colleagues backside kill him or just be funny?
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Will 240V kill you?
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Posted 2 years ago #
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If it's an AED (probably) it won't do anything.
They only shock if they can find a shockable heart rhythm and to do that the pads need to be on the right place.
Posted 2 years ago # -
"As a young lad I pee'd on a fence, it was electric, I got a hell of a shock through ma willy. Been trying to recreate that feeling for the last 40 years!"
Posted 2 years ago # -
UncleFred - What are the chances of that link being worksafe?
Posted 2 years ago # -
coffeeking - I assume the RCDs are the little trippy switches in what I used to call a fuse box. I have had the 240V tingle a couple of times without tripping stuff.
Yup, but not all places have RCDs. My rented flat only has it on some consumer-facing circuits!
Thought its the Amps that do the damage.
See above, yup
derek_starship
Yup, but generally if you know what you're doing and limit the risks it's not so bad - I know of a couple of people who worked with 200A supplies day in day out (industrial usage) who used a brush with the backs of their hands to test for live, dozens of times a day. I'd not advise people to try it though!
Posted 2 years ago # -
I was getting one of the smoke alarms (mains powered ones) down to replace the back up battery, I was only "fairly sure" the alarm was isolated and couldn't really see what I was doing but was aware of exposed electrics inside.
It was the kitchen one and my wife accidentally knocked over the 5kg solid oak chopping board that was leaning against the back wall on the work top. The ensuing bang as I removed the device caused me to, without a doubt, come the closest I've ever come to literally shitting myself.
Just thought I'd share
Posted 2 years ago # -
back when i was a small boy i thought how much faster would my train set go if i removed the 12v transformer and just wired the track straight to the mains. so using a pair of nail clippers i cut the wire off the transformer (while still pluged in) that went fine, striped off the insulation , then i grasped the live wire and thats when it all went wrong, several seconds of bouncing around around unable to let go of the wire followed by dad running in and pulling me free shocking himself in the process. so in answer to your question does 240v kill nah
Posted 2 years ago # -
1) Yes 240V can kill - I've lost colleagues to it - but not always.
2) The lowest voltage that has been documented (according to the initial safety training at the electrical distribution company I work for - about 17 years ago) to electrocute someone was a torch battery at about 20 volts or so - but they were in an odd evironment at the time (cleaning a mash tun if I recall)
3) National Grid don't supply 240 volts - they tend to stick to 275kV or 400kV with connections to distribution companies at 132kV, 33kV or 66kV.
4) You might get away with playing with the 240V system - plenty do - but then again you might not.Posted 2 years ago # -
This is sounding a bit more serious than I thought. I have lost count of the number of times I have had 240V shock over the years.
We used to use it as a bravery test to be in my gang at primary school and I once tried to cauterise a cut using the flex from a lamp with the lamp cut off and the two wires held close togetehr over the cut. I should point out that I was a little pissed at the time and had just knocked over and smashed my mums glass lamp.
Posted 2 years ago # -
WCA - You personally will get away with it because Karma's purpose for you is to allow you to do dangerous, amusingly almost catastrophic, or down right stupid things and then get you to write them up on here for the enjoyment of us mere mortals who would be killed by your exploits.
I know this because I've see a) your user name (there's a clue there) and b) some of your previous posts.You'll probably get away with playing with 240V most of the time - but not all of it, and you never know which time it is that you've just got something a bit different and you pay for it. I wouldn't recommend it.
There have also been a number of instances where people got across the 33kV or 66kV and survived - not necessarily intact or fully functional, but alive. I definitely wouldn't recommend that.
Don't play with electricity, boys and girls. It's not big or clever and it can be a bit upsetting clearing the mess up afterwards - not that I do that in my nice safe office job.
Posted 2 years ago # -
even small voltages can kill as they can throw your heart out of sink, 240 even in small bursts will kill some people
Posted 2 years ago # -
One of my colleagues knows someone who is partly paralysed down one side. His dad had the cover off the washing machine to work on it when he was a kid. He picked up a screwdriver and poked it into the machine when his dad left the room to get another tool and received a shock.
Posted 2 years ago # -
240v killed my mate Chris
He'd fixed his girlfriend's washing machine, plugged it in to check, all good, realised he'd left screwdriver in the machine reached in to get it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
WorldClassAccident - Member
UncleFred - What are the chances of that link being worksafe?
Perfectly safe for work, if you work in a "Private Shop"
Posted 2 years ago # -
Mmm, so 240v can kill you... Is there any way of guaranteeing it will kill you?
Posted 2 years ago # -
50mA will kill you. 30mA might well do so.
As others have said - its all down to the current (amps). Dry skin is an alright (I use the term loosely) insulator - plenty of resistance, so not much current flow (assuming you're acting as an earth path). You'll probably get away with it. Probably.
Wet or sweaty skin (nerves from working on live electrics maybe?) has a low resistance, so you get a lot of current flow. Bang, you're dead.
If you manage to connect yourself in series with another electric load that's drawing current - you're definitely dead.
A fuse or an MCB protects against overcurrent. If you have a 13A fuse in your plug, by the time it blows, you'll probably be dead (remember 50mA = 0.05A). An RCD measures the difference in current in the live and neutral cores. If they differ by more than the "trip" value, they trip.
I've had a few shocks in my time (I work as a lighting technician). I've had yet more near misses. I could happily live the rest of my life without any more of either
Posted 2 years ago # -
anyway, your very unlikely to come across a 240v supply in the UK, seeing as mains is 230. oh the joys of learning this stuff presently.
Posted 2 years ago # -
UK mains may now be 'officially' 230v, but due to the tolerance band, you'll still see 240v and more at the socket. I'm currently retraining to be a spark so keep up the bodging chaps. Incompetent DIY'ers should keep me in work for years if they can manage to stay alive long enough.
The flicky switches in your consumer unit are likely to be MCBs, not RCDs, so are designed to protect the wiring installation, not you. RCD protection is a relatively recent thing and many consumer units won't have any fitted. If you have RCD protection (either RCCB or RCBO devices - should say on the front) and they aren't tripping when you give yourself a pisser then you have a problem.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I really dont understand why people WHO HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT ELECTRICITY seem to think that it is ok to work with it. Its a seriously dangerous force. It isnt just your life you are putting at risk, but family and anyone who comes to your house. Why do you think that the electrical instalaton industry is so tightly regulated? I didnt do a 4 year apprenticeship for nothing.
230v can and often does kill. It can also cause fires and explosions. Its not worth the risk and i would say you have been lucky so far.
Posted 2 years ago # -
As said above 240V can and does kill, fact.
I have been told from a reliable source that 60V DC has the capacity to kill as well. Sparky pal of mine told me once that a 13A fuse by the time it blows could be passing 2 or 3 or 4 times that current, and you are fried by the time it does.
I also heard on a static electricity course that 1 joule of electricty in the wrong place on your heart can stop it, that is 1W for 1sec, which is a very small amount of electricity. Static from clothes for example is 1000's of V but very low current so its harmless. Static discharge from a large helicopter grounding however can kill you.
So dont be silly and get a sparky in
Posted 2 years ago # -
a 13A fuse by the time it blows could be passing 2 or 3 or 4 times that current, and you are fried by the time it does.
Your sparky friend is talking a mild amount of bollocks. You'd be fried without the fuse necessarily blowing at all. 50mA will kill you. That's 0.05A. 0.05A won't blow a 13A fuse.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Dudie - you are right that fuse may not blow, but he is not talking bollocks as you put it, a fuse will pass current a number of times higher than its nominal rating before it blows.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Quite correct. Not disputing that. The insinuation was that you would be fried because of the fuse not blowing at 13A. All I am saying is that you would be fried regardless - you would be dead long before the current got anywhere near level required to blow the fuse. Must dash, got to swot up on me live testing homework!
Posted 2 years ago # -
's fair enuf....
Posted 2 years ago # -
I saw a guy die at a gig. He was a guitarist and as they were tuning up he grabbed the mike stand, did a little shaky dance and fell over, dead.
Turns out he had got fed up with the fuse in the amp blowing so decided to use a paper clip instead.
Posted 2 years ago # -
ive seen peuple use cut down, then soldered on nails as 'fuses' on a lighting circuit
Posted 2 years ago # -
cullen-bay - Member
anyway, your very unlikely to come across a 240v supply in the UK, seeing as mains is 230. oh the joys of learning this stuff presently.
I like that one.
Sorry to do this but when the statutory mains voltage at LV single phase changed from 240V +/-6% to 230V +10%/-6%, what do you think the electricity companies did? Go out and change the voltage at every substation (easier at the primaries but still a git)? Or work out that 240v +6% and 230V +10% are virtually identical and leave well alone? Could it even be that this is why the tolerance band chosen is the one it is? You got it.
And by the way we design to be as close to the upper limit as possible at no load, so that as the load comes on and the voltage drops we have as much room to play with as possible. Saves on copper / aluminium and means you the great British public pay slightly less distribution charges on your electricity bills.
Posted 2 years ago # -
WCA...that downstairs light, try the same trick again but touching an earthed bit of plumbing...you'll get a much bigger bang! This is why its no longer normal practise to earth the kitchen sink as its quite likely you will drop a kettle or electric whisk into the water...the shock will be less severe if the sink is unearthed. Also why plumbing and elecrics are earthed together in bathrooms, so everything is at the same potential. A big plus point for push fit plastic plumbing
Posted 2 years ago # -
Yeah, yeah, yeah, all very interesting stuff: real men talking about really manly 'lectric and all that but no one's actually told me how to guarantee death using the 230/240/250/whatever volts that my house has got.
Does dropping a toaster into a bath really work one hundred percent of the time???
Posted 2 years ago # -
Cut the skin on one thigh and the opposite shoulder. Apply phase to one and neutral to the other, both into the cuts.
Please do not do this.
Posted 2 years ago # -
No no no, that sounds painful! I'm looking for a quick 'n' easy way out that can be done at home with minimal preparation. Does electrocution involve lots of pain and thrashing about? Or is it pretty instant?
Thanks for your input though!
Posted 2 years ago # -
I zapped myself with the mains once whilst working live. I struggled to pull my hand off the wire and the flow went right through my chest ,weird feeling when it hits your heart .
My arm took days to go back to normal what with all the tingling
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've known people killed not just by the 240vac, but the stuff they've fallen on to. Ffs people, be careful.
Posted 2 years ago # -
yeah, i was working at a site, and another electrician (honest) f'ed up. result was a coms engineer grabbed hold of a piece of metal conduit at 230v, 32 amps (yes the amps are the really dangerous part). He was on load of metal racking. Result was he was thrown about 12 foot onto the concrete below. Luckily he was just bruised and shaken. His mate started on me, thought he was going to go for me but some other people calmed him down. Lets just sy it was not a good experience for anyone. Does no one remember that incident with the mp's daughter who died frm a shock in the kitchen. That was more or less what sparked off this whole 17th edition thing i think.
Posted 2 years ago # -
People say amps kill because of the I squared R losses as the current goes through your body, but there are other ways to die.
If your lucky a few milliamps (50 has been quoted on here and I'm not going to argue with that) interfere with your nervous system - heart attack - dead. That's really the voltage signal, which maps onto your natural electrical system fairly well, killing you.
Next up the shock causes trips and falls - and the fall kills you.
A weird classic is the man who jumps on to an overhead line and grabs one of the conductors - but he isn't making a circuit, possibly even the instantaneous protection that they have on that kind of circuit kills the volts, so he just hangs there until his strength gives out and he falls with predictable consequences. Possibly apocryphal that one.
Getting into the nasty ones, the current cooks your flesh - ever seen a bit of meat that's been in the microwave too long? - and you die.
Worse maybe you survive initially but the shock from the burns kills you within a day or two.
But that's better than the cooked flesh slowly going off inside you with the accompanying blood poisoning.
Of course that doesn't consider the various problems caused by electrical flash or fire.If there are any doctors out there they may wish to correct me on the details.
For everyone else I think it may be time to close this thread.
Don't play with it if you don't know what you're doing - and if you do know what you're doing, play carefully.
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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