I have the chance to pick up a Ventana El Ciclon at a good price. However, is it just a more expensive version of a Kona or Turner?

mate, it is more expensive for a reason……… 8)

You DARE to breathe Turner and that other brand in the same sentence? The shame!

I know, Ventana is way better. 😀

what is this Kona of which you speak?

Kev

[/quote]I know, Ventana is way better uglier

Ftfy 😀

I have a ventana, build quality is second to none, and it’s pretty much perfect. Not a looker as such, but beauty is all subjective anyway 😉 I think it’s pretty anyway! Rides like a beaut

i agree with khani………ugly as ****
but what a fantastic build quality and ride.

Why pay for a name when a nice Kona will do the job?

Superb quality Ventana and Turner are fine to be in the same sentence. Don’t have guff Lada Kona in there though.

Why pay for a name when a nice Kona will do the job?

Says the man having to hand massage an exotic carbon bike so it fits together!

Chucky aka vortexracing is your man as he’s owned all three! 🙂

Ventana used to make frames for turner at one time iirc
Nowt wrong with konas, nothing fancy to shout about, but they ride nice and are miles cheaper

Says the man having to hand massage an exotic carbon bike so it fits together!

Exotic? It’s a bloody On One! 🙂 The whole bike only owes me £1200!

I’ve had my boutique bike fix. It was nice. But don’t kid yourself a big name buys anything more than a mainstream brand……other than posing rights

pp………or a bike that fit’s…….. 8)

Khani.. Ventana made about 150 of the very first Turner frames.

I’d be happy with either Turner or Ventana, the build quality if fantastic on both. My 5 Spot is coming up for 6 years old now and still going strong…

PP… are all 4-bar suspension designs the same then? 😉

How is the El Ciclon on the uphills? Does it bob a lot?

I knew they made some, my 5spot was 7yrs old on the 20th of feb, still my favourite bike,-ventanas are a linkage actuated single pivot, same as TNT turners, (fubar not four bar 😉 )

pp – as ton said – they fit. That is worth more than the money.

Without getting into the weeds of rocker lengths and all that stuff, all 4 bars do not ride the same, and depending on the Turner, you’ll have one of 3 different suspension designs (only 1 of which is 4 bar). Ventanas are rocker driven single pivots, and Konas are as weill (I think. WHat’s that Magic Link stuff about though?)

I’ve had 2 Ventanas, never ridden a Turner and only seldom ridden a Kona full sus, so may not be best placed to comment… but, I realised I’d made a mistake after selling my first Ventana and returned to riding one as my main (now only) MTB: fantastically stiff main frame and rear triangle, great finish, easy to work on (if you like to do that) and understand. The suspension action isn’t the most efficient but it’s not something that the majority of people would ever notice, and it’s a lovely ride, which is (for me) the main thing. And I can keep up with people on more “advanced” designs.

Plus, they’ll PX when you want to get another…

(must check my spelling in future)

Love my El-Ciclon. They need pro-pedal on for climbing. Suspension is quite active, but not like a 5. The most stable did bike I’ve tried. Tracks beautifully, lovely stiff rear end. Into my 29er a lot at the moment, had thought I might offload the Ventana but doubt it. Love it too much. Turners are way too common, Konas too niche. 🙂

PP… are all 4-bar suspension designs the same then?

No idea. And neither do you
But I imagine Specialized know more than most about them….. 🙂

pp………or a bike that fit’s……..

Best reason ever for buying a particular brand! But would you crow about it if a Carrera was the best fit? 🙂

Nowt wrong with buying a fancy brand name because you just can. Or because you like it. Or because it’s flashy. Nothing at all.
Just don’t start claiming it’s massively better, if at all, than any other brand. Because it’s not. 🙂

What a load of bollocks.Sure the main brands make good bikes designed to cover a wide range of bums.The boutique builders offer something designed with a bit of flare and aimed at a more discerning rider.I suspect this is something thats probably wasted on i guy like u but there are riders around that can tell the difference and are willing to pay a permium to get it.

But I imagine Specialized know more than most about them…..

In that regard, I’d struggle to justify buying anything more that a spesh 2011 stumpjumper. I feels exactly like my 5year old 5spot, but its lighter.

The main differences are that the stumpy is clearly lighter and a bit twitchier, the 5spot is more stable and carries with it the feeling of more strength.

That hurt the brand snob in me to say that. Obviously it doesn’t carry the bush pivots for durability, or the cachet of Turner, but the price vs ride comparison is very compelling.

Perhaps a little bit of background would help.

Where I ride is mainly sandy and gravelly, interspersed with a few quagmires of mud and fire roads linking sections of trail.

I started out riding VPP’s ( Blur, Nomad, 5.5) Then had a Flux and I’m currently riding a Motolite.

The VPP’s were very efficient but constantly lost traction on climbs and were chan snap-tastic. I also dodn’t like the after sales from SC so bought a Turner.

The Turner had much more traction and felt very stable after an Intense 5.5. However, it was very bobby and there was definitely no climbing out of the saddle.

The Motolite is as good as anything I’ve ridden before. With the propedal on and the talas locked down, it is very efficient on the long fire road climbs. It’s very active with the propedal off though and I’m just waiting to hear the crack as the carbon seat stays fail.

I’m tempted by the Ciclon as I’m a heavy guy, it’s renowned as a very stable, bomb proof bike and anyone who has ever had one has raved about it.

PP… Oh I don’t? That’s nice of you to tell me… 😉

In that regard, I’d struggle to justify buying anything more that a spesh 2011 stumpjumper. I feels exactly like my 5year old 5spot, but its lighter.

You mean Spesh have only just managed to match the suspension feel of a 5 year old Turner? 😉

Quite possibly!

Shooterman, I had been looking for a laterally still but good actioned and reliable 29er FS for ages. I knew ton had an el cap but thought it looked, frankly, hideous. Much preferred the look of intense or turner. I am fat.

Never did get a ride on a Sultan, and no local dealer, but did ride an El Rey which completely sold me on an el cap. 2 mates have tracers and reliability and CS not the best. Shame.

It is spectacular, on propedal3 it is bob free, it does need the pro pedal though as my technique not smooth enough. It is so **** stiff it is unreal, and the finish and quality is just staggering (plus I have a great local dealer). It is great at out the saddle honking either uphill or in free ride mode, and the suspension action is bloody lovely. Smooth, bottomless and takes most hits with aplomb.

Tiny bit of granny gear feedback on technical climbs, and big square edged hits are a bit crashy.

I imagine many of these comments will apply across the range as the basic design is very similar.

I absolutely love mine, and sadly, I now think all other bikes are a bit hideous as the big bike is just fabulous. 😀

And just coz she is sooooo lovely:

Chucky aka vortexracing is your man as he’s owned all three

Sure have although the kona was a stinky so I’m not sure that counts.

I’ve had 2 X5’s and now own a DW 5 spot.

Firstly I’m sure the Ventana and Turner cost about the same, the Ventana maybe even cheaper if comparing RRP.

Both are in a different league to Kona for workmanship and quality. Both are hand built in the States

The Ventana is a different ride to the DW 5 spot. The Ventana gives up it’s travel a little easier on the down hills especially the rocky ones. and when I fitted a coil it absolutely flew, but it didn’t pedal that well.

The Turner feels a little more ‘pert’ but just as composed. It’s a bit difficult to describe.

The Turner feels like a bike that seems to do all aspects well, Whilst the Ventana felt more at home on the DH bits. IMHO

The Turner climbs better, ie easier, but on technical stuff where grip is needed the Ventana is brill.

I am sure you will not be dissapointed with either the Turner or Ventana.

One plus point for the Ventana is Alan at Riverside (importers) a nicer, more helpful guy you will not find.

Both customer service from Ventana and Turner are legendary.