Yeah, I like the structure of 3 training rides per week. This seems doable with additional fun rides and so far I have managed to avoid missing any workouts. The trails have dried out round here recently though and the temptation just to go and ride in the woods for fun all the time is strong!

Thread resurrection. Just dustin the turbo and getting ready to start up again on TR. Anyone else? Estimated FTP before I do a test in week or so (ie when im prepared enough:). Be interesting what adaptive training does?

I’ve just started a training plan in earnest. Only a week in so far am happy with how AT is treating things. I hate FTP testing with a passion so have gone with a good guess and am just hoping AT will keep serving me workouts I can do.

I’ve been doing Low Volume for the last 12 months and Adaptive Training has been brilliant. I couldn’t always keep up with the suggested ramp rates under the old plans and got demotivated when I failed workouts.

Now my FTP has steadily increased and what is better is that AT will allow for some error in your FTP and serve you workouts that are doable (As long as you are completely honest with the post-workout surveys!). Big fan and eagerly awaiting the new system that will estimate your FTP for you without having to do a ramp test!

AT is new on me – I trained with TR quite a lot last Feb / March / April but when the weather got better I rode outside more.

I’ve done something to my foot so I get pain in the right on on the top / right hand edge. It had eased whilst I was riding less due to illness in Oct / Nov but as soon as I’ve done a few hard turbo sessions it’s back. Normal cycling didn’t seem to be an issue for it. So it’s either the pressure – or the shoe / pedal combo.

Wanted to try a ramp test yesterday at the start of a training plan so swapped to flat pedals with trainers and it seems to have gone down a lot better. Odd.

I can see AT has already revised (made easier) the initial training plan based on a few turbo sessions plus the ramp test so it looks like a good system so far 👍

I also like the ‘TrainNow’ button, I’d been using that quite a bit the last couple of months.
Had been planning on starting low volume base next week but IT band seems to be playing up so will have to see how quickly I get that under control

In-thread PSA. It seems TR have released some kind of clever robot that estimates your FTP for you.

Details on how to enable it over on the TR forum: https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/forum/t/introducing-ai-ftp-detection/69122?u=stevious

Seems to work OK for me.

Yep, worked for me too. I’d been using a made up number for the last couple of months, and have lately stepped things up and started to feel like I was sandbagging a bit. The AI estimated a 16 W bump, which I think is not far off. Though, as usual I’m slightly daunted now by workouts with the new setting (though the adaptive training magic has turned down my upcoming workouts accordingly so I’m sure it’ll be fine!)

Why would you need it to estimate ftp – you could just do a ramp test?

Why would you need it to estimate ftp – you could just do a ramp test?

Because I hate doing ftp testing of any kind. My motivation for max efforts rarely coincides with test day.

I’m looking forward to my next ramp test – probably tomorrow. Expecting to see a bit of a bump up in ftp whilst at the same time having lost a bit of weight. Win / win.

Finding the sessions towards the end of the first have of my sweet spot low volume training plan a bit easy. That said I have tweaked them about as I’ve gone along as I don’t always have time for the full length sessions suggested.

On 231w ftp at the start of Jan at 77.2kgs. This morning I’m at 75.2kgs and hoping to see 250w ftp – I certainly feel a lot better out on the Mtb at the moment up hill.

Just took a quick look at the TR estimated FTP, doesn’t rely on any max efforts…seems even more vague than the ramp test but probably gets you in the ball park if you’re happy with that.

Well the idea is that it uses machine learning wizardry to make estimates without max efforts. They think it works (and have an awful lot of data), but I guess only you can decide whether its predictions are good enough for you.

I’m very sure that its prediction is close enough to what I would have got on a ramp test. Only needs to be close enough to be useful for setting future training, I’m not proving anything by the number. So how ‘true’ an FTP it is, is not really that critical.

For me though, it turns out to be irrelevant, because I broke my hip on Saturday! So my nice new FTP is wasting away as we speak…

The estimated setting is saying I’ve gone from 231w to 244w. Seems reasonable actually as I’ve been competing workouts a little easier than 6 weeks ago – but I’m going to do a ramp test later to compare and see what that comes up with.

On FTP tests, does anyone do the ‘5 minute max effort/recover/20 minute test’ protocol?

Apparently it returns a more accurate FTP but I don’t really care about ‘accurate’ as I’m not racing on Zwift and lie about my FTP to my riding buddies anyway 😎

I just don’t see the point in the 5 minute max effort before the FTP test as I don’t typically start my workouts with a 5 minute max effort so don’t see how it is applicable…

Gray – sorry to hear about your hip!

On FTP tests, does anyone do the ‘5 minute max effort/recover/20 minute test’ protocol?

I use WKO which is modelled off 3 max efforts of short, medium and long durations…actually did a 20m test last week (with 5m effort) to verify mine out of interest, it was within a couple of watts.

Always believed the 5m effort is to burn off some of the anaerobic contribution…I do mine at 110%…so you’re getting a purer aerobic result? Not really sure it makes a huge difference in as far as giving you a number to set your training zones off but it also serves as a decent warm up.

Ramp test will get you close enough unless you’re one of the outliers!

Always believed the 5m effort is to burn off some of the anaerobic contribution…

Yep, exactly as I understood it, but my thoughts were that since I *don’t* burn off that anaerobic contribution before any of my workouts, rides or (rare) races, what’s the point? Feels like I’d end up basing my workouts on a slightly lower FTP but then still have that anaerobic contribution in reserve…

Although actually (this thought has just occurred), does the anaerobic system kick in for lower intensity workouts? e.g. if I’m just doing sweetspot am I relying purely on aerobic?

edit: I’m on a dumb turbo/rollers, can’t do ramp test!

Ramp test on rollers would be interesting!

I read it as specific to the 20m interval, you can skew your result (albeit marginally) by contributing too much and subsequently setting your zones too high.

@13thfloormonk – I definitely read/heard somewhere that even z2 efforts have some anaerobic components but a quick bit of googling has just served up a bunch of confusing graphs.

I’ve never truly understood the need for the clearing efforts in FTP testing, but given that pretty much every protocol uses something to account for it I’m happy to trust the physiologists that it’s needed.

I guess if you’re only using your FTP to scale sweet spot efforts then you might still be able to do the workouts with higher FTP without doing yourself in. Personally, I’d rather stick with a lower number than go MOAR HARDER when it comes to training – I’d much rather have a bit left in the tank for dealing with other life stuff.

I guess in a perfect test you’d ride exactly at the point between production and clearance, the minute you tip over (or dip under) that point then your result drifts.

It’s all an approximation of MLSS anyway?

But I’d agree it’s possibly better to have it slightly lower and complete your workouts than too high and fail.

Yeah, I’m thinking the same.

Very quickly skim read a Trainer road article which suggested Sweet spot should be all aerobic, so if I’ve set an FTP with an anaerobic contribution then the sweetspot stuff will be harder rather than easier I guess.

Need to keep reminding myself that I’m only using virtual power on a set of rollers so I think there’s a fairly hefty margin for error anyway 😎

I got some good results using virtual power with the TR plans…okay so maybe I was relatively under trained and almost any form of training would have got improvements.

Sounds like you’re well on your way to getting a power meter/smart set up…

Also, I think adaptive training gives you loads of leeway in your FTP. In my experience it’s pretty good at serving up stuff I can do and adjusting things based on how I find it. For example, I suck at long intervals so it gives me easy sweetspot/threshhold stuff compared to the VO2 stuff it’s serving me.

So I got 238w on a ramp test vs the predicted 244w the new ftp estimation tool gave. Will run with the 238w for the next section of the plan and see how that goes. The workouts look harder with longer sweet spot and threshold efforts and some vo2 looking stuff after the initial base building.

I always think it would be good to do these side by side with someone else – would give that bit more motivation to push another 30 seconds – 60 seconds.

Easy to say in hindsight when your legs have started to recover.

what’s gone on with Chad then? any speculation

I’ve been reading that today, probably best not to speculate but it seems serious one way or another. I felt Nate was emotional & drained behind the facade of the announcement.

I mean he looked like shit on the announcement, but his personal life has been difficult, and not 2/3 podcasts ago he mentioned mixing up his adhd meds and his sleepers, so what’s Nate and whats because of the announcement? covid killed the podcast, was better when it was then together in a room rather than remote, it’s rumbled on but never the same, but maybe after 400+ episodes it played it’s part, I stopped tuning in when it go too focused on cape epic, which coincided with Nate not uploading anything to Strava until last month, there was rumours of him selling up last year, maybe the boat has been missed and it’s now shit street with the post covid downturn

Nates clearly at a different point in his life than when the “journey” started,

Hi All

Doubtless a stupid question but does Trainerroad “count” Zwift rides automatically or do I need to manually match the Zwift ride to a Trainerroad workout (like with an unplanned outdoor ride) for Trainerroad to account for the Zwift rides in its calculations?

I assumed it automatically counted them but I’ve just had a dawning realisation that maybe not…