Hi all,

I’m having issues making my spyures do any actual braking. I’ve worked on all the variables (I think). pads wound in, pads would out and arm pre-loaded, new pads and clean rotor. Original rotor. Avid rotor.

They are just rubbish. I can’t do an endo on the front one.

The only thing I can think of now is the brake lever – I’m running SRAM. Does it turn out that they are only really compatible with the new Shimano cable pull?

Has anyone found a good bodge to solve this issue? (I suppose it would need a shorter arm, or have I got it the wrong way around?).

I’m on the brink of either trying to send them back as not fit for purpose, or if that doesn’t work, bunging them on eBay, and putting the money towards buying some CX1 hydros (cause avid hydraulics have such a good rep for reliability)

oh, I should mention, I don’t have compressionless housing anymore, but I didn’t on the BB7’s before either, and they worked just fine. I did have it briefly on the rear, but it got so gunked up that I had to bin them, and I just bought normal outer for a quick replacement, and it really wasn’t that much worse.

I found compressionless housing made a really big difference with Spyres – I was actually surprised at the change. I’d swapped from BB7s using normal Shimano brake cable, so it might be worth giving that a go. Also, the original brake pads are hopeless in the wet and wear super fast in those conditions too.

I’m using older Tiagra levers, so I can’t really help you on the SRAM lever front, but with compressionless housing, mine feel pretty much on a par with my old BB7s.

FWIW (I’ve already discussed this with Leon), the only issue I found was that when new I struggled to get the pads to clear the disc fully but that may well be my frame fork. Once slightly worn/bedded in, they’ve been great. I’m not using compressionless cables.

That said, I use chicken levers and campag ergos. I have found that I have to set the brakes up with very little free throw when used on the ergos. They don’t rub though so no issue.

I’d really like to hear from anyone using SRAM brifters. I’ve got some spare compressionless housing, I’m just not sure I can be bothered to switch it out now, as I don’t think it’s really the issue.

It’s not as if when I squeeze, it feels like everything is flexing. It’s just as if there is no power, and the rother just keeps turning. IN fact, best way to describe is that it’s like having contaminated pads/rotors.

I just put new superstar kevlar pads on the front, and a new rotor (the trp one, which I never tried before), and have been out bedding it in. It got slightly better, but still not great.

I use the same pads on other bikes, and really like the feel, so although I’m sure there will be people who say SS pads are crap or something, again, I don’t think it’s the issue

Have you got them good and muddy – I’ve often found that that sorts out the ‘contaminated’ pads/disc feeling even with new pads.

Found this from TRP:

http://www.trpbrakes.com/article_detail.php?aid=24

Shimano versus SRAM/Campy: The first question to ask yourself is SHIMANO, SRAM, or CAMPAGNOLO? Simply put, the new Shimano 7900 series (6700 series in Ultegra) pull more cable when you squeeze the lever. We offer both the Magnesium R979’s and the forged aluminum R879’s for the Shimano 7900/6700 crowd. All of our other road brakes are compatible with SRAM, Campagnolo, and all versions of Shimano.

I’d just ride it, and letting things bed in, for a couple of rides.

No better?

Then, switch to compressionless housing.

Still rubbish?

Try different pads.

Still shit?

Then bin ’em.

well, I’ve already done about 200km off road on them, including a race. Pretty terrifying on the descents especially, but also difficult when trying to go quickly into corners.

The new pads are the last throw of the dice. Maybe they’ll bed in better, maybe not. If they are not better by the end of the first real ride though, they are on eBay (at least the front)

Do you have the cable going over the pinch bolt at the caliper or under it? On Spyres, it is supposed to go under it (ie. between the pinch bolt and the caliper) and it does change the leverage. Not much but a bit.

Really though, Spyres are super easy to set up so should be spot on. Compressionless outer does make a difference though

My spyres went from working really well, to literally not working at all.
They were gritty and sticky.

Basically it was ‘everything’ slightly worn and mucked up – the lever was a bit gritty, the cable was a bit sticky, the caliper was gritty…
This all added up.

I took it all apart, cleaned it all up, and they are great again.

Just waiting on some compresisonless cables when back in stock, and they’ll be working 110% (or something like that)

DrP

Out of interest, which compressionless housings are people using?

I used Jagwire Road XL kit on my Croix De Fer. At the time it was the only stuff i could get and run full outer to the rear, and come with the bendy bits for round the bars.

Amazon have the full set for £38…although it was less than that when I got it.

It’s the black/black set over here: Amazon linky

Pretty sure something similar came on my TCX as standard.

cable under the pinc bolt (i.e. closest to the wheel axle).

I was using Jagwire compressionless outer. It’s good value, and seems nicely made (and you can probably get it in purple).

It’s not very flexible though (although I understand that’s a problem with all the compressionless outer, due to how they are constructed), and that was causing me friction issues before, due to the cable routing on my frame.

I have noticed the caliper feels very gritty inside. I guess that will be the next thing though (if nothing else to flog them!)

I use them with sram rival shifters and they’re alright, you can feel some bite to them when they brake, which is nice, definitely better once they’ve bed in, I’ve got no idea if I’m using compressionless housing or not

for what it’s worth I ditched the rotors that came with them as they felt nasty up through the lever, I replaced them with centerline rotors and they feel better now, but I’m not sure what fixed the problem tbh as I also put the pads back in with some copper grease on the back, and bedded them in more carefully, so it could have been any one of those that made the improvement

Can you get round to mine sometime to have a feel(!) – at least then you’d know that it’s not just me reckoning crap brakes are good 🙂

There are a few threads on this including in the Tripster thread so worth checking those.

Like you I’ve tried all sorts of set-ups on several bikes and like others found compressionless cable makes the difference. Personally I don’t think they’re any better or worse than BB7s but a lot less faff and better clearances. (On the outboard not the inboard!)

Tried some different pads from Disco Brakes and they made some difference, stock ones wore down really fast in the mud and grit.

Latest trial is HyRd on the front which seems ok so far and certainly no difference in feel and modulation between it and the Spyre on the back which surprised me.

Main problem has been judder on carbon forks. Nothing has really sorted this and I don’t know if it is the QR not being tight enough or what, but it’s not particularly confidence inspiring.

Main problem has been judder on carbon forks. Nothing has really sorted this and I don’t know if it is the QR not being tight enough or what, but it’s not particularly confidence inspiring.

Did you try the copper grease on the back of the pads? It’s what sorted the judder I had on my TRP/Croix De Fer setup.

These are what I have on mine

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/jagwire-slick-stainless-hyper-brake-kit/?lang=en&curr=GBP&dest=1&utm_source=pla&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=uk&utm_content=Jagwire%20Slick%20Stainless%20Hyper%20Brake%20Kit%20-%20Purple%20%7C%20Brake%20Cables&kpid=5360494433&sku=5360494433&ci_src=18615224&ci_sku=5360494433uk&utm_source=google&utm_term&utm_campaign=All+Products&utm_medium=base&utm_content=sj1PzferW_dc%7cpcrid%7c%7cpkw%7c%7cpmt%7c%7cprd%7c5360494433uk&dest=1&curr=GBP

Judder or pulsing? I found that the stock rotors pulsed unpleasantly. Changing the rotor sorted that.

compared to a mtb – which I’m sure was everyone’s first taste of disc brakes so is the benchmark – a road frame just isn’t sturdy enough at the moment so I think feeling that flex when braking is to be expected

I think with my brakes it was pulsing rather than judder and that changing the rotor sorted it

also for me one of the best things I did to improve braking was to true the rotor, this let me bring the pads in much closer and so the bite point was that much sooner, I don’t think there’s enough lever travel to get away with the pads not being close, not with sram brifters anyway, before I trued the rotor it felt like the levers were hitting the bars before I could get any decent power out of them, now the bite point is almost immediately after I squeeze the lever and I have all the rest of the travel for power

Tried the copper grease, tried different rotors and all sorts of other things I’ve probably forgotten. Nothing entirely eliminates it.

Interesting about the distinction between pulsing and juddering. Suppose it is more pulse. I used to have a Tricross and that was more judder before fitting a fork-mounted hanger.

Agree with tehtehetc, maybe some flex is to be expected? Same brakes on mountain 29er steel forks (STIs) and carbon forks (STIs). Exactly the same set-up and completely different feel.

I have similar issues with mine – the front I have dialed in pretty good. In fact it is very very good. That was sorted with time spent getting the alignment spot-on.

With the rear though that has never felt right. too much lever pull, not enough power etc. it simply doesn’t work. I emailed Spyre but everything they suggested I had already done (alignment mostly).

I have done a few hundred miles and a couple of races.

The main thing I could see was rotor flex. Even with hours and hours of aligning the pads (the front has no such flex hence the power is good.)

Changed the pads(nukeproof) and rotors (icetech).

Now there is less flex but still too much lever pull to get enough power on. wind the pads in and they drag….

Next step is to change the cable housing which i have just ordered. I’ll put that on on Friday night.

I will let you know how I get on.

When I swapped from bb7s on my Croix to the spyre slcs on my tripster I just swapped the bars with gore rideon cables and 105 levers, and kept the same avid clean sweep g2 rotors, and immediately noticed that the spyres had more power and nicer feel than the bb7s.

After a couple of muddy rides the rear pads started to disappear so I am just about to fit some more.

I have no judder noticeable, but I am using dt rws skewers.

Unless something drastic happens I can’t see me ever changing them as they feel perfect to me.

I’ve got Spyres with Force22 levers on my road bike and they’ve always worked great… Not that that really helps you, but at least lets you know they should work with SRAM…

Using IceTech discs at the moment, but the stock TRP discs were fine. Stock pads and standard Shimano brake outer.

nemesis – maybe I should get over. I remember crankslave insisting his froglegs were brilliant, until he tried my cantis. He replaced them next ride.

These are definitely not as good as my cantis used to be, nor my bb7’s.

If they are so picky about alignment, and pad spacing, they don’t sound like the right thing for cross racing, especially as I have different wheels for racing (with slightly different rotor spacing). I was sort of relying on being able to loosen the caliper, squeeze, and re-tighten when swapping wheels before a race.

bah. I will perservere, but I will not spend any more money. If I can’t get them to work, I’ll cash in and buy something else.

Shame really, I was fine with th BB7’s, but my new frame has a chainstay mounted caliper bracket, and I kept hitting my heels on them.

I was sort of relying on being able to loosen the caliper, squeeze, and re-tighten when swapping wheels before a race.

can any brakes do this though? in my experience they all need fine tuning by hand to get them spot on

Hi,

Compressionless cables do make a difference. The stock pads aren’t great so I would change them.

I use SRAM levers and they work really well.

They are prone to getting gritty inside. Check out my posts in my profile there is a full strip down rebuild guide.

Regards

..

spangelsaregreat – just found the post – that’s great.

tehtehtehteh – I’ve never really had problems with that in the past on mtbs. Key is to tighten the bolts alternately, and gently. If you just wang one up, then the other it will twist

Just echoing all the advice about compressionless cable outer here. Made a huge difference to my Spyres. Anyone found a UK source for the Jagwire stuff without having to buy a fancy retail pack?

would be good to be able to just buy lengths of the outer. I’m building up a collection of the gear outer here from having done two bikes.

How about this for Jagwire?

I have Spyres on my Tripster and they have been spot on, used with Ultegra 6800 levers and cabling. I wore the original pads out and im now on Superstar ones, not much difference between the two. Set-up and alignment was pretty much the same as i do with my mtb brakes. No judder here either, ive done about 1000 miles on them.

I’ve bought cheap jagwire on ebay and as I expected, it was fake. It’s ok functionally but not as nice as the proper stuff (the purple is actually pink or fuschia maybe 🙂 ).

How about this for Jagwire?

that’s the stuff, but in the “non-XL” guise, you need to buy two packs if you need continuous cable outer.

nemesis – are you suggesting that that link from boblo is fake jagwire?

I bought some of the cheaper stuff for a fiver for a hack bike, and it seemed fine, but wasn’t supposed to be the posh jagwire. It’s just different levels. I can’t imagine jagwire is a hot enough brand to be worth printing the cable logos, end caps, etc…

How do you know it’s fake?

It’s different to the genuine one I have 🙂

Sorry, I wasn’t specifically saying the linked ebay one is fake, just that I’ve bought a fake one from ebay which was cheaper than the genuine one.

That ebay one looks the real deal to me. Thing is, you buy that and you get a load of ferrules and inner cables and gear cables and faff that I really don’t need. Also if you buy that one it hardly has any length of outer in it. As Leon says you need the XL one for a continuous run to the rear brake, which is even pricier – especially if you’ve bought the normal one first before finding that out. 🙄

I just wondered if anyone had found a source of the KEB-SL outer on its own, that’s the compressionless stuff, without paying for all the pointless extras and packaging. Jagwire list a 10m roll on their site but I can’t find it available to buy by length anywhere so I wonder if they don’t import it here.

I’ve not found any other manufacturers of compressionless outer either, although I admit I’ve not looked *that* hard. Suggestions welcome! 🙂