Is there some famous thread from before my time? I think it might be a good read. Can anyone link to it?

have only heard about this?am wondering what it is about also ❓

Good god Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

It’s the old debate about whether an aircraft on a treadmill would be able to take off, IIRC. No idea whether that’s from a thread or not.

I heard it’s the only way that South African aircraft can avoiding hitting antelope when they take off.

The argument happens because some idiots think the aeroplane will take off even if the conveyor belt is running at the same speed as the aeroplanes wheels!!! I guess some folk just don’t understand physics

Need to watch Mythbusters.

There have been many threads about it over the years, as Pyro said it’s just that debate.

To nip it in the bud… Yes it can, as the engines provide the thrust not the wheels, but the treadmill would have to be as long as a normal runway. People think of it as gaining pace on the spot and being able to take off in no space, which is bollocks, the airspeed at take off would be identical, the wheels would just be going rather faster.

It’s a bit like the P, only you didn’t pay for the privilege to be a pre-hacked member

and we’re off…

Mythbusters covered this a while ago.

See – I told you. There’s always some idiot (njee in this case) that just doesn’t get it at all.

allthepies – Member
and we’re off…

Not if we’re on a treadmill

and so it begins……

lol at druidh

🙂

But surely it’s the speed (pressure/lift) of the air flowing under and over the wings that give lift to make a plane take off?

A better question would be: can you blow air at a stationary plane and make it lift off the ground? Let’s ignore for a moment how you would do that.

Yes, it’s called a wind tunnel.

karinofnine – how would there be any air flowing under the wings of the treadmill was running at the same speed as the wheels? There wouldn’t be any forward motion to generate lift.

And your second example is commonly known as “A Kite” (google it).

I am 100% with DruidH. Air speed across the wings is all that matters. If the conveyor constantly matches matches the acceleration of the aircraft then the air over the wings is static and the thing will never take off.

Unless the rotation of the wheels generates lift?

Exactly, the plane has to travel forward through air – I was disregarding the treadmill entirely.

We used to go to RAF Coltishall and watch the Lightnings take off. Fantastic.

Oh, they didn’t use a treadmill either 😉

Surely everyone knows this by now?

(And you always choose the other door, as it’s more likely you’ll win a car.)

No, but the wheels aren’t powered, so the speed of the wheels is 100% irrelevant!

Can you push a bike along a conveyor belt?

That’s what the engines are doing – pushing the plane forward. If the conveyor matched the speed of the plane, at takeoff the airspeed would be 150mph, whilst the wheels would be doing 300mph. It’d still take off just fine!

A car however, or a bike you were trying to cycle, would not move.

druidh.. stop it, you are being naughty!!!

Next you’ll be telling me not to swap doors when offered the chance too!!

Edit: mike… snap!!

I think Njee is playing games.

I got another one….

If I am playing table tennis with a mate ( I do have one…)

on a flat bed truck

and it turns a corner just as I hit the ball…

which side of the table does the ball go off?

njee20 – that’s the way I picture this too.

eviljoe – Member
I got another one….
If I am playing table tennis with a mate ( I do have one…)
on a flat bed truck
and it turns a corner just as I hit the ball…
which side of the table does the ball go off?

Top side. Fact.

A rocket, strapped to a skateboard on a supermarket checkout?

How about this one…

I’m running forward carrying a ball and I throw it behind me. Does the ball travel forward or back?

That’s because you are right.

what was that old one about birds in a lorry?

Antelope

On a bicycle

In a wind tunnel

will it make any difference if the wheels are 26in or 29in?

This would need forward speed equal and opposite to the speed of the treadmill to remain stationary prior to attempting to take off.
Can it go forwards and vertically upwards at the same time?
If it was on the treadmill going ‘forwards’ (ie stationary but forwards relative to the treadmill) while the pilot went through the pre-flight checks and plane was readied for take-off would the act of switching from ‘forward’ to vertical movement sufficiently impeed the forward movement for it to fall off the back of the treadmill?
I suspect a plane capable of vertical take off may be the only kind not able to take off from a treadmill.

Antelope

On a bicycle

In a wind tunnel

will it make any difference if the wheels are 26in or 29in?

Yes…

Now where was that video of the ostriches and the rally car?

You’ve missed out one crucial detail that the OP needs to know. There were at least TWO subtley different versions of the questions meaning that arguements could run and run…

1. the belt matches the aircrafts speed

2. the belts speed always matches the speed of the wheels.

Next question.
Aircraft needs to do 200mph to take off.
Aircraft carrier is travelling at 100mph (for ease of maths rather than realism)
Aircraft accelerates and has a ‘ground’ (carrier) speed of 100mph when it reaches the end of the deck.
Airspeed is 200mph so it should fly.
Am I right?
Now imagine an aircraft carrier doing 100mph in reverse.
1) Aircraft has a ground speed of 100mph when it leaves the deck at the bow, air speed is 0 and it crashes.
2) Aircraft has a ground speed of 200mph when it leaves the deck at the bow, air speed is 100mph so it crashes.
3) Aircraft has a ground speed of 300mph when it leaves the deck at the bow, air speed is 200mph so it flies.
Does this help?
.
Doesanyone have either a really large treadmill or a really fast aircraft carrier so that we can proper observations rather than just relying on conjecture?

Is that rotational speed or forward speed HH?

I suspect a plane capable of vertical take off may be the only kind not able to take off from a treadmill.

It’ll take off fine. It’ll just be going backwards at the speed of the treadmill. Vertical take off doesn’t require any use of wings, just a shedload of thrust pointed down.

HoratioHufnagel has it, unfortunately many people seem to miss this. People don’t read the question properly.

Thrust SSC would still be able to break the world speed record on a treadmill.
If the turbine drove the wheels rather than just ‘pushing’ it along, then it wouldn’t.