Apologies firstly – I have googled and now have info overload but would like some real world opinions.

My Tazer is in having its waggy tail sorted so I’m bored and looking at stuff . . . always a bad sign 😉 . I love it to bits but I’m still tempted by more travel. I’ve owned several four bar (or is it faux bar?) Konas and a single pivot Heckler but never kept any of them long enough to see bearing issues and to be fair didn’t ride them hard enough either but now I’m starting to prefer going down 😉 albeit in a rather mincing stylee.

The single-pivot brake jack thing? Can’t say I ever really noticed it on the Heckler but I didn’t take it down anything more difficult than the old Pedalhounds track at Cwmcarn. Would love to try another now I’m a little bit more confident.

Felt pretty comfortable on my old Kona Coiler on the Cwmcarn d/h track – 6″ travel is probably enough for anything I’d want to tackle. I did feel though that it was a little long (sort of ‘here I am, my arse is coming later’) in the twisty stuff and I remember describing it as a ‘wet noodle’ after comparing the ride alongside my friend’s Intense Slopestyle (that may have been down to running q/r forks up front though . . . bolt-thru has made a big difference).

Looking too at the Transition Syren but there looks to be an awful lot going on with that shock mount . . .

. . . not dissimilar to an upside down Orange ST4 arrangement but looks like adjustments may be a bit of a nightmare.

Tazer is 10 months old and the lower bearings have developed a lot of play. Just thinking out loud really but is this likely to be a consequence of shorter travel and a shorter back end?

Tazer is 10 months old and the lower bearings have developed a lot of play. Just thinking out loud really but is this likely to be a consequence of shorter travel and a shorter back end?

No, more likely the number of bearings, size and sealing.

They say brake jack is more noticeable on longer travel bikes. The linkage in the pic does look convoluted to me but it will work and is just another way of driving a shock – unless it changes the rate it won’t make any difference in riding.

As you imply in your post, there are plenty of other aspects to frames (length & geometry) that are important too. Personally I am very cynical of most of the crap spouted by manfacturers re their suss designs and wouldn’t get hung up on it, try a few and get what works for you.

too busy to read this properly but a Horst Linkage is the way forward. Licensed by Spec and good enough for Spec/Nicolai/Titus/Ellsworth etc etc

New bearings after 10 months isn’t that bad if you’ve been riding it a lot in all weather, the bottom bearings on a VPP sit in crap all the time. Think my socom’s on the 3rd set in just under 2 years, but then I change them as soon as they start to go.

too busy to read this properly but a Horst Linkage is the way forward. Licensed by Spec and good enough for Spec/Nicolai/Titus/Ellsworth etc etc

Or Single pivot? Good enough for Commencal/Orange/Kona etc etc

Or DW-Link? Good enough for Turner/Iron Horse/Ibis etc etc

🙂

I likes single pivots, me.

It’s not the system, it’s what you do with it, the build and the geometry that counts.

Being Horst-link, DW, VPP whatever doesn’t automatically = good.

Those Focus horst-link bikes are good value kit wise but they’re meant to ride a bit turdy… granted, my wife’s almost identical looking Spesh is great! Mate demoed a Bionicon Golden Willow (horst-link if I’m not mistaken) and it was a total turd!

Also, too many awesome SP bikes about as well which are certainly an inconvenient truth for advocates of more modern designs…

As an SP owner, I admit I’d love a go on a Turner 5 Spot!

still too busy to read this fully but my experience with SP bikes has not been that great. Killed an SV2000 and the San Andreas I had only really felt good at 20mph+ Having said that though the San Ann was probably the most forgiving bike I’ve ever ridden. Currently have a Helius FR and have sold all my other bikes as they became redundant.

My feeling on this based on theoretical knowledge not real experience is that modern shocks with propedal and stuff can reduce most of the undesirable effects of single pivot suspension.

GaryLake – Member

It’s not the system, it’s what you do with it, the build and the geometry that counts.

This certainly has a grain of truth in it. as does this:

cynic-al – Member

…………. Personally I am very cynical of most of the crap spouted by manfacturers re their suss designs and wouldn’t get hung up on it, try a few and get what works for you.

I think it is important to separate the attributes of linkages that control the wheel path such as Horst link from linkages that affect how the shock is driven.

There really is only two types of sus design – double wishbone / parallelogram such as the horst link where there is a pivot in the chainstay and single pivot. How the shock is driven has no effect on the wheel path and its the wheel path that controls such things as bob under pedalling and brake jack. There are many variations on these designs but only the two basic types ( there are the odd ones with a sliding pivot which are slightly different)

Myself I believe in KISS.

Killed an SV2000 and the San Andreas I had only really felt good at 20mph+

Dragging up some dinosaurs there aren’t you!

From my limited experience i agree the geomtry plays a huge part in all this but in terms of durablity Turner bushings are the best, my wife has a ten year old turner xce and has changed the busings once, it was her only bike for all this time.
Stiffness for my my current bike a titus supermoto is the best tracking bike I have had .It ia a horst link and heavy but is incredible stiff and true. Big addition to the development of mtb riding is the bolt thru forks regardless the titus is the best for me.
Brake jack after I had a bullit I avoided single pivots for years but recently rode a yeti asr-sl great suspension feel for 3.9 inches of travel but I did not get on with the geomtry. No brake jack as such on the yeti. Chris Porter at Mojo suspension does not think it exists and maybe it is a bit if hype.

Personally the suspension designs, that have worked best for me have been horstlinks and the Giant Maestro system but there were issues on bearings there, so, in my very slow climbing i can do but descending i need lots of help with, Horst link bikes win especially if they can with turner grease port bushings.

At lass we ride with has a syren and its a cracking bike, i’d choose that over a kona any day.

As for brake jack on single pivots – well a lto of it is waht you get used to feeling – my foes fly (single pivot w/ shock link) has a Flaoting brake arm, and i certainly notice the difference when going back to the fxr (single pivot, shock link, shorter travel, no floating brake arm).

I dont think brake jack is linked solely to single pivots either – anything with a single pivot point on the chainstay will have problems with brake jack, i.e if the linkage pivot is the seat stay side of the rear axel then it will still suffer as the axel / brake / chainstay and pivot are one unit.

I’ve used single pivots (Orange Sub 5, Orange Patriot, Marin somethingorother), Horsts (Spec. Big Hit) I-drive and currently Giants Maestro (DW link equivilant) on a Reign.

Of the (admittedly very varied designs and intended uses) bike’s I’ve owned I wouldn’t swap the Reign for any of them, with the pro-pedal on medium I can pop the bike off small lips/drops, on it’s low setting I can blat down loose peak-style rubble descents and on full I can climb as well as I am capable of.

6″ rear travel, 140mm front, big grins and high recommendations!

Cheers all – just got back from shaving my head cutting my hair (told you I was bored) . . . plenty of replies to wade through there. The Syren is very tempting as it’s one of the few short frames with a reasonable amount of travel – I just need to get my head around that linkage.

Surely it’s all about the specific bike builders not the general sus design.

There will be pro’s and cons of each fundamental design but it doesn’t mean one is better than another.

A good designer will produce a good bike in the same way that Porsche produce good cars with an engine in the rear where all traditional thinking says it’s wrong.

I never feel the need to run pro pedal on anything other than fire road climbs – I think it feels horrible! I just think the Mojo custom tune on the Five is so spot on…

Not a fan of pro pedal either. I used to forget to switch it on and off on my Konas and the Tazer feels much better since I’ve set the platform on my Swinger to minimum.

The Syren is very tempting as it’s one of the few short frames with a reasonable amount of travel – I just need to get my head around that linkage.

The linkage on the syren isn’t anything abnormally complex – it’s the same setup used on the Orange ST4, Commencal froggywhotsits and also on Giant VTs circa 2003. A proven and popular shock linkage.