Quality quote from the father of one of the victims
[quote]
Patrick’s father, Terry, said his son punched the bear in the face to try to
escape. “The bear got into the tent where Patrick was with two friends and
he just grabbed hold of the other boy and killed him,” he said. “I don’t
really know why he chose the boy — perhaps he was closest.
“If he looked at Patrick he was the chubbiest one, he probably had more meat
on him, bless him.[quote]
Elfinsafety -
Where's the snobbery?
Too close for you to see it.
To those who suggested that these are holidays packaged as expeditions - you are way off the mark. When I went to Iceland in 2000 I was not only a group leader, I was also "chief scientist". My own group spent several weeks camped in a lava field dessert and produced a topographic map of icesheet retreat markers and outflow channels. The mapping was undertaken using GPS and traditional stadia optical theodolites. It wasn't extending the boundaries of science, but it was extending the boundaries of scientific fieldwork for the teenagers in my team. At least 2 were inspired to get themselves into college doing geology.
Other groups were set up on the icecap studying meteorology and ice melt rates, another group were stream gauging ice sheet meltwater flows and a fourth were also making ice sheet edge maps under the tutelage of a leader from the Ordnance Survey.
Too close for you to see it.
Really Al? Really?
No snobbery at all. People have simply imagined such things, as is usually the case on here.
Sigh.
"So kill them all then??" er........not actually what I was suggesting at all, in anyway whatsoever.
I don't know about snobbery. Certainly a lot of poorly informed / uninformed comments.
I'm probably one of the "chippiest" posters on here. Take it or leave it as far as my comments are concerned. BSES inspired me to do a geology degree, based on the scientific fieldwork aspect, and that is still part of my career today. I came to BSES from a comp, as had the previous people who I knew and inspired me to apply. I went back as a leader because I wanted to pass on some of the professional field science skills I had subsequently acquired during my career.
As for the holiday bit? Well I never thought carrying 80-100 pound packs for several days, including all your food, fuel, camping, survival and science kit as a holiday. More like a military operation perhaps?
I can see the temptation of looking at this as some gap year jaunt for rich kids. The gap year Market is one that BSES has to compete in, but the reality is (was?) that they precede that Market / fashion by about 50-60 years, and offer something quite different
it's only a bear guys, it was killing folk and got shot.
is it liberal pussy day on STW today?
Yes Fred, really.
Really, Al? Really?
Care to explain why then?
rkk01 - Member
I don't know about snobbery. Certainly a lot of poorly informed / uninformed comments.I'm probably one of the "chippiest" posters on here. Take it or leave it as far as my comments are concerned. BSES inspired me to do a geology degree, based on the scientific fieldwork aspect, and that is still part of my career today. I came to BSES from a comp, as had the previous people who I knew and inspired me to apply. I went back as a leader because I wanted to pass on some of the professional field science skills I had subsequently acquired during my career.
As for the holiday bit? Well I never thought carrying 80-100 pound packs for several days, including all your food, fuel, camping, survival and science kit as a holiday. More like a military operation perhaps?
I can see the temptation of looking at this as some gap year jaunt for rich kids. The gap year Market is one that BSES has to compete in, but the reality is (was?) that they precede that Market / fashion by about 50-60 years, and offer something quite different
please stop responding to trolls with facts and first hand experiences. Some people just see what fits their view of the world. Chances of changing their mind on an internet forum = 0
Fred you assume those kids would not cope because they come from a different and more posh background.
SImples
Do I? Where did I say anything like that, Al? Where?
You've just added 2 and 2 together and made 39.
Find where I made any reference at all to anyone's background. Go on. Off you go. And don't come back until you've found the evidence to back your statement up with.
Oh go on then what point (if any) were you trying to make?
Well tbh Al I was merely trying to make a humorous reference to events in Tottenham (High St rather than a council estate now I realise), but I don't really think it was in very good taste actually. 
IE, you don't need to go all the way to Svalbard to find excitement and danger oh I can't be bothered any more.
whats the difference between a polar bear and prince william?
a polar bear doesnt have to marry kate middleton if it wants to eat some posh ****
i g m c
(and prossibly a ban)
kimbers, probably better to substitute Mike Tyndall for Prince Willy there.
whats the difference between a polar bear and prince william?
A polar bear is quite happy to live in the Frozen North, whereas Prince William prefers warmer climes.
That's not the answer, is it....?
Well, I partially trained some of these kids and all of the others on the BSES / Wild fox Norway trip, so a topic close to home.
I paddled the length of Loch Tay with them after they had camped wild for 2 nights, walked over big Scottish hills with no paths, spent a day being pushed to do all sorts of random team challenges and scary high ropes stuff. I saw a bunch of young people who were way beyond what they though they were capable of physically and mentally. BSES trips are not holidays. They are true wilderness journeys with all the physical and emotional challenges that brings.
Half of the particpants were from really rough places in London, Manchester and Birmingham. For them it was a massive challenge not to be nicking my kit or the minibus at the start of the event. By the end they were telling my staff off for leaving kit around and returning it to the owner.
Some of you need to re-think risk (a main reason I bike/paddle/climb etc) and judging people before you know full facts.
My thoughts are with the families of the people involved.
The bear attack is an absolute tragedy for the individuals involved, but it would be an even bigger tragedy if organisations like BSES no can no longer take young adults to where the wild places are.....
^this.
Tell that to the parents of the dead lad.
It's exciting and character building and all that, but it's not essential, is it? I mean, there are other places which are just as wild but don't have polar bears running about.
oh I can't be bothered any more.
It's exciting and character building and all that, but it's not essential, is it? I mean, there are other places which are just as wild but don't have polar bears running about.
Jees guys, A young adult has lost his life and a family have lost their son. most frigteningly of all is that his peers witnessed all this happen. they were then themselves injured in a freak accident involving a WILD animal.
Give it a rest and have a bit of sympathy for those who loved him.
My initial thought on hearing of this incident was thinking that it sounded like a Gap year gone wrong. However I then wandered off into the internet and discovered a bit more about BSES and how it's not all about providing the rich with a way of off-loading their teenagers for a bit of the summer holidays.
I think it would be a shame if the opportunities this charity provide were to closed down. There may well need to be some more investigation into where it is appropriate for them to go and the support provided but it should carry on.
1 good thing that may happen from the death of this explorer is that the BSES may become more wideknown and possibily increase the awareness of this organistion beyond it's current scope. I would have loved to have known about such a thing many years ago when I was younger.
Hopefully the news coverage will open up the charity to more support and more chances for people from all over to apply.
Better not get in a car tomorrow
Quite easy, as I don't own a car.
You stay wrapped up in a place with apparent risk not real risk - some random illness will get you before living life does.
Yawn. I've bin to Norway several times, and had instruction in handling firearms there. Bin out on my own in areas where bears and wolves are known to mooch about in. How about that then, eh?
All I'm saying is, coon't areas where polar bears live be avoided, y'know, to help avoid tragedies like this, and also the need to have to kill an endangered species if it does attack humans? I mean, you're in his back yard, not your own.
Half of the particpants were from really rough places in London, Manchester and Birmingham. For them it was a massive challenge not to be nicking my kit or the minibus at the start of the event. By the end they were telling my staff off for leaving kit around and returning it to the owner.
Fairy nuff, I stand corrected. I just saw the name Horatio and my inverse snob-knee started jerking wildly.
And the stuff about risk - as Elfin said, it's not that people shouldn't go there because they should be 'wrapped up in cotton wool', it's more about not messing up the habitat of (and killing) endangered species due to non-essential trips.
If they want a bit of a thrill, something a bit dangerous and risky they can bore their friends with over dinner for years to come, why not take a party of them into say, I dunno, a council estate in Tottenham?
I mean, there are other places which are just as wild but don't have polar bears running about.
Much of the world has dangerous animals in the wild though. I'm in Canada at the moment (Banff today, moving onto Jasper tomorrow) and so far this week we've had several trails closed near the hotel 'cause of bear activity plus a little girl was attacked by a cougar (which was then hunted and killed) at one of the places we were at (Kananaskis).
When I went to the Yukon with BSES we had a number of brushes with grizzlies. A young bear had to be trapped in base camp as it was raiding food supplies, a few of my team had to resort to tree climbing when a mother an 2 cubs turned up, and one night we were all bricking it as a bear(s) was pushing our tent around. Next morning there were bear prints all over camp. Fortunately we had done as we had been trained and stashed all our food up a high tree - otherwise the bear would have been in the tent, not outside of it!!
Point is, we were all jealous of the previous expedition that had gone to Svalbard and Greenland, as they were armed. Wandering around in grizzly country did not warrant carrying firearms - regarded as a greater risk to us. Wandering around in polar bear country did warrant firearms, because the polar bears will actively hunt humans.
As Epic Steve says, plenty of places were there are dangerous wild animals- we really are quite sheltered in the UK. BSES are very experienced in Svalbard and Greenland expeditions ( I cite these countries because of the polar bears). From what I understand having spoon to expeditioners, coming across these creatures is very common on these expeds. This one appears unusual in that the normal procedures to scare the bear off don't appear to have worked. Starving bear perhaps? That possibly indicates that there are too many polar bears - ie more than the environment can sustain....
Forgot to add...
...good to see a few more posters weighing in to add ther (positive) thoughts onBSES and expeditions in general!
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