Martinxyz "I know someone with a dl 650 and its about 60bhp"

The Vstrom does use the same motor as the SV but it's detuned, different cams and I think possibly also slightly different cylinder heads, 2003 onwards SV makes 69bhp at the rear wheel as standard compared to the DL's 60. But also, the Vstrom weighs a claimed 195 kilos dry compared to the SV's claimed 167kg dry, which is a huge difference. (dry weight is always a complete lie of course, but the 2 lies can be compared 😉 ) So the performance is very different, the power to weight ratio is somehting like 3.4:1 on the DL compared to 2.4:1 on the SV. That's about as different as the ptw difference between an SV and a GSXR600.

Also, the DL has a lot more suspension travel, and the suspension is dealing with more weight, so it wallows a bit. All in all they're very different bikes. I like the DL but it's not the same sort of thing at all as an SV, it's really just transport IMO. It does it well mind, very comfy and a bit more efficient.

With the engine braking, you soon get used to it and start to use it to your advantage, but it does feel weird and even unpleasant at first, if you're not used to it. You do have to be a little more accurate with the rev matching but it's not hard. The funny thing is, once you're used to engine braking, riding a bike with much less of it feels just as dangerous and weird.

martinxyz – Member

I know someone with a dl 650 and its about 60bhp.i have something with 140bhp and when we swap bikes you notice that you have to be using all the gears and using them well just to keep up even on slow stuff.I struggled with it. he just cruised off on my bike in one ride and effortlessly continued the ride as i huffed and puffed thru most of the gears

I suspect this is simply because you have got the 900 as your first big bike and therefore not actually learned to ride a bike properly.

I was taught a big lesson about this a few years ago – a bike club open run with around 120 bikes on it. At the front of the line was a chap on a 10 yr old gsx 11 chopper – working hard but keeping ahead of a chap on an R!. next fastest was a chap on a Yamaha 550 single, then a chap on a 20 yr old GSX1100 then me on my BMW R1100RS. A long line of powerrangers on sports bike couldn't keep up. Eventually I had to cry enough and drop the speed – I was going to end up in a hedge trying to keep up with a bike with less than 1/2 the power.

I have been riding for 35 yrs at this point – and I am no slouch but there is no way I could get past the 550 yam or the 20 yr old GSXR 11.
Another occasion – out with some pals ( Firestorm 1000, Bandit 12, ZZR1100 and me). Met up with and overtook a bunch of lads on sports bikes – one put his bike thru a fence trying to keep up – and we were only out for a fst cruise.

Don't be deluded. a fast bike does not make you a fast rider. Skills make you a fast rider. A good rider on a 40 bhp bike will always leave an average rider on a 100bhp bike behind.

Don't be deluded. a fast bike does not make you a fast rider. Skills make you a fast rider. A good rider on a 40 bhp bike will always leave an average rider on a 100bhp bike behind.

You're just so wrong, Mr TJ!

In the world of motorbiking in the UK, he who has the most powerful, most race-bred, most hardcore machine wins. The riding is, at the very most, secondary as a huge proportion of bikes are hardly used, and those that are a rarely used as a means of getting from A to B.

Not sure why you'd think this is the case

I only know someone with a first generation… That's why 😉

suspect this is simply because you have got the 900 as your first big bike and therefore not actually learned to ride a bike properly.

I was taught a big lesson about this a few years ago – a bike club open run with around 120 bikes on it. At the front of the line was a chap on a 10 yr old gsx 11 chopper – working hard but keeping ahead of a chap on an R!. next fastest was a chap on a Yamaha 550 single

Agree with the first part. But I quite can't figure out what yam 550 you are referring about? Rebored sr500?

In the world of motorbiking in the UK, he who has the most powerful, most race-bred, most hardcore machine wins. The riding is, at the very most, secondary as a huge proportion of bikes are hardly used, and those that are a rarely used as a means of getting from A to B

Same as MTB then!

Hmmm SV1000 looks nice 🙂
Managed to get away from new/big is best with mtb, hope not to go there re motorbiking!

Same as MTB then!

No No No… Otherwise you'll see plenty of douglas firefly 350 around 😉

I very nearly bought one, an unfaired one (the faired version put my hands a bit low and forward for my taste). Meant to be pretty solid reliable things, and the sheer number of them means parts supply is pretty easy. But then the right Ducati Monster came up at the right price so I bought that instead. Love it to bits.

Juan – it was a 550 single roadbike in a full fairing – not built for very long and probably 15 yrs old. FZR?

Used the xt 55o engine

edit – can't find it on t'internet. Deffo a single cylinder road bike in a full fairing Maybe srz 660 but that does not look right – the incident was 6 yrs ago

OK the op question has become a 'is big hp better/worse"thing
I've ridden bikes for 35ys +& have a dl650 v-srtom at the moment
for me this is the best all round bike I've owned
shares the same bullet proof engine as the sv (detuned to 66hp)
does nothing fantastic but everything very good
this bike is grin's on a stick

If your over 80+kg(I'm not) the suspension may be a bit soft,but overall this bike is a blast to ride!!

Another occasion – out with some pals ( Firestorm 1000, Bandit 12, ZZR1100 and me). Met up with and overtook a bunch of lads on sports bikes – one put his bike thru a fence trying to keep up – and we were only out for a fst cruise

Mrs PP got stuck behind some chaps on sports bikes last year, on a local biking road. She eventually overtook them all because they were annoying her. She was driving our Vectra at the time….. 😯

She was driving our Vectra at the time…..

MWah ah ah ah ah

Thanks for all that info,Northwind.I did start getting used to the engine braking after 20 mins or so.bit of a shock to begin with.
I found the weight here: http://www.diseno-art.com/encyclopedia/vehicles/road/bikes/Suzuki_DL650_V-Strom.html I got the 5 kilos or so heavier than my own bike from that link.
The suspension did feel wallowy but i forgot to add that he said the bike had done something like 15k-ish. they will be due a service and cant really be put down as being bad. Im also probably a bit heavy for them as standard :O) I guessed both bikes would be similar so hopefully one day ill get a shot of the sv650 that a customer has recently bought just to see how they compare.

Anyhows.. yesterday afternoon while you were mocking me for not riding my bike properly, Jeremy.. i was actually out riding it! not sitting at a desk talking about riding :OP 215 miles since my last post. That road from Fort William to Mallaig is smooth and so nice to ride on. anyone riding up the FW area, you need to detour off to Mallaig as its really worth it.

Jeremy, the way i describe the way i ride probably makes it sound like i ride around in 6th all day long.when i got the bike i mentioned being happy touring over the west and leaving it in 6th on those big fast open roads when im out for hours on end. fuel economy is something that has to be taken into consideration as on a sunday over the west,fuel stops can go tits up quite easily.

The bike redlines at 12k. I would estimate if i went out for a brisk ride (lets say Inverness to Fort William to give you an idea of the kind of road im thinking of) i would be in 2nd and 3rd from around 3k up to 9k at a push on certain bits of the road then for 4th gear i would guess between 5k to 8k and after that i would say 5th and 6th would be fine for cruising along on the open roads with long endless straights.

I have a dyno printout on my lap right now. The peak power after the service was 133bhp at just under 11k.Ive been there once or twice but its not what i enjoy doing to be honest. Now the figure im looking at is the figure that matches the revs ive just been talking about – 9k is showing bang on 120bhp, 8k is showing 105bhp,7k is showing 88bhp, 6k is showing 70bhp.

At this point you might be gagging to jump up and type "yeah,and look what bhp you are using at 6k"
correct. but lets turn it around and see what bhp a 60bhp bike is using at 6k on its way up to the magical max bhp it supposedly has. 33bhp at 50%? 38?. See what i`m getting at? I use the bike around the limits i talked about and the printout shows whats been used throughout the revs.

So.. if i am half way through MY rev range,i might be using around 60-70bhp. while on a bike with 60 bhp you might be using 30bhp at the half way point to your peak power point in the revs. Your argument might be "yes, but we will be reaching that point more often and keeping the revs up there" but in reality, even once reached.. you are still only strangling the 60bhp max out of the damn thing once you DO get there (hoping you didn't lose it all by thwapping the rev limiter on the way through each gear ;O)

going back to the o.p. what first springs to mind between the two bikes is trying to drive a citroen 2cv over the west coast of scotland compared to a 2 litre diesel.you would rather a 6 hour trip to be a bit more relaxing and enjoy the power and torque of the diesel. come on,who owns a diesel on here and frequently gets lazy with gear changes? all of us. do bike raggers occasionally hit their diesel cars off the limiter in each gear to get the most out of it?
Yesterday i was really enjoying briskly riding in 2nd,3rd,4th and into 5th.. (and cruising along in 6th too, as thats whats its for i believe ;O)) along the twisty stuff over there. controlling the speed without brakes and flowing along at the speed limit is nice. shoot me! ragging it out of corners is a good feeling but i cant afford to do it all the time. the rear BT021 is kind of feathered on the edges from a few silly moments i had one night and its too expensive to be doing 300+ miles a week driving like that.Its not clever and its definitely not relaxing.

lol, just had a thought.. martinxyz – riding along for 6 hours in one gear – never riding the bike properly but really enjoying it – getting out on the bike none the less.

tandemjeremy – sat on ass in house posting on STW over a period of 9 hours yesterday afternoon and into the evening,putting me down yet again by telling me that i havent learnt to ride a bike properly without even seeing me ride! aye, spot on.

another thing,you mentioned being in front of a group of 100+ riders and not having a hope in hell of passing a certain bike.with 115 riders behind you,what kind of a risk is that? what level,and how far out of the comfort zone were you riding at with all those riders behind? was it coincedence that you were at the front of the group before the ride set off? did you see yourself as one of the better riders? also kinda lureing one rider along..only for him to crash! You might view my riding style as wrong.. and i could view your group riding as dangerous.

but i wont.because i dont know you or know how you ride in reality.

You told us after noticing the danger behind you that the guy following fell off.To be honest, i wouldnt put his riding ability completely at fault. the whole group thing sucked him in.

The diffrence between you and me when it comes to bikes is that i will never ride in a group and get caught up in those situations like you have.I ride for myself,by myself. If someone comes up behind me on a bike i wave with my left hand and watch them pass. i dont race them or up the pace.To be honest i still feel bad that you have said twice since i got the bike a year ago that i am not riding it properly. Im not the first person you have peeved on on STW and yep, i certainly wont be the last!

She was driving our Vectra at the time….

And I can vouch that Vectra is F'ing slow 🙂

Martin – sorry I peed you off.

Perhaps your descriptions are at fault but what you say on both the original post and on this one and my own experience leads me to believe that you are not riding the bike properly.

Ask any experienced biker and they will tell you it is very hard to learn to ride a bike properly if your first bike is a 100bhp plus one. You don't learn how to use the revs and engine braking properly hence you had difficulty keeping up with your friend when you were on the 650.

as i huffed and puffed thru most of the gears (around the speed limit over the slow twisty roads around Gairloch

At those speeds on those roads the SV ridden properly will be as quick – hence my anecdote about the single cylinder bike that I could not get past.

I am not that fast a rider – but I am competent and safe and make adequate progress.

After tha last debate I discussed it with some biking pals all of who agreed with me.

It is not impossible to learn to ride on a 130 bhp bike – but it is far harder than a 50 bhp bike.

,and how far out of the comfort zone were you riding at with all those riders behind?

Not at all – I did start to get out of my comfort zone so I backed off

Still – what do I know? 30 + years of riding and many hundreds of thousands of miles summer and winter – and no serious crashes since I was 16. Lets put it this way – I know my limitations and I know that despite my experience I would find it hard to ride a 130 bhp bike properly. 90 bhp does me fine

Infact I have sold my 90 bhp bike and don't even have one now – 40 bhp will be fine for me in future – I am going back to the classic BSA I own as I was riding too fast for the health of my license on the BMW

I have been observed and assesseed by an advanced riding trainer who was happy with my skills

On the group ride I started off at the back and over 60 miles worked my way to near the front – not racing just cruising. The chap that crashed was a different occasion – he tried to race me while I was on a fast cruise and crashed – i don't race on the road.

Again I apologise for upsetting you – it was not my intent to mock. In the old thread I was trying to help you to stay safe and on this one what you posted screamed at me " learn to ride properly"

So please accept my apologies. I was not mocking or putting you down.

juan – Member

"I suspect this is simply because you have got the 900 as your first big bike and therefore not actually learned to ride a bike properly……………….next fastest was a chap on a Yamaha 550 single"

Agree with the first part. But I quite can't figure out what yam 550 you are referring about? Rebored sr500?

Well, I just bought an SV650s today.

x reg (91?) 22k miles, £900 !

That will get me to work for the next few months!

Thanks Jeremy.

I had a cbr 125 to begin with and of course,that got used throughout the rev range! not a good example though.they really are dead but nice and light.cornered not that bad at all.I enjoyed using it leading up to the test for a few months.at night on the Loch ness road when it was quiet it was good to get a feel of cornering and looking back i probably learnt more on it than i was aware of.Infact,when i look back i remember freezing up on a few corners and struggling to get around a few so good job it wasnt the 900 at the time. In the time ive had the big bike i havent crossed lanes by mistake or gone off into the ditch but feel its a bit big reach-wise to help me progress quicker.Its known over the years to be a bit sluggish in corners and thats something ive got used to.I think this might be partly to do with how stable the bike is as well.

Like i said before,if you venture up to Aviemore,take helmet etc and pop by as yer welcome to a shot of it to see what you make of it..

Just dont piss in the oil out of town for spite ;O)

No worries martin – nuance gets lost in forum posts sometimes and you read something I did not intend.

Enjoy your bike – after all thats what its all about in the end.

Martin wrote, "I had a cbr 125 to begin with and of course,that got used throughout the rev range! "

When I had my 125 it didn't really get used all through the revs, I just put it at the redline and left it there all the way home It barely moved otherwise…

You're spot on with some of the comments about the difference in the bikes tho… People say "Twins make more torque" but it's just not true, a litre inline 4 has a huge usable rev range. I had a 2007 R1 for a week a while back and though I think I hit full power maybe twice in that time, it's never a waste, it just pulls and pulls. Only thing I didn't like was the high gearing. As long as you've got self control, a motor like that is lovely for all sorts of riding. And I have to say, to ride it at a moderate, sensible road pace on a typical scottish A-road is as easy as pie. But riding it quick on the duke's pass and bealach na ba, now that ain't so easy! Quite hard to use that muscle effectively, it's exactly like using a sledgehammer to tap in a nail. Sometimes, you want a little hammer 😉

Personally, I just like little engines, I just find it more involving. The SV'll still cruise at 100mph for the entire length of the M6 in top without noticing (ahem, according to a mate of mine, officer) so it's not lacking but yep, it's harder work on fast curvy roads, you need to stir the box a bit and carry a bit more corner speed if you want to make fast progress.

But all this is a bit relative, because a new rider's not going to get close to the capacity of any of these bikes. Even at my best, I didn't get the best out of mine, these days I'm never within sight of its limits. The only real criticism I have of the SV as a learner bike is that it doesn't always inspire confidence because of the mis-specced forks, which isn't too helpful for a noob.

Nice buy Jujuuk! Nice price… X reg is 2000/2001 I think, mine is W and 2000. Should do you well! Now, before it gets too wet, get a tube of Maplin's part number RE90X and get that front plug sealed or it'll turn into an SV325 😉 Oh and maybe a tin of ACF50 or Scottoiler FS365 if you plan on running it through winter, that'll help keep it in tidy nick. Other'n that… Nothing to worry about on that model really. If you find it carb ices, which it probably will in cold fog, get some Silkolene Pro FST, or alternatively run it on BP super unleaded, it's got some additive which reduces icing. Won't happen once winter's really here but in autumn you get cold damp days.

Oh, there's a thing. If you intend to crash it- I know most people do, it's a highpoint of owning a motorbike- you might also want some of these:

http://www.motosliders.com/MS-1.html

$65, but even if you drop it in a car park at 1mph or it gets knocked over it can do a lot more damage than that. These things are brilliant, I chucked mine along the back straight at Knockhill at 70mph, all I had to do was clean the gravel out of the fairing and then I rode it home, no damage worth mentioning. Saves money but also means you're less likely to be stranded in the middle of nowhere with no brake lever.