Why not? Because if they're "non-cyclists", trying to entice them to become cyclists/riders on the premise that it's "cool" is getting them into it for the wrong reasons.
Bike Forum
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That Nick Larsen Interview
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Posted 2 years ago #
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If they're non-cyclists, we shouldn't really give a $hit what they think about our sport/hobby.
Largely agree.
I must need my bumps feeling or something, as I'm increasingly agreeing with Mike a lot.
Either that or I'm "growing up"
I'm working on a considerably more mainstream brand relaunch right now, which will still be "mountain bike" but a lot more "normal" than stuff I've done before.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Why not? Because if they're "non-cyclists", trying to entice them to become cyclists/riders on the premise that it's "cool" is getting them into it for the wrong reasons.
I wrekon probably half are already in it cos they think its cool...i see them all the time....
Then there are those who get into something because they think its cool and then really get into the sport..but the initial clincher was the COOL BIT ..is that not ok Mike...there are lots of customers to be gained that way...and good marketing tempts them....
Then there are the likes of me who just love outdoor sport and bikes
Posted 2 years ago # -
try it on people who dont cycle - I include pople who only go to trail centres in this as I want to widen the argument out to include arguing about what cycling is as well as whether it is geeky or nerdy
Want to spend a grand on a bike that you cannot ride up the hills because they are too steep. You cannot ride down them because it is too scary, technical or dangerous. You will be cold , wet, muddy and injured from crashing .....not many people jump at the chance for some reason.... I dont get it either what's not to like about it ?
Posted 2 years ago # -
This is a great thread.
Upfront I have to say that I haven't read the article. However, I have never understood why the majority of posters on this forum like/love/get On-one/Ragley, Cotic and Dialled bikes, but don't like/love/get Charge. After all, they share many similarities. I wonder if it is purely based on a snap reaction to Charge's marketing and the fact they make fixies? If that is the case for some, then I find it sad. I'd hope people were no more inclined to completely disregard a brand based purely on marketing they didn't like than buy a bike based purely on marketing they did like?
If you don't like a bike after you have ridden it, then fair enough. If you don't like several bikes made by a brand then maybe you will never like that brand. Fair enough. (I feel that way about Cannondale).
As for Charge (or anyone) making "trendy fixies", who cares. Why dislike a brand for doing it? Different strokes for different folks, and the more people riding bikes the better eh?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm working on a considerably more mainstream brand relaunch right now, which will still be "mountain bike" but a lot more "normal" than stuff I've done before.
Toys R Us finally come calling then? 5" travel hardtails for 5 year olds? My Little Ragley?
Posted 2 years ago # -
brant - Premier Member
I must need my bumps feeling or something, as I'm increasingly agreeing with Mike a lot.
Either that or I'm "growing up"
I was thinking when this thread first appeared there haven't been any juicy interbrand squabbles since we kissed and made up/mellowed out/grew up (whichever is applicable).
NagsNog - Member
Then there are those who get into something because they think its cool and then really get into the sport..but the initial clincher was the COOL BIT ..is that not ok Mike...there are lots of customers to be gained that way...and good marketing tempts them....
Then there are the likes of me who just love outdoor sport and bikes
As I said earlier, "cool" is a state of mind. If a person thinks something is cool from an interest/excitement/fun perspective, that's, er, cool :wink:. But if they think it's cool purely from an image perspective, that just seems a bit fake/w@nk.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I like the Charge brand and its bikes.
Evan's stock Charge - I wonder if that has made them not in vogue with the STW massive?
Posted 2 years ago # -
coolness is a percieved thing,, lead by marketing and peer pressure.
in my opinion ,,,
it has never been so easy for everyman and his dog to buy a few frames from taiwan and call it a brand,,
where as some people out there design their bikes (and or build prototypes ) here then send the drawings over to taiwan , US italy whereever to get them made
Posted 2 years ago # -
I was a little disappointed not to read anything juicy about the 'Lazy Susan'. That bike really does look like a brave new direction!
Posted 2 years ago # -
I think the Charge Duster does fill a nice wee niche, can't think of any other tough, XC race shaped frames that can also take 2.4" tyres. Makes for one hell of a lot of fun through singletrack where you enjoy sharp angles and whippy handling, but with the grip and cushioning of big tyres.
Its maybe only a relevant niche if you also own a slightly longer travel mardtail for trail centres and bigger/steeper mountain trails, I'd now be seriously torn between my Duster and my Marin Rocky Ridge if I had to choose.
What I'm trying to say though is its perhaps a bit unfair to dismiss the Charge mtbs as cookie-cutter Taiwanese catalogue jobs, I think they've got a bit more individuality than that...
Posted 2 years ago # -
I personally would bracket Charge with One One and Cotic, my perception of all these brands would be 'straight forward with a perhaps little british eccentricity and design savvy...' where as i would put Trek, Cannondale and Specialized as 'big brand, mass produced but refined and good value' - I would happily own any of these bikes and would buy whatever meets my needs, I place value and ride quality over british made so currently ride a Cannondale and Santa Cruz. As a graphic designer I am seduced by Charge's grasp of marketing and overall design flair. Bulls--t... dont think so - it is a product that needs to be sold after all and marketing is a part of that process. I love the Cotic Soul (desirable) an One One Inbred's (stunning value), but both products also market themselves in different ways, just that Charge are much more obvious and i think that many of the big players could use a bit of Charge's design savvy to improve the look of their products!
As for niche bikes, I think One One and Cotic also fall into this category, and have you seen some of the stuff Trek and Cannondale are putting out (belt drive singlespeeds!). The important thing is that nearly every company is improving what they do... whether it's an all round hardtail, a cafe shop fixie or a race ready DH bike, there is less need to go down the custom build route than ever... all good
Posted 2 years ago # -
Just to come back to one early point:
All I've heard about charge is that their customer service is sh1t.
Erm... you couldn't be wronger. I bought a new Ti Duster frame 2.5 years ago through Wiggle. In getting the headset cups professionally inserted by an LBS it came to light that the headtube had been incorrectly reamed (cups were too slack). I approached HotWheels about the issue and before they could do anything, Nick personally intervened. Because I was bike-less he lent me a spare bike so I could still go for a planned weekender in mid-Wales. He also personally brought me back a replacement frame from HotWheels, and fitted the headset. And BB.
My 2p.
Posted 2 years ago # -
We are a funny lot aren't we? Forums like this can create all sorts of viral opinions that can freely market or totally erode a product. Sometimes that viral marketing is the vital thing when something is new and fresh but can easily turn bad for a number of reasons.. Colour options, perceived service, value, perceived audience, wrong rad/sick^gnarl ratio...
Given a choice of X, Y or Z, penty of folk who've just tried Z will say; "Yep, Z is amazing, buy Z!" and plenty others will go; "Z failed [maybe for a valid reason nothing to do with the performance, manufacture or function of Z] so Z is shit. Don't buy Z!" These people have some validity at least..
Some will merrily pipe up that "I bought a Z when I should have bought an X. I bought an X in the end. I liked it. Therefore Z is shit." I get the horrible feeling that these people are the most vociferous of them all.Posted 2 years ago # -
Although I probably agree with the "concentrate on bikes for people who love bikes" outlook I did enjoy the interview a great deal - it was the first industry interview for a long time that didn't read like all the other industry interviews. As I read it NL was trying to think about mountain bikes in a different way at a time when thinking about bikes differently has pretty much come to mean a degree difference here or there. Which is refreshing even if I don't agree with all of it.
Mind, so far, I have enjoyed the Jenn Hopkins and Chipps articles more.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'd wager the STW hate for Charge is down to all those video ads that were running a while back - a lot of moaning about those I remember.
"Urgh, look at all those young, good looking, aspirational and far more talented cyclists than me having far too much fun on those rather good looking bikes"
Or something like that...
Posted 2 years ago # -
(And big up the Radstock massif!)
Posted 2 years ago # -
Posted 2 years ago #
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Cycling is only cool to (some) cyclists. To everyone else we're weird. The more i cycle, the more i think that. We go out in the rain, get muddy and risk our lives dodging them in their cars. You either get it or you dont and it usually takes something major to change your view. Personally i know that to the wider world im a bit weird and i like it that way. To me theyre all missing something.
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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