if they are not peaceful

What do you mean “if” ?

The EDL’s leader until yesterday claims that he is ending all involvement with the organisation because of the violence.

He says that he has left the EDL because of the “need to counter Islamist ideology not with violence but with better, democratic ideas”

The EDL only organises street demos, it doesn’t do anything else. When its former leader talks of violence associated with the EDL he is talking about EDL demonstrations.

There’s no “ifs” about it.

“We” didn’t “give” anybody in Northern Ireland power. Their electorate did that. In democratic elections. Not sure why you’ve tried to shoehorn your opinion on that into this thread twice. They’re not related. But your incorrect statement bears correction all the same.

does that mean I am on your list for the show trials and summary execution on the day of the revolution Ernesto?

Why are you calling him Ernesto? If you’re going to insult someone at least use fitting insults.

“The black is indolent and a dreamer; spending his meager wage on frivolity or drink” – Ernesto “Che” Guevara

I don’t think that represents the views of Ernie, do you?

Tom
I suggest you ask Ernie to dig out the thread where he explains the origin of his online name

Deadly
What was all the fuss about the Good Friday Agreement?

Ernie
If they are all violent they should be policed as such

So the EDL leader until a couple of days ago characterises EDL demonstrations as violent, as indeed most people do, and you dispute that.

That’s fantastic ! 🙂

Deadly
What was all the fuss about the Good Friday Agreement?

Yeah, I know all about that. Who votes them in?

Anyway, let’s try and stick to the point rather than diverting the argument eh?

I suggest you ask Ernie to dig out the thread where he explains the origin of his online name

I suggest you take on board their question/point
He may have a nom de plume with links to Che but it does not mean he agrees with everything he ever said/did. I am not sure why, when someone gave you a good example, you are struggling with this rather simple concept or labouring this rather weak ad hom.

I think there are aspects of the anti fascists that are distasteful or equally keen on direct confrontation. However if you think fascism can be beaten with some tutting and pamphlet you are very much mistaken. the same may be true of revolutionary communism or extremist Islam. Extremists tend to not listen to rational debate , despite this I am trying to do it with you 😉

Where we draw the line on direct action/violence criminality is complex and hard to quantify. I doubt a debate with big n daft will bring any clarity to this; we will see a lack of respect on both sides though.

Surely people living up to their screen name is the one argument that big n daft has the upper hand in..?

Although big n daft racist wally might be more appropriate

weak ad hom

Oooh the ironing!

Extremists are defeated by education, not street violence no matter how “just” your cause is

I guess it’s easier to launch another weak attack rather than look at your own behaviour or offer a defence of your goading behaviour.

Extremists are defeated by education

Can you illustrate that with a historical example?

US Spending on education increases in an attempt to defeat extremism:

Extremists are maybe defeated by education

Education may help combat extremism but I think it’s educating the population limiting the recruiting grounds for extremists rather than chucking a load of text books at actual extremists.

but I’m just guessing here

Oooh the ironing!

Extremists are defeated by education, not street violence no matter how “just” your cause is

But you wouldn’t want to ‘defeat’ the extremist EDL anyway would you?

I’m not sure that comparisons with Adams and McGuiness are entirely irrelevant here – let’s look at the impact of change – regardless of whether you’re comfortable with a former IRA commander being in a position of power, overall the situation for people living in Northern Ireland is much, much better than it was a couple of decades ago, and to get from there to here a lot of people have had to shift their positions an awful lot, on all sides. That’s how it works in the real world.

So, as for Tommy the hooligan, what he’s done this week is a good, positive thing, regardless of his motivation. A former EDL leader denounces violent thuggery and racist / Nazi messages. How can that be anything other than a good thing? Is it less of a good thing because of other things he’s done and said previously? No, it’s still a good thing, and I’m glad it has happened.

edlong – i suppose it depend if he’s sincere or just trying to influence a possible judicial hearing that someone alluded to earlier in this thread.

Isn’t it a bit early to call?

Sinn Fein were always a political party with a power base that would vote for them
The EDL are a protest group with no electoral mandate and no wider political aims that i am aware of so they are not identical
I agree it appears, at present, that the rejection of violence and intimidation by him is a good thing. He now has to walk the walk and prove it was heartfelt rather than expedient

Given his past ,ignoring EDL activity, he must have had one hell of an epiphany.

edlong – i suppose it depend if he’s sincere or just trying to influence a possible judicial hearing that someone alluded to earlier in this thread.

I can see why you say that, but I’m not sure I’d agree that it does. In my view, if something good is done, it is still a good thing even if it was done for a bad reason. So, in this case, if it is Tommy trying to present as a reformed character for his own personal benefit, I don’t think that detracts from the good that comes from the statements that he’s made.

Unless of course it’s all negated when he gets off in court, emerges triumphant and says “I was only kidding lads, lets go off and celebrate by burning a mosque down” in which case it would pretty much be a net bad.

But you wouldn’t want to ‘defeat’ the extremist EDL anyway would you?

?
do I think that organisations that organise violent activities, intimidate communities and undertake other illegal activities have a place in society? NO, as the former leader has stated this is what was happening at EDL marches then it’s pretty obvious from my posts above that I don’t support them, nor do I support their political ideology

do I support the right of people to have different view from myself and if they feel the need to undertake peaceful lawful protest? YES

do I support people who disagree with a demonstration, counter demonstrating? YES

do I think people should be demonstrating or counter demonstrating in a violent manner? NO, let the police deal with the violence in accordance with the law

Sinn Fein were always a political party with a power base that would vote for them
The EDL are a protest group with no electoral mandate and no wider political aims that i am aware of so they are not identical

not identical but there are parallels. I have a distaste of any of the former paramilitaries being in power in NI

I agree it appears, at present, that the rejection of violence and intimidation by him is a good thing. He now has to walk the walk and prove it was heartfelt rather than expedient

Given his past ,ignoring EDL activity, he must have had one hell of an epiphany

I agree, it may have been the result of “education” as he met and grew to understand the British Muslim community as part of a TV documentary 😀