Chipps’ editorial in the latest mag got me a bit annoyed. I’m not normally one for getting wound up about something in a mag but in this case I have done.

Chipps, you’re calling for us to rise up and do something – but you’ve completely overlooked all the folks on this very forum who have done just that in whatever way to get folks riding together.

The last pootle had over 30 riders of all abilities out enjoying the trails and was done ‘not just for my own benefit’. (In fact, we also raised £40+ for Edale Mountain Rescue in a whip round too).

I can think a number of others who sort out rides just for the love of doing it…

Northern Chapters by Ton(?)
Swinley Sexy Party (Phil)
Peaks Pootles (me)
Photography pootles (Jules/nbt)

If the pootles are anything to go by, these rides have created contacts, friendships and the communinity you suggest doesn’t exist.
We’ve even had ‘youngsters’ learning from old hands and grow into better riders from what I’ve seen.

I agree with what you’re saying Chipps, but it’s a shame you’ve not recognised what’s already been/being done close to home.

you’ve not recognised what’s already been/being done close to home.

Has he?

I thought he was bemoaning the lack of organised clubs with an official membership who are ‘engaging with local stakeholders’ to get MTB riding on the radar when considering countryside access and issues.

The ‘group of like minded individuals going for the odd ride’ was pretty ,uch covered by his description of current approach most people take?

Having said that Brighton-mtb and sussexmuddyarse seem to be doing exactly what I said in point 1) for their local woods (Stanmer and Tilgate).

Maybe I’ve been a bit strong. Grr.

But there’s loads being done by folks out there from what I can see.

re: engaging with groups – RideSheffield are doing that up here.

As a true STW’er i have not read that article and even if i did it would not change my opinions one bit. To be fair, i don’t want to ride with any of you.

I can see what he was getting at in the piece but it is a slightly glib observation as the road scene hasn’t suddenly popped fuelled by a load of inspired bikers. It’s grown over the years and become steeped in tradition. I think a better tack would have been to propose infecting the road scene/clubs with MTB rather than continuing the boring old segregation tack. After all, it’s all cycling ain’t it?

I used to organise rides in the borders for folk off of here. Had some pretty decent turn outs.

I thought he was bemoaning the lack of organised clubs with an official membership who are ‘engaging with local stakeholders’ to get MTB riding on the radar when considering countryside access and issues

PMBA, Singletraction, Bristol Trails Group, trogmtb… to name but a few*

*not read the article either, waiting for my prem access to begin…

But I don’t much want to ride in club. Clubs involve a lot of admin, paper work and other stuff which is not riding a bike. I agree it maybe necassary to bring about change. But its a shame. I just wanna ride my bike…

I do it for the lovin’, big man. Grrr…

but I’ve also got off my arse and stood up as IMBA rep for my area. I might not build trails, but I’m a recognisable contact point for the local authority. I’m not the only either. I’m not a member of a club though, and – well groucho marx is all I need to say.

I’ve had beer, can you tell?

Chipps made a completely valid point I think. Easiest way to put it into practice would be to start /join/help an mtb group attached to your local cycling club I reckon.

I bought my first “proper” (adults) bike in 1992. A year in to my first professional job, living in a small regional city with good access to the countryside.

It was a road bike, as to me mtbs were heavy and expensive. By 1994 I’d bought a lovely Gary Fisher Tassajarra 🙂
I loved riding the road bike, but wanted absolutely no part in the “closed” club scene that was an integral part of road riding. My job required late nights / working away and the whole club structure was never going to happen.

I don’t see that things are any different today. Many, many riders just don’t want to do their riding as part of a club – just witness the popularity of sportives – road riding without the rules (mtbing without the mud?)

This is one of the main appeals of mtbing for those that choose mtb over road riding

Wait, it’s compulsory to join a club if you own a road bike? I’ve never once been on a road ride with anyone else. I’ve ridden in more organised MTB rides than road. Not sure what your point is.

Again, I’ve not read the article but in my limited experience or road clubs, it seems to be the organisation and committee member mentality that makes them less fun places to be.

It’s the informal nature of mountain biking that’s so appealing. What the likes of Chris and Jules do in the peaks is great and about as organised as I personally want it to ever get.

I’ve just stopped being a member of my local club. I didn’t feel I got enough value for money from my subs, and was rarely around for the few trips that they ran in a year. It was only really worth it for weekly night rides ,and most of those guys I catch up with anyway. Tbh, as a busy freelancer, committing to regular rides was never going to work, and I didn’t really like the politics, but lacked the time to properly engage and do anything about it…

I can see how well run clubs can work for some, and esp for roadies, but prob not for me.

Pook , I’m up in Manchester the next couple of weekends – are you running a pootle like last year? Much more my style 🙂

eviljoe – there isn’t one on the next couple of weekends unfortunately. There might have been but I’ve been off the bike for ages with various problems – mainly weddings!

Next one is looking like October…..

Boo, shame 🙁

Nevermind- you’ll just have to honeymoon back on Exmoor!

Hey Joe – how’s it going? Don’t suppose you’re doing the Exmoor Enduro next weekend are you?

Pook D2D is on 6 October, please don’t organise the Pootle for this weekend! I have time owed on a bike from a long summer of holiday selling/administering.

flyingmonkeycorps- dammit we’re ships that pass in the night! Off to Manc tomorrow- Enjoy Exmoor…be grand to catch up the weekend after for a ride? (22nd-23rd?)

Pook, firstly noone is denying the Good Thing that thos eorganised rides are 🙂

However when I read the editorial (the only bit I’ve read so far) I interpreted it differently.

Chipps is (in my interpretation) saying that there is no club structure for people to engage with to start riding.

Want to go road riding? There are local clubs. Ask the the bike shop, they’ll put you in touch. Find their website and get in touch with the admin/secretary or someone else.

I imagine it’s similar for lots of other sports.

In my area it’s no so dissimilar for MTB clubs. We have some very well organised clubs, a few of whom I’ve ridden with (Mid Air Crisis, Beamish Oddsox, Kielder Trailreavers). However the level of ease with which newbies can come out is not the same.

Joe – gutted! And even worse, I’ll not be riding the weekend after as we have friends visiting from the States…

Mrs Monkey has friends that’ve just moved to Bournemouth and grandparents in Poole however, so we will be heading that way on a semi regularish basis

Someone once described trying to organise cyclists like herding cats.
The road bikers seem to have the whole sunday ride team strip cafe thing well sorted. MTBers seem more of the small group brigade – and maybe no bad thing given trail congestion.
Bottom line is that organising something takes time and can be a thankless task. Until you have done it you don’t realise the effort it takes to keep running rides, dealing with membership, legal kak, formal meetings etc. As a member of the Leeds Cycle group (road mainly and local lobbying) it’s amazing to see so many people giving up their free time to actually *do* something. I have also managed to join the Local Access Forum (group dealing with footpaths, bridleways, local strategy etc). There was no cycling representation so I thought, why not get involved? Clearly I am not going to be able to convert Leeds into a massive off-road velodrome in a couple of months but I might be able to chip away at improving and increasing bridleways etc. If you look at where cyclists have got more organised, sadly often as a direct result of a tragedy, it has had an effect, viz London, and the Times’ campaign. Basically, it won’t happen on it’s own – change is up to us.

I tried to join an MTB club in London at one point. They invited me along for an evening ride with the caveat that if I wasn’t able to keep up they’d drop me (this was on a “new members welcome” sort of ride). Given it was in an area I didn’t know, I didn’t fancy getting stuck out at night without any idea where I was.

I’m not currently a member of any club these days, I’ve previously been a member of a couple of MTB clubs and really enjoyed riding/digging with mates, but the politics and power struggles in clubs does ruin it to a certain extent over time.

I’ve started going on the odd group road ride lately with a couple of mates, not with a club, just a few mates churning out some miles (Often via a pub), I have to say the social side to Road riding with mates rather than a club is actually quite a good draw IMO.
I’m still not interested in joining a proper Road club, I’m not looking towards getting in to road racing, TTs or serious training TBH, but a nice Saturday or sunday morning ride with some mates now and then is ideal.

I think that is what will actually draw people into Road or MTB clubs, a more social, less race focussed Club is what a lot of new comers to any sport/disipline will be looking for, if they join and straight away its all about commitees and beasting people into races then I think that would serve to put a fair few off, a news letter packed with up-comming organised rides, Night rides, informal get togethers thats what a new entrant will be encouraged by…

a “Strong” club is a social one, not one with a small core comiteee that always seems to have the same faces and, just ropes members in to bulk out race numbers and marshalling support then ignores them till the next event…

All IMO of course…

Joe, mail me for details of rides if you have a bike and are keen to get out

Chipps is (in my interpretation) saying that there is no club structure for people to engage with to start riding.

I think that is just part of what he’s saying. The informal, social side of MTBing exists and, as can be seen in the pages of this forum, is alive and well. What has slipped off the radar is the structure to bring on young talent into XC racing. Downhill is going strong, enduro seems to be growing but XC racing just hasn’t got the glamour of its two younger brothers.
British Cycling has its Go-Ride scheme which I’m surprised Chipps didn’t mention or research but, like any scheme it requires volunteers to pick up the baton and run with it within existing clubs. Pootles, groups of buddies, adrenalin-fuelled weekends of fun on MTBs are out there but the structure to bring on young XC racers is weak. I reckon that’s where Chipps was going with this one. Maybe 8)

psling – I think you’re right. It just seemed a shame to not mention the (albeit informal) efforts that are being made.

Not read the article yet so may be a bit wide of the mark, but in response to this :

wwaswas – Member
I thought he was bemoaning the lack of organised clubs with an official membership who are ‘engaging with local stakeholders

If that is one key reason for founding new MTB clubs we firstly have to respect the rules that currently exist.

This means making some some concessions in sensitive and crowded areas. Riding cheeky trails and footpaths because “it’s after 6pm” or “after dark” as some unwritten rule won’t wash.

Creating a club that is visible and that is perceived to have some control/responsibility in the community will attract the attention of landowners and park authorities and will be perceived as the place to address concerns such as these.

The question then becomes – who wants to be the visible face of MTB riders in a particular area?

What tyres does the club use?

I think he’s absolutely right. What mountain biking is lacking in this country is the establishment of a rigid and formal structure. We need to put some officious self-important types in place at the head of these structures. We need people who are fastidious about order in all things, and also unhealthily interested in building a pointless power-base for themselves in order to shore up the nagging inadequate feelings that keep them awake at night

They can then establish some committees, taking care to appoint people who aren’t quite clever enough to be threatening, in order to have lots and lots of meetings to establish some rules. Then lots and lots more meetings to establish yet more rules. Everyone then taking part in the sport in any way could then sign up to these rules, on pain of death. To be assessed bi-monthly at more meetings. There should be more meetings, probably weekly, to constantly review the rules.

Only when all this is in place can people look as happy, joyful, and care-free as all the road clubs riders I see

We started an MTB only club in Sherwood Pines in 2010. We are at 140+ members now.

We have plenty of rides weekly and do not adopte the keep-up-or-dropped elitism. (Hey it’s all relative, there is always someone faster than the fast guys.)

We have socials, events and special ride-outs as well as weekly rides that anyone can join member or not.

After being chairman for a year, I moved on and let the club evolve. It’s still doing pretty well and for £20 I can’t think of better value for our area.

Still … on the downside you get pushed from pillar to post by every organisation going for marshals and event staff. You spend hours a week doing admin and promoting the club. And at the end of it you just realise you want to ride. Do you need a club for that? Perhaps some don’t but a lot do and like the motivation of fixed rides and people badgering them.

I think MTB only clubs need more of a presence and the people to do it come from within. Give it a go!

SFB to the forum

I am loving the I dont buy the mag or subscribe but let me pitch in with my opinion…perhaps we should save these for when folk moan it is not a democracy

I have not read it yet

I have taken noobs out but even on tamish trails it can be like ruining a ride just to watch someoen push a bike uphil and then push it down hill. Worse is when they have no sense of danger or their own skill level.

I think most of us are not into massive groups

Lol at binners. You are so right.

I think establishing XC/DH clubs would help young folk get into the sport. But as a near-middle-aged-middle-class-professional-weekend-warrior, would hate to join that kind of club. Our “stealth” club is just a small, informal group of riding friends for sharing company, trails, clearance effort and beers. No fees, no leadership, no structure, no politics, no AGMs, no commitments, no “presence”. Just riding.

I am loving the I dont buy the mag or subscribe but let me pitch in with my opinion…

Who, where?

I’ve been a member of Roadie Clubs, MTB Clubs and Sailing Clubs..

I can’t think of anything worse than an MTB Club. Honestly it just doesn’t work, once rules are in place it falls apart and invariably rests on the shoulders of one person to/who organises everything and anything. I dropped out of my local MTB club for this very reason and now ride with mates who too dropped out. IMO we ride better in a smaller group of like minded individuals rather than a “welcome all” environment.
Don’t dismiss my opinion as non inclusive, I am totally into that, just not now where all I want to do is ride hard..

Sailing clubs are just full to the brim of internal and external politics, you don’t even want to go there chaps.

I’ve just joined a fairly large club (50+?) this year for the first time. We meet every sunday (and any other day possible) to engage in topical, non-offensive debate, not drink beer and not set fire to stuff. sometimes we ride bikes a bit.

Clubs work fine in Manchester, not as described at all.

If the sport needs clubs to give it the sort of structure that would lead to influence in decisions that affect where people can ride etc, the solution might be to look at the reason clubs exist in other sports.

They usually exist so you can take part in team competition. With MTB you can sign up to do SITS with whoever you like, the same event in road riding or running you’d need to be part of the same affiliated club. So to do these events people need to be in a Club, so club’s exist.

If that’s what the sport needs, there’s an obvious solution. This place would go into meltdown though if British Cycling started telling people who they could and couldn’t race with!

bikebuoy has it, most roadie clubs are full of miserable gits more intent on politics and ensuring any newcomers are ‘taught their place’ than having a laugh. Hence triathlon being so popular, no stupid roadie rules.

Clubs and fun don’t mix. MTB is all about fun.

We meet every sunday (and any other day possible) to engage in topical, non-offensive debate, not drink beer and not set fire to stuff.

I’ll only ride with drunken, argumentative arsonists 😀

The problem with that article – and the one that largely makes it irrelevant to me – is that it repeatedly uses the word “sport”. For the vast majority of mountain bike owners, it’s not a sport it’s simply a past-time.

Is the goal to have more folk winning at XC racing – or to have a greater say in government/council policy regarding cycling and cycle facilities? If it’s the latter then surely we should be encouraging folk to join something like CTC?