No, I’m NOT asking for a new bike. I’d be perfectly happy with an old frame and new bits. My current plan is a second hand/ex demo and replace what’s necessary with the change (if any).

Now, original question. Anybody ride an Epic at Cwmcarn?

2 n half bags for a 10 year old Stumpy…..I bet you haven’t even spent that much on it even with your upgrades.

Always nice to haggle a bit though and make em sweat a bit. Fair play if you get more but don’t expect LBS to be helpful in the future

Had a 2006 Stumpjumper Expert, but sold it and regretted it ever since,one of my favourite bikes. Hope you get yours back.

£2.5k will easily buy what you want and leave change. FWIW I built up a nearly new bike that cost £2600 off the peg at the time for around £1200, and that’s full XT, Magura Louise Carbons, RS revs and DT 240/mavic 717 wheels. The used parts were the frame, the brakes, the seat post and bars, and the rear hub. Everything else was brand new current model stuff. (I didn’t work in a bike shop at the time either!)
I think you’ve got at least double what the stolen bike was worth. I’d be happy as a pig in shit personally! 🙂

+1 for 10 year old bike for £2500

this!

You’ve had a 10 year old bike valued at two and a half grand???

+1

Can I leave my 2010 Santa Cruz Butcher-framed bike in that shop too please?

Shit happens and the shops insurance will hike but you’ll come out of this better off. Be polite and alittle nice to the shop. I imagine someone got abit of shit for this.

I don’t think the OP is being unreasonable in wanting a replacement for his bike, and the age is a red herring.

I have a 10 year old Madone, 1000g frame, full Dura Ace, Race X Lite wheels, carbon bars etc. If that was valued at £2500 the new replacement wouldn’t even be in the same league – it’s the shop’s screw up, I’d be wanting a modern equivalent with full Dura Ace, Race X Lite wheels etc, they’ve got to suck it up.

I would also push the trade angle – if the insurance give them £2500 and they give you a £2500 bike (at retail) they pocket the difference – you want a bike that costs them £2500 (or the £2500 cash), so £3500 bikes are more suitable.

At £2500, tear their arm off before they change their mind, very generous!

Remind me never to get into a knife fight with njee20. I’d ‘nick his arm and be finished. Whereas he’d slaughter me, my family, friends and anyone who has ever said ‘hi’ to me.

Remind me never to get into a knife fight with njee20. I’d ‘nick his arm and be finished. Whereas he’d slaughter me, my family, friends and anyone who has ever said ‘hi’ to me.

What? Bit early to be pissed.

I would suggest taking the 2.5K cash. If the LBS had any morals they would see you right with a something that was going to cost them 2.5K or near as damn it.
If not trawling the special offers would get a tidy bike for that sum I would say.

What? Bit early to be pissed.

Slowly backs away, hey ok ok your right, whatever you say.

You’re*

I just don’t understand what you said. But if you can back away from the forum altogether that would be marvellous.

Person has bike stolen. IMO (in this instance specifically), he’s entitled to an equivalent replacement, the sum isn’t really what it’s about, even if it’s perceived to be generous for the age of the bike.

Camber might be more a ‘trailsy’ version but why wouldn’t an epic ride fine at a trail centre?

Canyon Spectral, and you’d have change for another bike!!

https://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes/series/spectral-al.html

I’d want to know what the insurance valuing your (ex) bike at £2.5K actually meant in brass tacks to the bike shop – i.e. does that mean they are going to end up with a cheque for £2.5K though the post, or does it mean the same as when you make a domestic claim and get £X to spend at Wheelies, but it doesn’t cost the insurance company anything like £X.

If they actually get a cheque for £2.5K I’d expect them to make absolutely no profit from the whole debacle. You should have £2.5K to spend at trade plus VAT(thinking about it, would VAT be payable if the money is given to the company to spend on stock it will right off, not to a private individual to spend) . If you end up with a better bike than you started with that’s just a nice positive but they should in no way be expecting to make a profit out of it.

Camber might be more a ‘trailsy’ version but why wouldn’t an epic ride fine at a trail centre?

I had 3 consecutive Epics and used to ride Cwmcarn most weeks, not the ideal bike, but certainly very capable. More or less so than a 2004 Stumpy… dunno, probably more, but that’s not really the comparison to make, as you rightly say ‘trail’ type bikes have got longer travel and slacker and what not.

If they actually get a cheque for £2.5 I’d expect them to make absolutely no profit from the whole debacle. You should have £2.5K to spend at trade plus VAT. If you end up with a better bike than you started with that’s just a nice positive but they should in no way expecting to make a profit out of it.

Which was my point exactly. My feeling is that as they’re pushing a brand they sell, that’s what’s happening – they’re being given a cheque for £2500, and are trying to offset their loss.

I’d want a like for like regardless of the age

As the others have mentioned, I’d be getting the shop to push for more money and getting a bike at near trade price plus excess.

Eh?

If your 10 y/o car had been stolen from a garage their insurance would be offering you the value of a 10 y/o car, irrelevent of you having just put on new tyres/wheels on it…

Stop been an ar5e and go down to the LBS and spend the £2.5k on whichever the best/most-suited bike they do.

Sorted:

http://www.trekbikes.com/uk/en/bikes/mountain/singletrack_trail/fuel_ex/fuel_ex_8_27/#

or

http://www.trekbikes.com/uk/en/bikes/mountain/cross_country/superfly_fs/superfly_fs_8_uk/#

I’d want a like for like regardless of the age

**forsees loss adjuster scouring gumtree**

If your 10 y/o car had been stolen from a garage their insurance would be offering you the value of a 10 y/o car, irrelevent of you having just put on new tyres/wheels on it…

The issue with car analogies is there’s a very well set up network of second hand cars, with agreed values, good supply etc. So yes, if your car gets nicked and they give you a generous replacement value you can likely toddle off and get a very similar or better car.

That infrastructure isn’t there for bikes, so the OP risks ending up with a worse bike because the shop are lax with their security.

Did you have the bike insured, if so what was the value it was insured for.

Like for like is hard on a such a build unless they value the frame at current second hand value plus parts at new prices plus price for the shop to source and build.

Would that be £2500?, I would also expect a certain amount of goodwill from the shop for there negligence and your inconvenience. So if they were getting a cheque for £2500 I would expect them to supply you with a bike you are very happy with at that figure trade, not RRP.

I have 2010 five , I bought the frame second hand and bought everything else new and would expect the cost of my build reimbursed if it was stolen plus a sweetener from the bike shop by the way of a sorry for getting it stolen in the first place.

I’ve got a 2004 Stumpy in my garage (well, more acurately, my wife has).
I’d flog it for a quarter of what you’ve been offered.

£2.5k! Flippin’ Christmas come early is that!

Have a stepped into a Parallel universe ?

Bloke had a 2004 Stumpy and has been offered the price of a top spec bike… He can buy a super duper bike for the money and people are saying he should be getting a better deal ?

Had crossed my mind too 😕

Why not talk nicely to the shop and see if they are prepared to do you some sort of deal?

Eh? they’ve offered 2.5K for a bike that was worth £500ish at best

they’ve offered

Not quite – the insurance company has offered £2.5K. The only favour the bike shop might have done so far is maybe be a little ‘flowery’ in their description of the bike which has generated the insurance company offer.

I’d agree the value is impressive for the bike, but I just hope the shop does not attempt to take advantage of the situation and effectively turn it into a profit making sale.

Hmmm, I’d say it was pretty flowery to get to that figure 😉

As said above take it quick before the insurance bods change their minds.

I just don’t understand what you said. But if you can back away from the forum altogether that would be marvellous.

I don’t take orders from bighitters. Soz.

Not quite – the insurance company has offered £2.5K. The only favour the bike shop might have done so far is maybe be a little ‘flowery’ in their description of the bike which has generated the insurance company offer.

I’d agree the value is impressing for the bike, but I just hope the shop does not attempt to take advantage of the situation and effectively turn it into a sale.

Was it Wheelies(?) that handled insurance claim bikes for big insurance companies and you got alot less it seemed (i.e was loaded in Wheelies favour)?

If the figure is £2,500 from the insurance company I’d see that as £2,500 for a bike at a significant discount (i.e trade). Afterall the bike isn’t being sold to you as a retail sale. Its to make up for a loss to you. So if they said ‘chose any of these at £2,500 RRP’ I guess I’d say hang on a minute I’m not a customer buying a product, your replacing one’…

vodka and gatorade? 😉

Bloke had a 2004 Stumpy and has been offered the price of a top spec bike…

Bollocks have they, good chunk of money, but top spec? Pull the other one. 1/3 the cost of the top Specialized.

they’ve offered 2.5K for a bike that was worth £500ish at best

The value is immaterial. He wants a bike, he didn’t want to sell his old one, he didn’t want £500. Will £2500 give him a better bike than before? If the OP is content that it will then it’s reasonable, if not, then it isn’t. Simple as that. He shouldn’t be inconvenienced or out of pocket because the shop are shit.

Njee – If you had a £1000 Mondeo and fitted a new exhaust and 4 new Continental tyres at a cost of £800, then some idiot wrote it off on the way home
Would you expect a pay out of £1800 or £1000?

Bollocks have they, good chunk of money, but top spec? Pull the other one. 1/3 the cost of the top Specialized.

The bike he owned at 1/10th of that Specialized.

Inconvenienced by replacing a 10 year old bike with a Brand new fully warrantied one ?

A 2004 Stumpy is not a 2014 Stumpy, so it’s unreasonable to suggest that you’d get a top spec Stumpy now as it’s simply going to be a lot better than the 2004.

Case in point – the Specialized Pitch, when it launched circa 2008, was a better bike than an Enduro of 2004 era (heresy I know, but I had one).

Same applies to groupsets, trickle down from the top down means that, to use the road analogy, 10 year old Dura Ace is no better than current Ultegra.

If I took my Enduro into a shop and it got nicked, I’d be overjoyed if I got £2500 for a ten year old bike. That said, I’d be overjoyed if I got £500 for it…

It was not a 10 year old bike.
It was a ten year old frame with new components, There is a difference.
The cost of the build as of when stolen is what he is entitled to.
If that build cost less than £2500 he is quids in.

Even so, i would not expect the shop to make a penny as they were ultimately responsible for his bike when stolen.
And I am sure do not want to be known as the bike shop who lose your bike through negligence and then profit from it.
As such a shop I would not do business with.
So if only to save face should make sure the customer gets the full benefit of the kind offer from there insurance company as a token of there goodwill and letting future customers know that there bikes would be well looked after in future.

Njee – If you had a £1000 Mondeo and fitted a new exhaust and 4 new Continental tyres at a cost of £800, then some idiot wrote it off on the way home
Would you expect a pay out of £1800 or £1000?

Again, car analogies are hugely flawed because of the industry around second hand purchases, there’s also something in that around consumables. If that 2004 Mondeo had a Cosworth engine in it, new dampers all round, Brembo brakes and uprated clutch I’d expect more than the list price of a stock 2004 Mondeo…

Basically, I’d expect to be restored to what I had before, seeing as there’s no agreed prices for second hand bikes having an equivalent spec new bike doesn’t seem unreasonable, I’d certainly not want a downgrade. This is a special case too, as the ineptitude of the shop has to figure.

10 year old Dura Ace is no better than current Ultegra.

Based on what? You used both extensively? 7800 Dura Ace is a lot lighter and the brakes are more powerful. The smoothness of the shift is virtually impossible to differentiate, although I’m sure Shimano try! 6700 Ultegra (and 7900 Dura Ace) are horrible in comparison IMO, certainly not trickle down technology! How do you define better? 11 speed Ultegra brings other advantages, but it’s not better, and again, if I lost my Dura Ace equipped bike from a shop and they said “here’s an Ultegra one to replace it, it is newer”, I’d tell them to jog on and try harder. Likewise if my (hypothetical) 2004 Audi RS4 got stolen from their care and they said “here’s a new 1.8l A4” I’d not be happy – you should end up with something akin to what you started with, or be satisfied with the alternative.

Again though, this is a special case because of the shop involvement IMO.

Case in point – the Specialized Pitch, when it launched circa 2008, was a better bike than an Enduro of 2004 era (heresy I know, but I had one).

The Pitch came out in 2007 and was an abject failure at launch frankly. Spesh could barely sell them, they ended up with so many left over they discounted them heavily and kept the models the same the following year. For whatever reason they then became hugely popular and flew off the shelves.

The 2004 Enduro was a bit of a tough sell, the revised Stumpjumper FSR came out (there having not been one in 2003, just the Epic and Enduro) and was a massively popular bike, we sold dozens of them. Only time we’ve ever bought in a load of frames and pre-built them to sell as they were so popular. A 2014 Stumpjumper is different, granted, but I still don’t see why the OP should end up with something of a lesser spec.

I had a discussion in work with one of our household insurers the other day, specifically about the cycle part of it. (I was wondering whether to take it out.)

I asked if I had a bike stolen would there be a wear and tear element. Answer – no. If my bike was stolen, the replacement value would be based on a directly equivalent version of this year’s bike. Not downgraded in a this-years-Deore-is better-than-XT-5-years-ago style. An XT equipped bike, 10 years old would be equivalent to this years XT equipped bike for reasons which njee20 has already given.

It’s exactly the same way as Wheelies Direct works – I used to work there unfortunately – and all the insurers that work through Wheelies.

The OP is entitled to an equivalent bike to the one that was stolen. Very few insurers, if any, would argue otherwise.

£2500 buys this: Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Comp EVO 650b A mix of SRAM X7, X9 rear mech and Deore brakes.

That’s not what he had stolen regardless of how good the frame is compared to the original bike.

Let’s not forget that bike prices have shot up since 2004 but that’s not the OPs fault. He may not have paid £2500 for his bike but on current replacement prices it’s actually worth a lot more than what’s been offered.

Fwiw I’d be pressing to speak to the insurers directly, not through the shop, and be arguing for a higher settlement based on that crap-spec Spesh above. 😀

Njee – What would have you valued the stolen bike at?

you seem to be overlooking the insurance aspect here. What can the insurer do to replace like with like?
It’s still a generous offer as they can’t directly replace it.

At the end of the day insurance companies deal with facts not opinions and they have to monetise their offer. They can’t offer good will or homemade lemonade, just an alternative lump of metal or cash

The OP is entitled to an equivalent bike to the one that was stolen. Very few insurers, if any, would argue otherwise.

Some definitely do, but in this context I think it has to be new for old.

Njee – What would have you valued the stolen bike at?

you seem to be overlooking the insurance aspect here. What can the insurer do to replace like with like?

Again, in this context, the number is (potentially) irrelevant. I value it as a Specialized FS bike with an XT groupset etc. That’s what the OP should have, because that’s what he had before. If there was a Glasses guide to second hand bikes, and a website with thousands of examples of second hand 2004 Stumpjumpers with 650b wheels and an XT groupset then the monetary amount should be enough to get one of those. There’s not.

Again, because of the shop element to this the monetised offer is not hugely relevant, the shop are in a position to supply an equivalent bike, and actually are potentially going to profit from this by offering the OP a £2500 bike at retail, when really I’d say that’s a little unfair.

If the shop cannot supply a bike to an equivalent spec that the OP is happy with, they should be providing a cash settlement to purchase an equivalent bike.

Look at the millions of threads about home insurance – people are always asking about whether it’s new for old cover and placing value in that, why on earth should the OP now suck up a massive loss due to wear and tear when it’s absolutely nothing to do with anything he’s done!?

They cannot replace like for like, so shouldn’t be trying, they should replace new for old.