[Closed] That Nick Larsen Interview

please give more info on what he said for the skinflints among us

ta

I'm still not entirely sure of what to make of it. But it did seem a bit odd.

Not sure what he expects....his fixie type bikes have created more interest in the brand of late than any of the mountain bikes in the range.

Plus didn't he just sell Charge (via Hotwheels) to the Dorel group??

Maybe its becuase I know who brant is. WTF is Nick Larsen, does he make bikes for radge muppets to push between street cafe's when they're not RLJ'ing?

All I've heard about charge is that their customer service is sh1t.

What did I say to make you think I was jealous of Cotic and On-one? I do admire what they do, but I think jealously is a bit strong. I think the forum comment related to one particular thread some time ago that I got involved with about Charge and "Marketing Bullshit". I should never have.

Nick

[i]Do kids really think mountain bikes are uncool[/i]

bmx - yup, cool as...
fixies - yup, in a hoxton kinda way
mongrel bikes - always cool
but mtb - aaah c'mon, there's absolutely nothing 'cool' about mtb's

Well... perhaps you were misquoted Nick, but... "...the geek side of it needs toning down. It’s odd that people admire Cy from Cotic..."

does he make bikes for radge muppets to push between street cafe's when they're not RLJ'ing?

This made me laugh. Good description.

Interview all about Charge bikes being for non-bike geeks, then finds it odd that bike geeks don't fawn over the brand?

Brant, well all I can say in my defense is that I do personally admire what Cy from Cotic has achieved, what he designs and produces, and I genuinely am sorry that I used his name and brand to illustrate my point that, "the geek side of it needs toning down." That was wrong, I regret doing that and I apologise.

Surely to design great bikes you need to be a 'geek'??

true! c'mon folks, do any of us who are into alfine hub ratios, head angles or fork damping NOT think of ourselves as a bit geeky? 😉 in a positive way n'all..

but mtb - aaah c'mon, there's absolutely nothing 'cool' about mtb's

I am a geek, I think... well I hope, I am after all posting on this forum. The point was that to make mountain biking attractive to non-cyclists (rather than fixies) it needs to be less geeky.

[i]Surely to design great bikes you need to be a 'geek'[/i]

but you certainly don't need to be a geek to enjoy riding one 😉

it's the obsessive keyboard kit-fwappery that defines the 'geeks', and that's what makes mtb 'uncool' - middle aged, middle class, middle england blokes posting about esoteric niche bikes, £500 coffee pots and mortgage woes whilst correcting each others punctuation & spelling and all the time pretending they're part of some sort of 'scene' or 'online-community'.........

...rad

Less geeky?!

I mountain bike to escape 'geekiness' 😥

you've failed.

The whole fixie thing is a geek culture/fashion gone mainstream, isn't it? It may by ironic, but that's how I see it.

Hey nick

I haven't read the interview yet - but I think I get what you mean and I reckon it's down to semantics.

If you exchange 'geek' for 'nerd' - what you're saying totally makes sense. There are few (if any) truly aspirational brands in MTBing. By that I mean brands that even if you are a non-cyclist and don't get the geeky stuff (which actually draws a lot of us to the sport) then you'd want to be a part of it. In the same way people who have never stepped on a skateboard would happily wear a skate brands t-shirt to get some of the associated cool that it brings.

Brands in cycling don't seem to be particularly important for the real enthusiasts - who genuinely care about function over form. Some of the best bikes i've ever ridden have logos that i'd never want anywhere near my t-shirt.

anyhoo just my 2 cents...

A.

t's the obsessive keyboard kit-fwappery that defines the 'geeks', and that's what makes mtb 'uncool' - middle aged, middle class, middle england blokes posting about esoteric niche bikes, £500 coffee pots and mortgage woes whilst correcting each others punctuation & spelling and all the time pretending they're part of some sort of 'scene' or 'online-community'.........

Hilldodger wins..... 😀

proven by the fact people are now arguing over what Geek means..... 🙂

That charge marketing bullshit thread... that was me that was. dont forget Howies too.

I think that all the UK bike designers should meet up somewhere central and have a big geek-scrap. The last one standing then can safely say that he (I don't know of any shes) makes the best bikes. Job done and all the handbags can be put down.

MTBing and cycling in general is a geeky sport, like it or not - something to do with the combination of individual (rather than team) effort and techincal equipment that geeky types love. Occassionally some people/groups transcend the geekyness if only temporarily (fixie, DH, FR) but that's rarely a long term thing.

whilst correcting each others punctuation & spelling

[i]Surely, "others" should be graced with an apostrophe.....".[/i]

Grammar matters too. I'm just saying....

If you exchange 'geek' for 'nerd' - what you're saying totally makes sense.

FFS.

To me this came across as you been jealous “He makes steel hardtails and titanium hardtails and that’s it” and “what Brant does is great and what Charge does is ‘marketing bullshit’ and compare it to Howies”

Re-reading, perhaps jealous is a bit strong, but you totally went off on one with that last reply!

BTW I thought the interview was great and I really enjoyed reading it.

Many aspects and disciplines of cycling are geeky / nerdy. Its part of being in the tribe. It is also what deters (sometimes offends) others from getting into cycling. Cycling is primarily driven by the sport / enthusiast base.

In my view this is one of the biggest barriers to more people cycling.

In my view this is one of the biggest barriers to more people cycling.

I think it's the rain, myself.

I think there's two issues here.

Like photography, I find that mountain biking feeds both the tech part of my brain and the soulful bit too. When I'm buying a bike I'm looking at machined bits, geometry, disc brake mounts, and then thinking 'that's rather cool.' As a purchaser you buy into that image, be it Charge, Cotic, Bontrager or Yeti. You can't help but think "I'm buying a Lapierre, I'm being different!"

I can't say that I've ever seen a Charge that excites my tech brain like a Ragley or proper Klein does. They're good, don't get me wrong, but they lack that shock and awe. I then see a brown leather saddle, or the cohesive design across all their parts, and it becomes desirable. I like the image, I just can't get enthused about the design.

The fact that Charge makes hipster bikes, or parts in varied colorways, makes no more difference to me than Specialized making the Langster when I'm considering a Pitch.

What Nick/Charge do *very* well is creating bicycles and parts which fit an overall image and sell well to the public. Charge as a brand, and as a range, could sit very easily in big department stores where others couldn't. If that means that 'geeks' don't see them as a proper bike brand, is that a bad thing? How many of us have had friends and colleagues say "I'm thinking of buying a bike, what would you recommend?"

For me, though, bikes for riding. Then image. In that order.

[i]In my view this is one of the biggest barriers to more people cycling.[/i]

Surely the biggest barrier is laziness?

I don't own a Cotic or a Charge bike, but for me the Cotics look cool and look like you could ride them for hours a day. The Charge bikes do neither. What is with that plain gauge tubing? That makes me a geek, I guess.

I do have a Charge Spoon saddle mind you. Very happy with that.

Cool, geek and nerd are all states of mind.

Why would anyone want to make mountain biking attractive to non-cyclists anyway? If they're non-cyclists, we shouldn't really give a $hit what they think about our sport/hobby.

Why would anyone want to make mountain biking attractive to non-cyclists anyway? If they're non-cyclists, we shouldn't really give a $hit what they think about our sport/hobby.

Why not?

They don't get it and should all be thrown in the sea.

Why not? Because if they're "non-cyclists", trying to entice them to become cyclists/riders on the premise that it's "cool" is getting them into it for the wrong reasons.

If they're non-cyclists, we shouldn't really give a $hit what they think about our sport/hobby.

Largely agree.

I must need my bumps feeling or something, as I'm increasingly agreeing with Mike a lot.

Either that or I'm "growing up" 🙁

I'm working on a considerably more mainstream brand relaunch right now, which will still be "mountain bike" but a lot more "normal" than stuff I've done before.

Why not? Because if they're "non-cyclists", trying to entice them to become cyclists/riders on the premise that it's "cool" is getting them into it for the wrong reasons.

I wrekon probably half are already in it cos they think its cool...i see them all the time....

Then there are those who get into something because they think its cool and then really get into the sport..but the initial clincher was the COOL BIT ..is that not ok Mike...there are lots of customers to be gained that way...and good marketing tempts them....

Then there are the likes of me who just love outdoor sport and bikes

try it on people who dont cycle - I include pople who only go to trail centres in this as I want to widen the argument out to include arguing about what cycling is as well as whether it is geeky or nerdy 😉 🙄

Want to spend a grand on a bike that you cannot ride up the hills because they are too steep. You cannot ride down them because it is too scary, technical or dangerous. You will be cold , wet, muddy and injured from crashing .....not many people jump at the chance for some reason.... I dont get it either what's not to like about it ?

This is a great thread.

Upfront I have to say that I haven't read the article. However, I have never understood why the majority of posters on this forum like/love/get On-one/Ragley, Cotic and Dialled bikes, but don't like/love/get Charge. After all, they share many similarities. I wonder if it is purely based on a snap reaction to Charge's marketing and the fact they make fixies? If that is the case for some, then I find it sad. I'd hope people were no more inclined to completely disregard a brand based purely on marketing they didn't like than buy a bike based purely on marketing they did like?

If you don't like a bike after you have ridden it, then fair enough. If you don't like several bikes made by a brand then maybe you will never like that brand. Fair enough. (I feel that way about Cannondale).

As for Charge (or anyone) making "trendy fixies", who cares. Why dislike a brand for doing it? Different strokes for different folks, and the more people riding bikes the better eh?

I'm working on a considerably more mainstream brand relaunch right now, which will still be "mountain bike" but a lot more "normal" than stuff I've done before.

Toys R Us finally come calling then? 5" travel hardtails for 5 year olds? My Little Ragley?

brant - Premier Member

I must need my bumps feeling or something, as I'm increasingly agreeing with Mike a lot.

Either that or I'm "growing up"

I was thinking when this thread first appeared there haven't been any juicy interbrand squabbles since we kissed and made up/mellowed out/grew up (whichever is applicable).

NagsNog - Member

Then there are those who get into something because they think its cool and then really get into the sport..but the initial clincher was the COOL BIT ..is that not ok Mike...there are lots of customers to be gained that way...and good marketing tempts them....

Then there are the likes of me who just love outdoor sport and bikes

As I said earlier, "cool" is a state of mind. If a person thinks something is cool from an interest/excitement/fun perspective, that's, er, cool :wink:. But if they think it's cool purely from an image perspective, that just seems a bit fake/w@nk.

I like the Charge brand and its bikes.

Evan's stock Charge - I wonder if that has made them not in vogue with the STW massive?

coolness is a percieved thing,, lead by marketing and peer pressure.

in my opinion ,,,

it has never been so easy for everyman and his dog to buy a few frames from taiwan and call it a brand,,

where as some people out there design their bikes (and or build prototypes ) here then send the drawings over to taiwan , US italy whereever to get them made

I was a little disappointed not to read anything juicy about the 'Lazy Susan'. That bike really does look like a brave new direction!