Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 67 total)
  • Well, it seemed a good idea after a few beers
  • WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    Let’s see how this evolves.

    I give you the Day 1 image of my Aquaponics set up. A friend and I are going to grow vegetables, fish, crayfish, possibly mussels etc

    This might progress a bit slower than some of my other projects as I only have access to the allotment when Steve is about and his life f busier than mine.

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    Just don’t climb a ladder to fix them up high for pressure…

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    Actually hoping to part bury them to help keep the temperature down. Trout don’t like it above 20 Celsius.

    tops5
    Free Member

    Won’t it be warmer below ground?

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    Won’t it be warmer below ground

    No, it also tends to be more stable. Trout don’t like variations in temperatures or water above 20. It the sun hits the whole of the IBCs they will heat up quite rapidly even if painted

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    boiled fish? 😆

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    The stopper on the top doesn’t appear big enough to allow you to get in to plant your vegetables, wouldn’t it be easier to plant your vegetables in the ground around the containers ?

    CountZero
    Full Member

    If you know the right places to go, you can catch a large bucket of crayfish just by dropping a bit of bait on a line into the river, all the time enjoying a nice pint from the pub who’s beer garden you’re sitting in.
    I’ve actually watched a bloke and his son do it, they must have ended up with thirty or forty of the blighters!
    Pretty easy to get a few, most rivers are infested with Signal Crayfish these days, start your own breeding programme.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    If you want to keep crayfish I would suggest that you research their oxygen requirements and figure out a way of installing a generator/compressor on the allotment to provide means of mechanically agitating the water.

    geoffj
    Full Member

    You’ll need to check the regs with crayfish (signal). You may need a licence to keep what is an alien invasive.
    The trout sound like a good idea, but you may need some sort of running water setup.
    Impressive ambition though.

    yunki
    Free Member

    Koi and chips for xmas dinner! 🙂

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    There are regs about crayfish so they may be disappearing from the list.

    How about growing crab sticks?

    Trout & Carp are meant to be relatively easy.

    Water turn over is both tanks every 2 hours, so about 1000 litre per hour which isn’t massive.

    Fresh water prawns are meant to be good for cleaning the water and may replace the crayfish

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Prawns won’t provide a nitrogen cycle for you. If you add anything to the containers, such as food for the inhabitants, then you will have to remove the waste. Prawns are likely to add to the problem rather than solve it by consuming and producing waste.

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    Prawns clean algae

    Tanks are bottom drained and solids filtered off for fertiliser while ammonia and nitrite rich water fertilises the plant in the soil free beds before being fed back into the tanks.

    The Aqua bit is basic fish farming
    The Ponics is from hydroponics which as any good canabis grow will tell you is very effective for dense planting and high yields.

    Basically you add fish food, remove the lumpy fish shit, let the plants soak up the good bits of the fish piss and recirculate. Harvest is fish and vegetables .

    yunki
    Free Member

    water Fleas are a good bet…

    Our morning cup o’ char always turned into a protein rich soup when we used to dip the kettle in the lake.. back in the days of living under canvas

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Prawns clean algae

    Which if stable causes no harm and can actually remove nitrates, although admittedly in tiny quantities.

    …..while ammonia and nitrite rich water fertilises the plant in the soil free beds before being fed back into the tanks.

    My apologies, I had no idea that you were going to have a filtration system which will be irrigating growing plants before returning back into the containers. That isn’t obvious from the picture. It certainly sounds more reliable than relying on shrimps 🙂

    dufresneorama
    Free Member

    Looking forward to seeing how this progresses

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    Ernie – I will be posting some pictures of what is planned when I can remember what was agreed. Hopefully then all will become clear. Algae are only a problem in that they bung up the pumps and pipes and some can be toxic. Easier to keep it all clean

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    Here is a quick pic. Not quite perfect but it should give the idea

    The fish are in both tanks.
    There is an air stone in both tanks to keep them oxygenated.
    The grey pipe between the pumps allows the water and fish shit to flow between the two tanks
    The left tank has a pump pushing water up the brown pipe to the grow beds
    The long grey pipe across the back of the beds evens out the water flow to ensure both ends of the bed receive nutrient rich water
    The bed is soil free growing medium – gravel or clay balls – so the plants get their nutrients directly from the water.
    The blue bit in the middle of the bed is a syphon valve. This means the beds will fill up to a predetermined depth and then all the water will be syphoned into the tanks below leaving the grow bed to slowly fill again*
    The water exiting the syphon valve will be piped back into the two tanks with the splashing adding more oxygen

    *Apparently plant roots grow best when in the air having been recently wetted. This system will fill up the bed to wet the roots and then empty again. The timing of this cycle is yet to be determined and will depend on speed of pump, size of bed and depth of water. We are aiming for about 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 for duration wet vs dry.

    pictonroad
    Full Member

    1st guess, nowhere near enough water, fish constantly excrete nitrites and other chemicals to balance their system, I can see this getting toxic very quickly if you want to keep enough fish to make it worthwhile. 2000 litres is equivalent to a very small pond. You might also struggle with oxygenation in warm weather, air stones work by keeping the surface moving, not through dissolving oxygen.

    It’s a working system but on a MUCH bigger scale. For added realism stick a couple of chickens in a cage above the water to grow your algae. (Google poultry and waste fed fish aquaculture if you haven’t already)

    How many fish are you intending to harvest to make it worthwhile? I assume it’s not about saving cash but you’re just essentially replicating fish farming. Fish farming is now so efficient that trout and Salmon are incredibly cheap.

    It’s going to suck up time keeping it all running properly.

    Good luck though! I’ll expect trout on the bbq at the big bike bash…

    magowen100
    Free Member

    Great idea WCA – I’ll be interested to see the updates.
    A couple of things to bear in mind:
    Your flow rate is very low and will limit the stocking density of fish (and remember to calculte the stocking density based on the final target not the initial weight). I would suggest you go for no more than 10kg per cubic m but in theory you could go higher in later years in everything works out. To be clear thats 10 fish with a harvest weight of 1kg.
    if you have prawns or crayfish either keep them separate from the fish or have lots of hiding spaces as the fish will eat them when they moult.
    i would suggest you dont us both tanks. The linking pipe will eventually get blocked and will be a pain to clear if its underground. Also the temperature will fluctuate even with the tanks in the ground- probably too much for trout which will get stressed and lead to disease.
    The biggest problem with aquaponics units is that you cant treat the fish in situ as the plants will also take up any medications, so you have to have a back up filter or tank just in case.
    Another thing to consider is evaporation as the high surface area of the plant system leads to a lot of water loss. If you use the spare tank for holding water you can top up as needed, obviously water straight from the hose isnt suitable.
    Have you considered food for the fish? A standard trout diet will contain around 40% protein 20% fat which will be a lot for a vegetable filter to handle so you will need to stick to carp diets and feed sparinigly.
    Another thing to consider is the syphon – in my experience matching inlet and ouket flow rates never works long term. A better option is always to pump in and gravity feed back. The advantage of this is that you can use the return water to aerate as well by letting it drain through holes in the plant unit.
    If you had a greenhouse then a better option for food fish would be tilapia, but if not then have you considered goldfish ( not for food)? You could leave the goldfish and breed in the tank, harvest the plants and have small goldfish to sell to a local petshop. I know its not food but it will be a lot easier than trout.
    Good luck whatever you decide to do.
    Cheers Matt.
    Ninja edits: Choose the plant carefully as you need a very fast growth rate for decent filtration and you will also need to dose with minerals to keep the plants healthy. A good book to read, though its probably a bit out dated now, is Walter Adey’s Dynamic Aquaria. It describes the full ecosystem modelling using aquaponics and algae filters at the Simthsonian in the seventies and eighties.

    I kept around 40 rainbow trout in a 2000 litre system with 3 beds of around a ton of hydroleca. I added a trickle filter which helped massively. One thing to remember to do is buy fingerings. This will help the filter grow as the fish grow. I always had a tank full of plate sized fish and a tank of fingerings coming through. Organic salt is your friend for any problems. Mine must have been happy as they spawned on a regular basis. I used a 6000 litre water pump and a huge koi air pump. In the end I closed it down as any attempts to grow over winter were failures or just not productive enough. The fish tasted great though and the guts were great fert for the dirt garden. Btw mine went upto 26c okl. Lots of air and moving water is the clue. Carp would be less demanding on water movement and energy. Good luck and keep us upto date.

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    Many people run single IBC systems successfully with 10-15 trout and a couple of grow beds.

    I am aiming for 20-30 trout in 2000 litres but harvesting quite small so can cope with shorter growing period / off over winter.

    The IBCs will be in holes in the ground but the gap between them will also be in the hole so we will have constant access to pipe work.

    I thought air stones bubbled air into the bottom of the IBC and it dissolved (some) oxygen on the way up. That seems to be the advice I have read.

    The blue barrel in the first photo is the water storage before putting it in the tanks to let the chlorine evaporate. Possibly the sick fish tank too if required – water changed afterwards.

    Flow rates / Syphon – System will be pumped up and syphon back down. Pump will have a throttle and syphon can be adjusted to increase / decrease speed of dump. Dump should provide some oxygen. I am listening to what you say nd may convert later as it is not difficult – thanks

    Tilipia were my first thought for fish but they like averages in the twenties where trout cope with something below 22. I thought UK summers would average below 22 but happy to listen to those who have done it. I might put Tilapia in one IBC and Trout in the other. Whichever die first become food for the other.

    Planning on creating mesh cage play areas for the little beasties to hide in when the big fish might eat them. Hopefully they will have enough sense to stay within the cage. If they don’t? Well who wants to eat stupid prawns?

    Carp – possible. I have heard they are easier

    Btw mine went upto 26c okl Can you expand the acrynoym please? I am sure it is impressive but I don’t know what it means 😉

    Anyone with a system near Southampton who might want to talk / show is welcome to email me. Failing that, all advice welcome

    Any good sources* for fingerlings?

    *Other than Tartar Sauce

    No tap water! Most utilities add ammonia and chloride which reacts and produces chloramines which don’t ‘air’ off. You need to only use rainwater for trout. Again carp are a bit more robust. Tilapia won’t survive our summers. They are tropical fish and need around 25 celcius constant.
    Looking back at my notes my system averaged 15c over last summer with the odd peak upto 25c. The system was in a greenhouse too. I’m in North Manchester so you may average a couple of degrees higher. Btw tilapia are vegetarians so won’t eat your dead trout. Killing fish with bad technique could be a case for the rspc! There are methods for aquaponic systems that use worm castings. Which maybe an option??

    Also, removing solids for highly stocked ibc systems is a big deal. I wouldn’t add any structures to inside the ibc. Keep as clear as possible so the solids are in suspension and removed to the beds. Introduce compost worms to the beds and your remineralising the solids within the beds. I spent around half an hour everyday maintaining the system and feeding the fish. Trout are high maintenance.

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    I will be using goldfish initially as they are the most tolerant while I make sure the levels are stable and I can keep them stable. Then a few trout or carp in the other tank. Start small as I am learning. This is for dinner and fun, not a restaurant.

    Thanks for confirmation on Tilapia. That is what I thought.

    It reached 25 in Manchester?!?!??? Now I am not sure I can believe anything you say 🙂

    1/2 an hour a day. That’s fine as I am doing this with my son in law and it is in his allotment outside his house. I could pop down once a week and any death is his fault. Realistically I am hoping to be a bit more involved.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I thought air stones bubbled air into the bottom of the IBC and it dissolved (some) oxygen on the way up. That seems to be the advice I have read.

    The total area of the air bubbles will actually be insignificant, the gas exchange, ie, the carbon dioxide release/oxygen absorption will occur primarily on the surface of the water.

    Aeration will only really help this by moving the water and exposing the maximum amount to the surface.

    This will be particularly important in your case as from the pictures it would appear that you will have a small area of water surface relative to your total cubic volume.

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    Makes sense once explain. Thanks. I will ponder some more.

    I assume that if the water is splashing out into the grow beds it will also help.

    Splash into the grow beds and splash when they dump will be the main sources as it is currently planned right?

    Extra frotilation of the surface will improve it.

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    I assume that if the water is splashing out into the grow beds it will also help.

    Absolutely, that’s why cascading mountain rivers are very heavily oxygenated. Well to saturation point at least. And remember how important temperature is – oxygen levels drop very significantly at higher temperatures, so the warmer it is the more important aeration/agitation is.

    The exact principle used in trickle filters. Google it. They are used in sewage systems to process ammonia and nitrites. The added benefit is that their end product in nitrates which the plants love and fish arnt too keen on. Keep it as aerobic as possible. Any froth or slime is a bad sign. Increase air, reduce feeding and trust your nose. If the water smells bad then it’s not going to be good for plants or fish.

    Legoman
    Free Member

    I don’t understand about 90% of that ^

    However, don’t allotments normally have a ‘no livestock’ rule?

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Perhaps WCA is setting up his trout farm in Bristol 🙂

    Urban ‘fish allotment’ scheme trialled in Bristol

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    I have an ‘on off’ relationship with rules.

    They are not livestock, they are a water based compost heap. Prove me wrong and justify the expense

    Prove that and I will ask why they allow worms in vermiculture

    Legoman: Another way if saying it…. Stick forty trout in a big bucket for a week with no experience of aquaculture and you’ll end up with a slimy, stinky, dead mess.

    allthepies
    Free Member

    Seems cruel to the fish to keep them in those tanks IMO.

    Ro5ey
    Free Member

    I don’t understand about 90% of that ^

    Me too …. But I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

    Here’s me wondering whether to have a little go at growing your own in a small raised bed at the bottom of the garden and you boys are doing or have done something similar to this.

    I’m inspired and off to buy my tomato grow bags.

    Keep up the good work all … 🙂

    Legoman: Another way if saying it…. Stick forty trout in a big bucket for a week with no experience of aquaculture and you’ll end up with a slimy, stinky, dead mess.

    Allthepies: Fair comment. Nothing like seeing a clear river full of trout from a bridge on a summers day. Or a rolling wave full of sea bass on a cornish beach.
    But if you are interested in controlling your sources of food and understanding the process of nature. You can’t beat an experiment in a bucket. Just remember to put the animals welfare first.

    WorldClassAccident
    Free Member

    You can’t beat an experiment in a bucket. Just remember to put the animals welfare firs

    Agreed. Amazing how much there is to read but most of it seems to be American or Australian with the focus on warm water fish like Tilapia.

    The only UK forum I can find needs you to answer the following question to register: What does IBC stand for?

    Now according to my understanding, Wikipedia and everythig I can find, the answer is Intermediate bulk container but having tried it with upper and lower case it rejects my answer. Any suggestions?

    ernie_lynch
    Free Member

    Incredibly Big Container ?

    Idiot Behind Computer ?

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 67 total)

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