PMBA, Singletraction, Bristol Trails Group, trogmtb… to name but a few*

I’m sure he talked to all these groups before writing the article 😉

We are unusual as we are a loose collection of people who decided to do something. That’s resulted in 20 mtb XC races in the last 4 years, we are affiliated to BC for insurance purposes and 80%+ of the competitors don’t have a BC racing licence.

If you want to join us that’s great (we want new members) as long as you are committed to putting on the race series and supporting local charities and encouraging people to race their bikes. We don’t have a riding section/ team, we just ride bikes. We have given free coaching sessions (by someone competent not me) to racers and marshals from the series and generally try do what we can to create a friendly focus for all.

most roadie clubs are full of miserable gits more intent on politics and ensuring any newcomers are ‘taught their place’ than having a laugh

To be honest I don’t know why people make a big thing about “x” type of club is unwelcoming etc. There’s plenty of choice out there and if you don’t like the choice form your own £60-70 to affiliate to BC or CTC (BC for racing, CTC for access and general riding around), couple of hours in the pub doing the start up forms and setting up the faceache page and you are off, club formed, the world engaged. Max admin is the annual cheque for renewal of the affiliation, split it equally and spend the rest of your money on beer and bike bits.

Binners – you need a TV show 🙂

Of all the cyclists I know, very few are actually members of any sort of club or organisation. Those that are, belong to road racing clubs, where I can see that there needs to be an organised structure for racing and results etc. As for other cycling activities, I and several people I know have been organising rides with others for years, and there’s no more organisation than maybe some emails and texts sent of where to meet etc. This seems to work perfectly well, and doesn’t make participants feel obliged to do anything, and not feel pressured to please other ‘club’ members. We just join up for bike rides, whether they be quite rides on country lanes, a jaunt around town from pub to pub, or weekends somewhere wild and rugged for mtb fun. None of us feel the need for any more ‘structure’, as the existing status quo works perfectly well.

It seems that there is an obsession with organisation, rules and beauraucracy in this country; you have to be a ‘member’ in order to participate. My experience of sporting clubs is that they are often run by people who like to control everything, and tend to revolve around those individuals, rather than exist for the benefit of all members. Many don’t seem to last very long, as most people naturally don’t really like rigid, regimented structures for their leidure activities.

I think cycling should just be something you can ‘do’, whoever you are, rrather rthan a movement you need to ‘bleong’ to.

+1 – except that being organised into a collective can make it easier to get your voice heard when it comes to developing and improving things.

Some good points up there. I think clubs do have an important place, but why not have a “cycling club” rather than a road club and another MTB club? Most roadies I know enjoy riding mountain bikes too. Bring the BMXers in too…that’ll shake up the old guard 🙂

Yes mike imagine what good you could achieve if you and a few like minded individuals got together in order to improve things and have your voice heard via say a protest or actual organisation very loose affiliation of like minded individuals doing a carnival procession 😉

Aren’t clubs just for folk who don’t already have any of their own friends?

I think the article was fairly spot on although it did rather miss the opportunity to big up what already exists, even locally, PMBA, Brownbacks, Gisburn Trail Builders, Singletraction etc. You don’t have to create your own club, just give a bit of support to those (few) who have got off their backsides and done something.

It’s quite gratifying to see how many people have heard of PMBA, we just need a bit more interaction now from local riders. All that’s often needed is to join the group (PMBA membership is a fiver, it’s the fact you’ve put your hand in your pocket that counts, not the amount), turn up to the odd meeting and in PMBA’s case actually leave some feedback on the website (please) so we can get some debate going. For those few people (and it is the same core of 20 people building Gisburn, running PMBA, keeping the Brownbacks series going, driving Singletraction) things can get a bit lonely.

None of us feel the need for structure

no you probably don’t but trails centres don’t build themselves, race series don’t just happen, access issues don’t just get resolved and money doesn’t just suddenly appear for new trails.

Can’t believe we’ve not had this quote yet…

I Don’t Want to Belong to Any Club That Will Accept Me as a Member

Aren’t clubs just for folk who don’t already have any of their own friends?

Not sure whether that was meant tongue-in-cheek or not. It’s as valid a reason as any for clubs existing. How do you meet like-minded people when you move to a new area?

How do you meet like-minded people when you move to a new area?

Duh. Obviously you never leave Royston Vasey where you were born and raised. You don’t want to mix with any of those repulsive and terrifying outsiders, they might eat your children (or widen your horizons).

How do you meet like-minded people when you move to a new area?

I wander around the streets, randomly shaking hands with people and offering them a swig of my White Lightning

I wander around the streets, randomly shaking hands with people and offering them a swig of my White Lightning

I do that too; we should start a club

I always wondered how you and hora had met

I have heard Hora’s white lightining is very beautiful

White Lightning, you posh t**ts.

no you probably don’t but trails centres don’t build themselves, race series don’t just happen, access issues don’t just get resolved and money doesn’t just suddenly appear for new trails.

In fairness, this type of activity is enjoyed by a relatively very small number of cyclists, but I agree that proper organisation has it’s place. Perhaps social media such as Facebook can play a role in providing cyclists with a collective voice for when such issues arse?

Freudian slip

Aren’t clubs just for folk who don’t already have any of their own friends?

Not sure whether that was meant tongue-in-cheek or not. It’s as valid a reason as any for clubs existing. How do you meet like-minded people when you move to a new area?

It was mean’t as a joke, I suppose i should have used a 😉

We will survive and thrive as we currently are, Chipps point was that we will always be in the shadow of road biking without the club infrastructure. I think this is true.

I think Chipps point is what happens to a 10 year old kid who saw the racing at Hadleigh, and decided they wanted to have a go. At this point unless they have a parent / relative / older brother, etc. there’s very little in the way of structure for them to go through. BC have a setup at the top level, and through Go Ride have riding for all but there is no ‘competitive’ structure that younger participants can access.

If you want to have a go at swimming, or cricket or athletics or… there’s a whole structure to access where you can join clubs, get coaching, gain experience. Most of which are staffed by adult volunteers who are giving back something to a sport they love, for the future success of that sport. Some might be parents, but from experience many are not, or may be parents of the past whose kids are now grown up too but they continue to volunteer and contribute for the benefit of the next generation.

These loose Facebook style affiliations that many MTBers belong to are essentially selfish, they serve your needs and no-one else’s. I think that’s Chipp’s point.

It’s time we all got out and did something that wasn’t just for
our own benefit. Cycling is in the spotlight and mountain biking
still lurks in the shadows.

The legacy of these games won’t be the medal haul, or the world class facilities; it’ll be measured by a general increase in the exercise levels of the population and by inspiring our kids to get off the PS or Wii or whatever it is they do and go and ride a bike or go for a run or join a swimming club. If that’s important to you, now’s the time to do something about it. And at the very least, if someone else does have the gumption to start a club or run an event then do them the courtesy of stopping all the sneering and laughing about the ‘types of people who run/join clubs’ because without them, i don’t think we’d have seen a fraction of the medals that we won these past few glorious weeks.

In fairness, this type of activity is enjoyed by a relatively very small number of cyclists, but I agree that proper organisation has it’s place.

I think you’d be surprised by the number of riders who only use trail centres, plus access issues affect us even if you don’t think they do. We only need the landowners (who are much more organised) to decide to clamp down on mountain bikers and we’ll have some major issues.

I think you’d be surprised by the number of riders who only use trail centres,

I am not sure I would call someone who only uses trail centres a rider 😉

Now, now, we’re all in it together…..

We’re not far off being one huge club already. We have this place and others to communicate. We ride in places that have been accessed only with huge amounts of semi blazer wearing officialdom. We enter events that only go ahead because some poor sod has spent six months filling in forms. Even the cool ones that have beer require a licence that someone has gone to the trouble to get.
Not many of us are individuals.

Years back I was part of the Woburn Crankers which was an informal local/internet based outfit. It just seemed to strike it right. We did rides, beer, curries, 24’s, but also kept an eye on events local to us. Which was often just a case of keeping in with the local ranger.

Now I’m the founder member and chairman of the local road club. I’m trying to incorporate mountainbiking, but there doesn’t seem to much interest from the mountain bike fraternity. And one of the issues was trusting MTB’ers to behave when in a club jersey i.e no telling rangers to F off and annoying walkers on footpaths.

And a final note, I find large groups of MTBers very anti social. I remember organising STW rides years ago thinking they’d be great, but I just remember how annoying it was for the other countryside users.

These loose Facebook style affiliations that many MTBers belong to are essentially selfish, they serve your needs and no-one else’s. I think that’s Chipp’s point.

Interesting point. Totally bogus. The last thing kids need is me coaching them into all my bad habits. And if you want to ride with us in our local trails you only have to ask on here.

Can’t remember who to credit this quote to, but IMHO it’s about right – ‘To be effective, a committee should consist of no more than three people, two of whom should be absent..’

I reckon that typically applies to many clubs too. 😕

I’m not suggesting – far from it – that people should drop everything to set up as a kid’s club with coaching. And OK, I was stretching a point to make a point, I’m sure if I asked you’d be happy to let me tag along on a ride.

But what if some kid’s dad called you up and asked you if their 12 year old son could start joining your rides. He might not be able to keep up to start with and he gets tired after an hour but he has to start somewhere. Can i drop him off at yours and pick him up an hour later?

I guess not, because it doesn’t suit your requirements, in other words you are selfish. Maybe not unreasonably but isn’t that the definition, putting your needs before the needs of others (OED: concerned chiefly with one’s own personal profit or pleasure) But unbelievably there are people who will happily give up their time to do this, to help schools out setting up after hours MTB clubs, and to put other’s enjoyment before their own.

It’s a general, not a personal comment, but to all; don’t knock those that will, just because you won’t.

theotherjonv, very good shout.

Definitely some very valid points on here, mostly from theotherjonv. For years I played hockey. My maths teacher was the local club sec and put in an immense amount of work to bring through young players. Many of the club – myself included – volunteered to take the kids to local tournaments, help out with coaching and make them feel welcome in this sport we all loved. Without this – and clubs like it around the UK – we probably wouldn’t be fielding world class standard hockey teams in the world champs and the Olympics. None of us thought it was out of the ordinary to give up our time up to help these young ‘uns. It was all in the best interests of the sport and actually quite satisfying.

I totally get what Chipps is talking about.

Can i drop him off at yours and pick him up an hour later?

In fact, one club member is bringing his 12yo on Sundays ride. His first ride with big boys! I organised an STW ride a couple of years back and folks turned up with some little lads which I didn’t expect. They did half the route and had fun! We’re not exclusive but were not going to set up kids after school class either.

Nail on the head right there. As long as your Dad’s involved you can come too. What about all those kids whose Dad isn’t keen to get into it, or isn’t capable of committing the time and effort to support their kids. Shame on them, but does the kid deserve to be discarded as well?

I was secretary and welfare officer at my cricket club for years. Believe me, for every parent that’s prepared to give up a morning assisting with coaching or organising an age group team, there are 2 or 3 who think it’s a creche so they can read the papers for 3 hours on a sunday morning.

Could be completely wrong here but it’s the commitment that puts people off.

Actually, it’s quite interesting when volunteering – sometimes the people you least expect to help do actually turn up on a regular basis.

Apologies, I’m not really answering the original points made!

CG; I’m sure it is but no-one who stood on the podium at the Olympics would have stood there without the dedication and commitment of an army of support people. Parents, coaches, volunteers……

But it’s endemic in all the sports I’ve been involved with. A quote from elsewhere; the people who stand for committees are the people who should never be on committees. Many’s the time I offered to resign as club secretary based on that point, but oddly no-one ever wanted to take the role on, just to moan about how the committee weren’t doing it as they would have.

This is where clubs are good, if you have people to organise, then volunteers don’t have to commit as heavily as the same few people doing the whole task. eg: the local road club TT10. There are a couple of major junctions on the route, if everyone volunteers to marshall a junction or act as timekeeper once over the 10 week season, then you miss one week out of the season while everyone else rides, and vice versa. But you still need someone ‘in charge’ to draw up a rota.

bikebuoy has it, most roadie clubs are full of miserable gits more intent on politics and ensuring any newcomers are ‘taught their place’ than having a laugh.

Sounds like STW is a mtb club then…

Lol!

I get your point theotherjon. I see it in the running clubs and its social value. I just don’t think that formality or sport development angle is for us.

Just read it and it seems fair to me.

I don’t agree with this though

bikebuoy has it, most roadie clubs are full of miserable gits more intent on politics and ensuring any newcomers are ‘taught their place’ than having a laugh. Hence triathlon being so popular, no stupid roadie rules.

Most road clubs like mine have, as in our case. Thursday evening newcomers rides, Saturday Go-Ride for kids and a three tier Sunday ride. Those alone require a good few members give up their riding time to help.
I agree to an extent about having a laugh, but it is ‘road’ riding. So pub stops and having a good old giggle on the highway aren’t a brilliant idea.
I don’t know what stupid roadie rules are to be honest?

Hence triathlon being so popular, no stupid roadie rules.

Try undoing your helmet before you are allowed to when doing a Tri, then talk to me about stupid rules…

Don’t like doing the club thing. Hate having to go at specific times rather than when I want. Hate being at the back when the really fit folk ride off. Hate having the route chosen by someone else. Usually enjoy the banter with the folk but it’s not enough to mask the downs.

Riding alone or with a few friends is where it’s at for me.

Sorry I’m a bit late to the party – you’ve been having a fine time without me though (and eaten all the Twiglets!)

This was the kind of debate I was hoping to generate… I did do some research (only 17% of STW members are in a local mountain bike club. Yes, there are 14% ‘some other yes’ answers, which I take to be ‘We’re not actually a club, but we’re a bunch of mates who meet regularly’), I do know about the fine efforts of GoRace and GoRide and the excellent clubs like Brownbacks and Singletraction who help put on races and build trails, but it’s by far the minority. I’ve also spoken to BC, Scottish Cycling and I’m also a race organiser myself… Many of the points I was trying to put over have been raised above – and very well.

I reckon the main gist of what I was trying to get over is:
Having some ‘official’ local face of mountain biking really helps when the council want to come and flatten your local trails – it doesn’t have to be a club with a charter and a committee, but it needs to be official enough that the council/landowners recognise and respect it.

And, without a club structure and hierarchy, ALL of our promising young riders will get siphoned off into road and track programmes if we’re not careful. If you’re a good rider, BC scouts aren’t going to push you towards mountain biking because it is still, at heart, a road and track organisation – and yet we wonder why we only had one guy and one girl in our own home mountain biking event.

No, we don’t need clubs to go and ride trails, have fun or enjoy the countryside, but if we don’t have something at least vaguely in place throughout the country, we can’t complain when we don’t have future mountain bike champions and when our trails are ‘improved’ without us being consulted, because who are ‘us’ anyway?

This bit from Road.cc kind of illustrates one of my points: “Newport Velodrome has been swamped by requests by people desperate to try their hand at track cycling, thanks to the Olympic cycling successes over the summer.” – so where do they go if they’re desperate to try mountain biking?