So if I disagree with something my neighbour believes (or my skewed idea of what he believes) I’m being forced to live alongside him?

No no, you’re racist. Unless he’s the same skin colour…

Read the Qua’rn if you wish to know.

The Bible is full of some pretty nasty stuff too – that doesn’t mean every Christian believes every word in it.

So which bit of that isn’t racist?

Islam is a faith that crosses the boundaries of race and as such is hard to define within that context. It has both people who are “born” into the faith in many countries and converts often from white western backgrounds.

Islam itself has more than one interpretation which coupled with old (potentially pre-Islam) sectarian divisions leads Muslims to kill Muslim’s in horrific numbers (currently 1000/ mth in Iraq currently)

What makes you think I agree with Christianity?

And what makes you think I disagree with Islam?

You STWers are quick to jump down peoples throats.

The Bible is full of some pretty nasty stuff too – that doesn’t mean every Christian believes every word in it.

thank goodness for the Church of England 😉

Maybe they don’t agree with what the religion stands for/preaches?

I have some issues with aspects of Islam. That wouldn’t make me want to hang out with a bunch of racist football hooligans though.

And what makes you think I disagree with Islam?

Maybe something to do with going on an EDL rally?

Read the Qua’rn if you wish to know.

As an EDL supporter should you really be encouraging people to read the Quran ?

You seem to be using what you think the Qu’ran says to back up the EDL’s statement that Islam is an oppressive religion that seeks to dominate others.

Well said grum, Which is why I went to a demo like I stated, with an open head to see what it was all about and realised it’s not for me.

Nick Cohen seems to be on the same page as the above EDL quote – how odd – see here

Considering I’ve read the Qua’rn, It’s not a case of what I think it says. And not just one version of it.

Also, I said I agree with certain points the EDL are trying to address, Not all of them and which ones.

That wouldn’t make me want to hang out with a bunch of racist football hooligans though

me neither, but sometimes you have to recognise some people do agree with him, we have Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness in political office, if we can cope with that then former EDL leaders with a history of violence look a bit Sunday School really

EDL leaders with a history of violence

FFS big and daft, you started off claiming that the EDL attracts racists and Nazis, and now you claim that their leaders have “a history of violence” !!!!

They sound a right nasty bunch.

You seem to be using what you think the Qu’ran says to back up the EDL’s statement that Islam is an oppressive religion that seeks to dominate others

Was Christopher Hitchens just a very articulate racist then? Or did he have a point.

Anyway so as not to tar all muslims with the same brush, Islamism fulfils those criteria quite easily and it happens to be a rather popular ideology at the minute.

Also, I get the feeling if I started making offensive jokes on here about 7th day adventists or mormons….I’d get away with it….but if I drew a picture of mohhamed and posted it on here I’d be torn a new arsehole by a select few members and then subsequently be banned for breaching the forums peace.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CGFMwtJTyE[/video]

Tom_W1987 – Member
Was Christopher Hitchens just a very articulate racist then? Or did he have a point.

Could you be more specific?

Anyway so as not to tar all muslims with the same brush, Islamism fulfils those criteria quite easily and it happens to be a rather popular ideology at the minute.

Compared to ‘mainstream’ Islam? Rubbish, it’s about as representative of Muslims as the Westboro Baptist Church is of Christians.

Also, I get the feeling if I started making offensive jokes on here about 7th day adventists or mormons….I’d get away with it….but if I drew a picture of mohhamed and posted it on here I’d be torn a new arsehole by a select few members and then subsequently be banned for breaching the forums peace.

Rubbish.

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06jF1EG8o-Q[/video]

Would love to hear your 7th Day Adventist joke, seems to be a dearth of them out there…

Some people just love a good ruck and will agree with anything that lets them have one.
Google Matty Blagger. Former racist thug who became an anti racist thug and thus became the darling of The N M E.

I think this song articulates everything I’ve thought about religion and gods;

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5SnOKf7zwc[/video]

Re: EDL/Tommy Lennon – It’s all just fear of ‘the other’ tribalism. His views won’t change, just the way he chooses to express them.

At least he has the right of freedom of expression, which is more than can be said of most ‘Muslim’ countries…

All religion is ridiculous, Islam is just way more ridiculous than all the others. When we were on holiday in Egypt, the Muslim men could go swimming like the rest of us, the women had to wear a head to toe bodysuit. The local women are not allowed to come into contact with tourists in any. Why? What will happen if they do? We didn’t see one Egyptian woman in the two weeks we were there. I wonder what Emmeline Pankhurst would make of it all…

Rant over…

You STWers are quick to jump down peoples throats.

you’re mixing your metaphors there. On STW we jump to conclusions and ram our message down your throat. jumping down your throat sounds unhygienic

Bloke with a history of violence sets up a organisation which is borderline if not out and out racist, loads of violent racist people sign up, fights ensue. Bloke now leaves citing “it’s all a bit too violent and racisty for me”.

Hmm, I is dubious. He was on breakfast telly this morning, dunno which channel, was tempted to see what he was saying but I had an appointment with some dark woodsy singletrack.

If the meeeeja stopped giving a pedestal to these unrepresentative shouty idiots (eg Robinson, Choudary) they’d fade into lonely insignificance a lot quicker. But they love it.

Compared to ‘mainstream’ Islam? Rubbish, it’s about as representative of Muslims as the Westboro Baptist Church is of Christians.

Sadly I’m not really sure that’s true. The Saudis have spent millions and millions promoting/exporting the most hard line form of Islam and I believe it’s the fastest growing ‘brand’. Read some of Jason Burke’s books on the subject if you’re interested.

That’s not to say all Muslims follow it by any means…

The EDL promotes the understanding of Islam and the implications for non-Muslims forced to live alongside it. Islam is not just a religious system, but a political and social ideology that seeks to dominate all non-believers and impose a harsh legal system that rejects democratic accountability and human rights.

So which bit of that isn’t racist?

The above statement may not be factually correct, but Islam is a faith system, not a race.

To to answer your question literally, none of the above is racist. “Religionist” yes, racist, no.

grum – Member

Sadly I’m not really sure that’s true. The Saudis have spent millions and millions promoting/exporting the most hard line form of Islam

All of them?

To return to the original question, might we not all be a little more sceptical if we remember the fact that Robinson and his right-hand man are due for a(another) court appearance?

The leopard’s spots aren’t changing, the leopard’s just re-grouping.

I hope the EDL tear themselves apart in the mean time now their ‘big strong man’ has absconded.

At least he has the right of freedom of expression, which is more than can be said of most ‘Muslim’ countries…

I think you will find we have a different list to them of things you cannot say so our freedom of expression is not without limits either. Its just we have different rules rather than complete “free speech”

We didn’t see one Egyptian woman in the two weeks we were there

How do you know what they did in the sea seeing as you did not see any?
Try not to contradict yourself 🙄

The clash of cultures is never an edifying sight with each side comfortable that the ways they have been indoctrinated into are the best way and the other lot are oppressive in some way. I dont think the way that twerking girl acts is exactly a great advert for western freedoms and the respect we have for females anymore than I think the full veil is for Islam.On the one hand we have the extremists Muslims and on the other hand the extremists like EDL

I dont wish either to have a particularly strong influence on my life I am honest but i am not sure either is a threat to my very way of life

there are aspects of “my” culture i dont approve of and aspects of “their” culture I dont approve of.

grum – Member
Sadly I’m not really sure that’s true. The Saudis have spent millions and millions promoting/exporting the most hard line form of Islam

All of them?

*sigh*

The Saudi ruling class – keen to prove their Islamic credentials despite cosying up to the west.

In the spring of 2003, local imams in northern Iraq were worried. Not just about the impending war, but about the inroads that ultra-conservative, intolerant and aggressive strands of Islam were making among their traditionally moderate congregations. The enemy in this particular struggle was not Saddam, they said, but Saudi Arabia.
Since the Kurdish regions had established a de facto autonomy in the wake of the first Gulf war, the imam at the main mosque in Sulaymaniyah explained, hundreds of mosques had been built by Saudi Arabian religious foundations, their ultra-conservative imams imported from the Arabian peninsula. He and his fellow clerics simply did not have the means to compete with the massive aid being distributed by Saudi-based charitable organisations – aid contingent on attendance at special Qur’anic lessons, on wives or sisters wearing a veil and leaving secular political parties. Most damaging of all, he said, was the flood of pamphlets and books that pushed a worldview in which Jews, Christians, Shias and the west were cast as Muslims’ sworn enemies.

The rolling hills and grassy plains of Kurdistan are a long way from Whitehall, the Mall and the trappings of a state visit. Yet they ought not to be so far from the thoughts of the various dignitaries warmly shaking the hands of the Saudi royals than they no doubt are.

What I heard in Sulaymaniyah should surprise no one. For many decades, Saudi Arabia has used its prodigious profits from oil not just to buy off domestic dissent but to fund the export around the world of one of the most conservative, rigorous and intolerant strains of Islam.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2007/oct/31/comment.saudiarabia

What has “what is Tommy Robinson up to?” got to do with how they do things in ‘Muslim’ countries ?

Is Tommy Robinson on a mission to make things better in in Muslim countries ?

.

Are these EDL supporters angry with the police because of what’s happen in in Muslim countries ?

And yeah ‘forced’ as in, there was no choice in the matter for someone who didn’t want to?

Is this a bit like me being forced to live alongside Christians or, worse still, football fans, because I had no choice in the matter?

So this is nothing to do with his impending court case in a few days?

call me cynical but I suspect the man that cried when busted with a fake passport in the USA is worried about sentencing next week

And as it happens both my brothers follow luton town FC home and away and Im assured that he is a violent hooligan who particularly hates muslims.

Is this a bit like me being forced to live alongside Christians or, worse still, football fans, because I had no choice in the matter?

Lions solves the first problem not sure about the later

Are these EDL supporters angry with the police because of what’s happen in in Muslim countries ?

and has darth maul on the right got a mask on or did his mum break out the face paints before he went on an EDL rally (no doubt fighting for freedom of speech and tea and hugs for repressed muslims everywhere)

I reckon if the EDL all got their faces painted as star wars or Marvel characters their events would be a lot less intimidating. Tommy might even start to show interest again.

Bet they would all dress up as characters from the dark side and still not work out they were the baddies

See below for a snippet from a discussion on an EDL facebook group about Malala Yousafzai, you know, the girl who was shot in the head for working against Islamic extremism. Seeing as her and the EDL are supposedly working towards the same aim you’d think they’d respect and support her….

Maybe these kind of people are why poor gentle Tommy is quitting the EDL, but it’s not as if he’s had no part in encouraging or enabling these views.

Oh and:

Those who were willing to have a chat with me seemed pretty confused. A 47-year-old solicitor called “Viking” told me that he objected to the fact that Kingsmill bread is halal; he was convinced that, as a Christian, this meant that he couldn’t eat it.

I’m sure ‘Viking’ occasionally sees loaves of bread that he thinks are especially for him until a second glance reveals it actually says “thick cut“.

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/the-edl-bled-all-over-birmingham-on-saturday

😯 There’s some worrying stuff in that Facebook page…

IME people I’ve known who hold racist views (or were anti any minority) have usually had significant personal issues to deal with – low self esteem, insecurity, anger issues, difficulty coping with change etc – they’re rarely thoughtful, pleasant people in the first place… usually just projecting their own problems on the easily persecuted minority…

The increase in this kind of talk at the moment is just people struggling to cope with the 2008 shock and the realisation that we’re not going to stay a prosperous country without significant change and hard work – globalisation has brought us a lot of competition from the developing world. Racism has always been rife at times of economic hardship – see 1930s Germany…

The Economist makes an interesting observation about the impact of immigration on economic growth. The overall UK % of White British in the population is 90%. In London it’s 50%, which is also the richest part of the UK.

Go figure…

Racism has always been rife at times of economic hardship

Yep, which makes the collapse of electoral support for the BNP since the downturn in the economy particularly puzzling.

.

The Economist makes an interesting observation about the impact of immigration on economic growth. The overall UK % of White British in the population is 90%. In London it’s 50%, which is also the richest part of the UK.

That’s really quite meaningless imo and the Economist must know that it is. It’s not all rich wealthy people London, it also has some of the highest levels of poverty in the UK – 40% of children live in poverty in London.

I wonder if UKIP has been able to channel a lot of the potential BNPers supporters

I wonder if UKIP has been able to channel a lot of the potential BNPers supporters

Because being too overtly racist isn’t quite the vote winner it was a few years back ?

Do you reckon they shot tommy with their muslamic ray gams?