i've been thinking about getting a short travel FS, but i want it strong and agile. something around the 4" travel department, but i would like to be able to get up hills on it.
doesn't seem to be a lot on the market, or that i am aware of.
i welcome your recommendations.
Orange ST4.
All boxes ticked.
Blur 4X if you can find one
Ventana El Saltamontes
giant trance
Hemlock with short rockers?
Turner Flux - strong, short travel, not the lightest though. Picking up my new DW Spot frame tomorrow too!
think that is enough for me to be going on with
You've got some good suggestions - just consider the general category of 4x bikes, like the Blur 4x, which they don't make anymore. The Commencal Meta 4x is pretty sweet and Mythic/Banshee do one called the Rampant which is really good. Freeborn have them in.
i was looking at the meta 4x, but could this be used for lugging up the odd hill with a long enough seat post
I was looking at one myself a year ago and the bike shop reckoned it was sort of possible but not ideal. It would really depend on how important it was to you to go up hill and how tall you are.
Blur 4x is certainly rideable up hill but it is really heavy. The 4x isn't exactly light either, but it is light enough to pedal for a few hours.
There's only one real way to find out 
How about a small Commencal 4.1? Certainly strong enough and prolly a wee bit better than the 4X for general trail duties. Depends if you get out for much longer than a couple of hours though.
Dirt this month are loving the Cannondale Rush - big tyres, short stem and slightly bigger forks than the 110mm Lefty and you're sorted.
kona howler is excellent.... silly cheap deals knocking about a few months ago on the '07 models
My large Blur 4X with Hope Hoops (5.1s), Pikes, XT and Thomson/Easton finishing kit, including flats is just under 30lb. By no means lightweight but not that heavy either.
Blur 4x
Commencal Meta 4
Yeti 4x
Or bit of an odd one but second hand Orange Sub 3.
Turner burner?
Santa Cruz superlight?
Trance. Allegedly a XC / trail frame but rides far bigger than the 4.2" rear travel would suggest.
It also just so happens I'm advertising one on the classifieds 
jfeb - that's an impressive weight and absolutely light enough! All the 4xs I've picked up have felt considerably heavier.
I would also suggest a Blur 4X. Thats what I run myself. My girlfriend runs a Meta 4X & wants to swap it out for a Blur now too.
Mine weighs in at just over 27lbs, with a lot of lightweight kit. Its an awesome bike. Maybe a little long & slack for the technical climbs, but it makes up for it tenfold on the flat & down bits.
How about a small Commencal 4.1? Certainly strong enough and prolly a wee bit better than the 4X for general trail duties. Depends if you get out for much longer than a couple of hours though.Dirt this month are loving the Cannondale Rush - big tyres, short stem and slightly bigger forks than the 110mm Lefty and you're sorted.
I've got a commencal 4X and a Rush (with 130mm lefty and big tyres).
Rush is a better all day bike - lighter, longer top tube and climbs better but still handles great and fun downhill.
The 4X is heavier, probably a fair bit stronger and lethal! By that I mean that it is really chuckable and very grippy, such that you end up riding waaaay too fast!
Grab an '08 Trance while there's still a few left, I did and I'm loving mine.
the athertons (back when they were giant sponsored) used small trance frames for superX and 4X.
a robot built alu frame is about as tough as they come in my opinion.
ive got a 21" XL trance with revs (mmmm, lanky), i wouldnt mind a Small one with pikes and a short stem for "dicking about" on to compliment it
Corsair Konig.. little bit more travel than you wanted but otherwise would seam to tick all the boxes
What's the big deal about the 08 Trance frame in particular compared to the 07 or 09?
Just asking as I don't know.
What's the big deal about the 08 Trance frame in particular compared to the 07 or 09?
'08 was considerably lighter than previous years.
And it's now been discontinued, with Trance X (5in travel) and Anthem X (4in, but steeper geometry) remaining.
07 trance: Old shape, bit on the porky side
08 trance: new shape, rides exactly the same as the old one, but is something like a pound lighter, has 2 less bearings and one less shock bush (only as one at the top)
09: replaced by the anthem X, 4" instead of 4.2", but more importantly, steeper angles i believe. rides like an XC bike i would imagine, rather than a trail bike (though this is hypothisis, as ive never ridden an AnthemX)
the trail bikes now start at the 5" tranceX
I thought the 2008 Trance head angle of 69.5 degree was still pretty steep?
BTW, how light does an average 08 Trance build weigh?
Commencal Meta 4X.....all day long....
Mine became my main trail bike....mini DH bike....all-day bike.....
With the adjusted head sleeve and a set of Pikes @ 140 - perfect....
Rear triangle is super stiff with the QR nevermind the maxle....
You'll need to drill a small hole in the base of the rear triangle though if you want to run a front mech....
I've honestly never come across a bike like it......was hoping the Super 4 would be a good alternative but it's a little flexy and a tad too steep....
The seat tube is a little slack on the 4X too so you need to position the saddle to accommodate....but, can be done....
Buy one.....it WILL change your life!!
I've got a Blur 4X and it's great - but I'm lusting after an Orange Blood - 127mm travel and not so many bearings to go wrong! I think it looks similar to the Blur too.
blood looks ace! get an st4 or that
I thought the 2008 Trance head angle of 69.5 degree was still pretty steep?
It doesn't feel as steep as that angle suggests, even with the fork at 100mm, but if I wind it out to 130mm it's far more confident - yet still feels manages to feel quite nippy.
acjim - same No of bearings on the Orange, I'd stick with the Blur (far better suspension system IMO) but then I'd always choose less travel over a single pivot sus design.
GW, they're the same travel and I think the blood has just a single pivot on by the bb where as the blur has a pair. It's this set which, on the blur, is the one that comes loose/needs a grease up every so often.
The VPP is great but has funny pedal feedback in the granny ring unless the shock is full propedalled out.
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