So many of us are all too familiar with lovely bits of technical descent or climb being bulldozed and covered in 3m wide flat hardpack. But what's the alternative? Trails need to be maintained otherwise they'll turn in to a muddy eroded mess, but the current approach just seems too unsympathetic and heavy handed...?
Bike Forum
Trail Sanitisation - what to do
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Posted 6 months ago #
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take up golf?
Posted 6 months ago # -
relax - its cyclical, paths will erode, will be repaired and then erode again or will settle down into a sustainable path.
Its simply not sustainable to leave paths as eroded messes
Posted 6 months ago # -
shit i agree with tj
Posted 6 months ago # -
Stay off em, footpaths are more fun..
Posted 6 months ago # -
Agree here too - as a trail builder I often have similar arguments with riders. Do you think I actually want to ride gravel hardcore too? No id much rather leave it but riding through a boggy mess just isnt much fun either.
Normally the gravel will bed down and get a bit green growth in it, maybe a bit moss etc. We have some old gravel paths that you dont even notice anymore that now drain perfectly and blend in fine.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Let's not forget how much these ' improvements' cost.
There are a million things that need sorting before the councils ruin our favourite tracks. It's happening all over Surrey , yet our roads remain a disgrace and the hospitals a mess.Posted 6 months ago # -
Why do they all have to be 2 or 3m or whatever? Plenty of bridleways are not that wide
I find the surface they put down after they've done is often worse or a lot worse to walk/ride/horse ride on. Fist sized loose limestone or similar it not upto scatch IMO
Though I prefer it before, the work they've done up on Houndkirk Moor (nr. Ringinglow/Foxhouse nr. Sheffield) isn't huge stone and they've at least tried to bed it in. some sections they've left what their 3m wide 'new' path 1ft above the old one won't stretch wide enough to cover, so some of the old rocky path is still there. It has ~1m^3 sized boulders ever so often presumable to discourage 4x4s form veering off the new path.
Could they leave the 'best' bits of path alone somehow? At least leave the exposed bedrock, fill in the ruts and bogs, put in drainage ditches/gullies etc if it HAS to be donePosted 6 months ago # -
"No id much rather leave it but riding through a boggy mess just isnt much fun either"
I don't have big issue with boggy messes, I can see the drainage/surface need sorting. But many non boggy tracks get levelled tooPosted 6 months ago # -
Of particular concern to me are works in Leeds and Bradford. E.g. Baildon moor. There's a path near me that was in reasonable condition except a 20m section of bog, so the council hardpack 1km of bw, but guess what, 2 years on and the boggy bit is returning. So my argument would be spend the time/money on the bog and leave the remaining 0.98km of sustainable trail alone.
Similarly Baildon had some boggy bits, but most of it was ok.
Posted 6 months ago # -
write to your MP or maybe the daily mail.
Posted 6 months ago # -
I should add that both Leeds and Bradford have *a lot* of things to prioritise over trail maintenance.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Get in touch with your RoW peeps
http://www.bradford.gov.uk/bmdc/contact_us/contact_us_by_telephone/rights_of_way_contact_details
They are bike friendly.
Ginny at CTC is also very proactive in the Baildon area.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Posted 6 months ago #
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Do you know what happened with that bw? Not sure if it affects the route I'd normally take around that area but any downgrade is bad news. Am I right in thinking though that there's a time limit to contesting the definitive map, and that limit is imminent? Either way I'll stick to my own interpretation of what I should ride until something changes.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Let's not forget how much these ' improvements' cost.
There are a million things that need sorting before the councils ruin our favourite tracks. It's happening all over Surrey , yet our roads remain a disgrace and the hospitals a mess.Not just "our" tracks. They are shared with other users. The selfishness of some people.
Posted 6 months ago # -
indeed. One persons technical trail is another persons eroded mess
Posted 6 months ago # -
"Improved tracks" can be further improved by the Midnight Motocrosser...
Just a hint
Posted 6 months ago # -
I believe it's heading for some kind of review.
Posted 6 months ago # -
wasn't there a thread on this recently..?
stating that if you contact your rights of way officer as a representative of a user group then it's possible to at least begin to discuss management appropriate to the main user regarding specific RoWs.. Kind of on a democratic basis.. so if no-one pipes up they leave it.. but if mainly wheelchair users and horsey types speak with them they bulldoze it.. I wander what might happen if MTBers made themselves heard..?
something along those lines
Posted 6 months ago # -
Ditch the skill compensator and go fully rigid?
Posted 6 months ago # -
I actually had a dream last night that they sanitised that trail next to lantern pike that comes out by the little mill inn
Posted 6 months ago # -
stating that if you contact your rights of way officer as a representative of a user group then it's possible to at least begin to discuss management appropriate to the main user regarding specific RoWs..?
There is no place for offering practical advice about how people can get involved with the problems they see around them in the real world. What's wrong with just posting about it on an internet forum and leaving it there?
Posted 6 months ago # -
Ok Mr Sonor, the best track around my way has been done. In the years I have ridden it I have only seen 2 walkers on it.
At a cost of £25000 it is now a 10 ft wide gravel trap. Wheels just don't work on it. So that's stuffed any potential wheel chair users or pram pushers. So who's being selfish now? This is supposed to be a mountain bike website after all.Posted 6 months ago # -
i looked at getting involved with the local access group. a quick look at the meeting schedule revealed meetings held on a tuesday morning etc. hardly conducive to getting the public involved, but i'm sure very convenient for the coucil employees.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Trail Sanitisation - what to do?...
phone up your mates who have a BSO in the shed, the people who keep saying 'i'd love to get out on it more, but...' etc.
and take them out on a nice bike ride.
Posted 6 months ago # -
but i'm sure very convenient for the coucil employees.
don't we already have a very enthusiastic young member of the D-Mo massive on that group..? I'm sure someone was telling me about it the other week..
Posted 6 months ago # -
Find some new singletrack - don't tell everyone
Posted 6 months ago # -
Yunki,
he wasn't at the time on the list of members that i looked at, and i haven't seen him in a few months, so maybe he is now. interesting. i'll have to give the hobbity one a poke. be very good if he is and i remember being surprised that he hadn't got himself on there, but similarly at the time, that particular group ( devon ) had most recently looked to get more landowners involved, rather than mountain bikers, though horse riders and walkers were represented.....
i think he was involved in one that more specifically related to the trust, and their land. it would be useful if he was on the county council one too.Posted 6 months ago # -
It's not just about "sanitising" or upgrading paths, sometimes it's genuinely done badly- loose gravel tops, 3 metre wide motorways that are totally unsympathetic to the local area... All to often nobody's happy with the end result and that's a problem- it's one thing to "lose" a trail when other people benefit but not when it ends up a mess for everyone.
The trouble is just that different groups want different things from their paths and that's hard to accomodate. Impossible, maybe.
Posted 6 months ago # -
Yunki yep it was rangerbill I think who said to speak to local RoW team and tell them about good trails, something I vowed to do....and so far still haven't
Posted 6 months ago # -
I know I always bang on about it, its still worth repeating: -
There is only a statutory responsibility for bridleways to be of a standard suitable for horses, although the appropriateness of the path for bikes is of course considered. It is a balancing act but ultimately it’s all about the horses; this is why some bridleways are resurfaced so that they effectively become sanitised for bikers.
But as TJ said, give it a few months and it'll bed in. There is also the problem with funding: -
There are a million things that need sorting before the councils ruin our favourite tracks
I agree in principle, but local authorities generally get given extra funding from central government for improvements of this type (called a ROWIP) as a Rights of Way Departments normal funding is a fraction of a percent of the authorities general expenditure.
My baseline (pre-ROWIP grants) RoW budget is around £75, 000 (thats nothing in the scheme of things and typical of the level of funding across the country), so I tend to look at it from the other perspective and ask why is the highways department spending for example £75, 000 on speed bumps (or road calming, or whatever its called) on road XYZ when I could put it to much better use? Or meals on wheels could double their provision? Or it could pay for 5 classroom assistants? At the end of the day each department is given £X,000 as thats what the lead members (who are democratically elected) decide.
As I go on to mention in my article, RoW departments are told by central government at the very last minute when (or if) they will get extra money. We get told in February that you have £60, 000 extra this April and it MUST be spent by next April - yes, this means that sometimes projects are rushed and mistakes are made, but if it means bringing a majority of those 'wish list' contingency projects up and running then so be it. There are only 5 of us (really not meaning to sound hard-done to!) and we genuinely do our best.
If you're not happy please get in touch with your PRoW team and bring it up with the LAF, which neatly brings me on to: -
i looked at getting involved with the local access group. a quick look at the meeting schedule revealed meetings held on a tuesday morning etc. hardly conducive to getting the public involved, but i'm sure very convenient for the coucil employees
The council has ZERO say on what or how a LAF operates - thats the whole point of a LAF, as an independent oversight committee made up of the public to make sure the RoW department gets things right, and when/if we mess up they are (in my LAF, and also my experience of my neighbouring LAF's) on us like a tonne of bricks.
Like yunki says: -
contact your rights of way officer as a representative of a user group then it's possible to at least begin to discuss management appropriate to the main user regarding specific RoWs..?
Please ring your RoW department and get involved - make our voices heard!
Posted 6 months ago # -
Duggan - that was no dream but a hideous nightmare.
Sad thing is it's probably only a matter of time.
Posted 6 months ago # -
i just took a look at the devon countryside access forum site and checked that i wasn't just making stuff up. of the few meetings in their list i looked at, all the minutes show that they took place during working hours in the week. it just put me off, that's all.
sorry it didn't take much!
devon laf meeting minutes listPosted 6 months ago # -
Ok Mr Sonor, the best track around my way has been done. In the years I have ridden it I have only seen 2 walkers on it.
So, and what?
At a cost of £25000 it is now a 10 ft wide gravel trap. Wheels just don't work on it. So that's stuffed any potential wheel chair users or pram pushers.
I can presume this is a bridleway with no car parks nearby? So why would there be wheelchairs or prams? What about the other users, such as ramblers and horse riders? Of course your reply of:
So who's being selfish now?
Means that those users don't count. It's only me, me, me.
Posted 6 months ago #
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