[Closed] The road disk debacle continues - banned from French Sportives

I'd be happy with an exclusion zone for Disc Brake riders, I'd offer up they'll all be at the back shovelling 19gels, 22energy bars & 8 bags of haribos down their gullets whilst spinning up a 4% gradient to the 2 left turn on the course.

Sure they will bikebouy, some major insecurity coming out on these threads 😉

bikebouy - Member
I'd be happy with an exclusion zone for Disc Brake riders, I'd offer up they'll all be at the back shovelling 19gels, 22energy bars & 8 bags of haribos down their gullets whilst spinning up a 4% gradient to the 2 left turn on the course.

😀 probably whilst dragging their brakes.

Thankfully they normally keep thier Sportive number affixed to their bike, even after the event has finished; lets you know to give them a wide berth if you pass them on the roads.

I've got a disc Roubaix and if the above is to be believed i can't ride a bike. funny how same bike has covered 3000 miles this year to date, done the 189 mile Dragon Devil, the 310 mile Newcastle to London, the Paris Roubaix sportive, 200 mile Round Norfolk Epic, and yet to date i've not removed any limbs with it or died a horrible death (i do like Haribo) though.

What i can't understand is this "knee-jerk" reaction and pretty much overnight banning of disc brakes, what is happening about motorbikes at races, the only good thing that could come from the death of a young pro rider is hopefully improved safety around the riders from motorcycles and team cars, yet the reaction doesn't seem anything like as strong from the UCI and French cycling?

Do we now blunt chainrings, ban bladed spokes and the like too?

I think most people are misunderstanding the UCI's view; 2016 was only ever a trial year on discs, then an accident happened that may or may not have been caused by a disc, hence, discs are temporarily banned until the UCI concludes the investigation. I think that is a perfectly sensible approach, they aren't saying discs will be banned for ever, simply that the trial is on hold until the reports conclusion. Note the UCI haven't banned discs in mtb or cyclocross races, where they are no known issues.

The sportives which are operated under national federation control and hence, ultimately the UCI, are just upholding the UCI decision to cover their backs for the time being.

dragon, your voice of reason has no place on this thread! I said much the same thing about 3 pages ago 😉

Funny you mention CX though, where the benefits of discs should have a much greater impact on performance than for road, and yet many pro's don't seem bothered.

I'm all for Disc Brakes BTW, the ones on my CX'er work just fine 😆

With the horror stories I hear about carbon rims in the wet, I am surprised those are legal for use on the Queen's highways.

Ultimately this should come down to what the riders want and what the authorities want. Both of which take into account what sponsors and the public wants. But mainly taking into account the UCI's duty of care and the riders' right to make any demands / requests they want within reason as a group of workers.

I can't see why anyone should bemoan the suspension of the trial unless you've just bought shares in a company that specializes in pro-level disc brakes for road bikes. Seriously, did your viewing pleasure rise when discs turned up and now the races are less enjoyable again?

The UCI's duty of care is key here.

The idea that discs in the pro peloton - or french sportives - can't have different levels to discs in enduro or downhill is ludicrous. They might have the same level of risk, but to assume it with no evidence is risky.

We all expect progess, but we all accept that the UCI rules aren't 'anything goes'. Tiny weight bikes and funny shaped bikes are banned, because the UCI (rightly IMO) believes that uber light bikes and funny shaped bikes will not improve cycling (for riders or teams or sponsors or spectators) and might make it more dangerous. (I presume this is the reasoning or am I missing something?)

What are the benefits of discs? They're not going to stop crashes in the peloton, because the riders don't have the time to react let alone stop half the time. All they can possibly do is reduce braking times off mountains, which means riders will probably end up going faster, braking later and probably having the same number of crashes only at marginally faster speeds.

Dragon, You are pissing in the wind, The Motorbike Trial, Chorizo Trial, Spoke gate scandal trial and the brake lever, pedal, seat nose trial ALL take presidence over the Great Disk Brake Trial of 2016 because people cannot understand that these things that are being spouted about are generally accepted at, around or in a Cycle race because they have been part of a bike or at events for Years, these participants "PRO" riders have grown up with Spokes on wheels and pedals and seats and brake levers but are unfamiliar with Disk brakes, They probably see them as MTB cosmetic jewellery, anodized to match your socks or watch.

The change or introduction has probably happened a bit too fast for some, some who are in their last season before retirement, Vocal individuals who can persuade others who want the aesthetics of what they know as a ROAD bike to remain true, Usually in cycling the Pro's get the good stuff and it trickles down and mass produced which obviously pays for itself R&D, tooling, production etc, with the disk brake thing i feel its been cobbled together a bit too quick and there are some concerns which have been highlighted one way or another,

AND< to further fuel the fire, On a Road section downhill to set of traffic lights to be used on stage 2 of this years TDY i am faster on my 160mm travel 1X11 bike than i am on my Rim Braked road orientated CX Bike, because i can leave it and leave it right up till the last seconds before braking, where as heavy braking on the rims is proper ass puckering stuff as the forks start juddering and the rear wheel tries to wave about.....
But at least i'll be killed by a bus at a cross roads before Disk brakes get me.

Put some super tacky's on yer CX bike 😉

And Ryder Hesjedal nailed the whole issue in 4 words. Don't bother reading my last post.

#SafetyFirst #notnecessary

Really can't see the flaw in either argument, but used together they are supremely convincing IMHO.

Seriously, should the CI just take a chance and see what happens? Are disc brakes in any way necessary in the pro peloton?

DT, That's not a bad idea

🙂 no excuses for not staying upright then! They'll be mandatory in Sportives on the continent next season.

And Ryder Hesjedal nailed the whole issue in 4 words.

was he talking about the motor in his bike?

Are disc brakes in any way necessary in the pro peloton?

No.

Nor were gears, brakes, clipless pedals, etc, etc.

None of it is actually "necessary", they just represent this crazy thing called progress, you know, things getting better.

What about 5lb bikes and 24" front wheels and insane carbon frames? They are all progress - do you think the UCI is wrong to ban them?

The UCI is not anti progress (hence allowing gears etc), but it does not simply allow something because it is 'better' in some ways whilst not actually benefitting the sport overall.

Motors are progress but don't benefit the sport. Drugs are arguably 'progress' but we don't allow them either.

None of it is actually "necessary", they just represent this crazy thing called progress, you know, things getting better.

what like compact chain sets and 32t cassettes, like actual TDF winners use up some of the big mountains?

your CRAZY!!

anyone know where i can get a 5 speed cassette for my 120mm spaced rear wheel?

Well, anyone banned from a sportive can enjoy the simple pleasures of Audax with discs instead.

What about 5lb bikes and 24" front wheels and insane carbon frames? They are all progress - do you think the UCI is wrong to ban them?

The UCI is not anti progress (hence allowing gears etc), but it does not simply allow something because it is 'better' in some ways whilst not actually benefitting the sport overall.

Motors are progress but don't benefit the sport. Drugs are arguably 'progress' but we don't allow them either.

Which brings us back to the original point. The only 'evidence' we have so far that discs may not be good for the sport overall is the rather overwrought tirade from a rider who believes he has an injury caused by a disc, despite there being siginficant doubt as to whether this was actually the case. Other than that there just seems to be a prejudice against them from certain segments of the cycling population.

Flasheart, As they are "NOW" or as of The Paris Roubaix, Do you think Disks were as evolved and as refined an item as the Pro's would have expected? has the rest of the technology in Frame Design and aesthetics got to catch up? or are you happy with them as they are, good to go?

I feel "Me Personally" they are a bit Heath Robison, CX / Gravel meets XC orientated clunky fixings, The Bike industry rushes to get this out there because they know once its on the Pro team bikes "It's Selling" but actually overlooked some basic errors, Obviously there was a "trial" being conducted and no doubt some changes were or are to be made

kcr - Member
Well, anyone banned from a sportive can enjoy the simple pleasures of Audax with discs instead.

Can I race an Audax? Will I get a medal for finishing under a certain time?

We going again? 🙂

aesthetics

Grown men. In lycra. And you think aesthetics matter?

I feel "Me Personally" they are a bit Heath Robison [sic]....The Bike industry rushes to get this out there because they know once its on the Pro team bikes "It's Selling"

I take it you never tried any early clipless pedals? They were awful, unsafe rubbish. Still, they didn't ruin the classic lines so popular among people who grasp at "tradition" and say bidon instead of bottle.

imnotverygood - sorry, it doesn't bring us back to that point. It raises the legitimate questions which you have chosen to ignore.

Lots of things that could be described as progress are not allowed.

If you are going to play the progress card with no regard to genuine safety concerns (which may or may not be founded, and if are founded may or may not be surmountable), then surely you have to say that all types of progress are to be allowed.

I'm no expert on the precise history, but the UCI allowed gears and different frame materials and all sorts of progress. But in the peloton they decided that drop bars and frames had to be basically the same shape they always have been. They have every right to say "disc brakes might be progress, but progress is not always good for the sport." They seem not to be saying that, they;re just double cheking the safety issues as they pretty much have to unless they don't give a s*&% about the riders or getting sued.

Yes, I think aesthetics matter, Boardmans Lotus was at the time something new, something different but without the double triangle diamond traditional frame it lacked that traditional look, a traditional look, the look that we know is a bike and not just because it has two wheels.

And yes I remember the very first Clipless pedals,

I distictly remember not having to bend down whilst riding and loosen a buckle that would allow me to prise free my shoes from the outer edge of the pedal cage, one of the most unsafe methods of attaching feet to a bike i can think of, Baring Gaffa taping them on, And yes the first SPD's were aesthetically pleasing werent they, unlike Disks on road Bikes. i actually like the look of modern callipers,

Goes of to google Bidon, "I wondered what Sean Kelly kept mumbling on about" in between eating Chocolate and Crisps, SWhen did that name crop up? i've heard it mentioned but unwittingly didnt asssociate it with a 1980's Coca-Cola rred & White drinks Bottle.

as they pretty much have to unless they don't give a shit about the riders

Well they don't appear to be doing much about riders getting run over/killed by course motorbikes / cars so you have to wonder...

OFFS< The Motorbike "NONE" trial again,

Watch some OLD footage of Road Racing, You might be surprised how long that trial's been going on.

AND, they do have measures in place to TRY and minimise the risk, a course has to be taken and licence granted, The riders Must have been pro's and ridden in the Peleton to understand how it works, lines, corners etc, I'm not sure who or how this is controlled though. I only know that Disk brakes on road bikes are being trialled, But thats stopped now.

If we stopped Motorbikes then the Sport would crumble, i dont think we want that do we?
Medical, Security, POLICE, Neutral Service and last but not Least, CAMERAS,

I mean how would we know what was happening with no reporters, cameras, crew, i mean people could just make this shit up?

Lots of things that could be described as progress are not allowed.

i actually like the look of modern callipers

which one? some of which don't work particularly well

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

[img] [/img]

last but not Least, CAMERAS,

[img] [/img]

I like the ones that you Failed to picture, The traditional Campy Calliper or the Ultegra style ones.

The ones that could be assosciated with a traditional style of Bike.

I like the ones that you Failed to picture, The traditional Campy Calliper or the Ultegra style ones.

The ones that could be assosciated with a traditional style of Bike.

You aren't doing much except reinforcing the view that the real reason people don't want discs on road bikes is because it offends their sensibilities. The stuff about safety is just BS.

Re the progress argument. You could ask why we aren't all riding something like this...

[img] [/img]

Clearly you would have better braking with that setup.

You aren't doing much except reinforcing the view that the real reason people don't want discs on road bikes is because it offends their sensibilities.

But....but....TRADITION! AESTHETICS! TRADITION! CHAPEAU! BIDON! TRADITION!
🙁

My word, them spokes look bloody dangerous.......

Re the progress argument. You could ask why we aren't all riding something like this...

Clearly you would have better braking with that setup.

Er, been tried, was pointless. See also Super Monster T's, the Karpiel Apocalypse, "Alpine kits" and any one of a number of other OTT contributions over the years. It's not progress if it has a factor of redundancy far outstripping any progress liable to fill the gap.

On Boardmans Lotus - yet again offending sensibilities. See also Superman and Tuck positions as offered by Obree.

Oddly enough I don't remember anyone banning PRST1's despite their oddball design. Maybe we approch things with a more open mind in our world.

Squirrelking you are clearly a traditionalist Luddite 🙂

No one had to ban PRST1's, They did a good job of that themselves,

Who cares what the pros ride. I think it's great that bike manufacturers are making bikes for riders rather than racers now hence the new generation of stronger, slightly heavier, relaxed geometry bike with brakes that stop you and clearance for sensible size tyres.

I think it's great that bike manufacturers are making bikes for [s]riders[/s] chubby men who used to play rugby rather than racers now hence the new generation of stronger, slightly heavier, relaxed geometry bike with brakes that stop you and clearance for sensible size tyres.

I have to say that I think a lot of this negative reaction is down to fear of change. It is extremely analogous to the way some people reacted to the innovation of MTB suspension nearly 25 years ago and the really recent 650b introduction.

People understandably dislike the feeling that their pride and joy is being made obsolete and now is not a 'high performance' machine. People often distrust new technology.

It's not helped by the UCI being backward, resistant and stifling innovation.

Disc brakes are likely to be here to stay for road bikes*. Many, many riders will accept them**. A look at a standard change curve will show where we are currently with acceptance and where we will end up. Personally, I don't think the arguments here will change things either way. Like 650b it's likely to be a juggernaut...

Whether they are necessary is a different question. The ability to brake harder, later and with more control in all conditions can only be a good thing IMHO. People then have the ability to enhance their riding using the new technical capability and will again be differentiated on skill as they are now but riding harder and faster.

* UCI permitting
** I really prefer the look of road calliper brakes!

Nail head squirrelking

"Re the progress argument. You could ask why we aren't all riding something like this...

Clearly you would have better braking with that setup."

"Er, been tried, was pointless."

Precisely - two discs on an MTB front wheel are pointless, much like discs on a pro road bike are pointless.

When do pro road riders want or need more braking power?

How would more braking power improve the sport for anyone?

Why the fuss about roadies not using disc brakes when no-one bangs on about the numerous other progress-restricting rules?

Cutting down trees and building shopping centres is also "progress" by the 'new is always good' posters' logic, but I presume some people on here prefer that we keep some countryside as countryside.

I think it's great that bike manufacturers are making bikes for [s]riders[/s] chubby men who used to play rugby rather than racers now hence the new generation of stronger, slightly heavier, relaxed geometry bike with brakes that stop you and clearance for sensible size tyres