Why be proud of a country when you haven't made it as it is?
Because it shows an understanding of the history and culture of a place, and shows an appreciation for the benefits that an accident of birth has bestowed upon you.
And conversely, if you can't feel proud of a place then how can you be ashamed of it when its communal values are not upheld?
I hope to see full independence for a Scottish republic in my lifetime.
*shudder*
I hope to see full independence for an English republic in my lifetime.
Me too.
Genuine question: What is the problem with a positive achievement by a Scottish individual or team is reported as a British one?
I think everyone is aware that irritable almost-winner of tennis Andy Murray is Scottish, for example. No-one thinks he's English. Why does it annoy so many people that some people who are not Scots cheer for him and count his wins as wins that make them feel good?
Is it just because the reason provided is that he is described as British, and is supported as such by people who have more truck for "British" as an idea than you do?
i would see myself as british first and probably english second, either way i feel lucky to have grown up in a country with an NHS some amazing countryside, an attitude of tolerance and inclusion, the scouts, jumpers for goalposts etc
I never really appreciate my hometown when i was younger but as ive aged ive become a bigger fan of luton town fc and i love the dunstable downs
I think nationalism is tied in with sentimentality and to my mind thats a good thing only up to the point where it stops you thinking objectively
Therefore im always suspicous of anyone who harps on about nationalism too much, it smacks of someone who will defend his country or the actions of his countrymen even when they are in the wrong, it also implies that they think less of other countries or people which is quite frankly a load of tosh
BD - Using your example then, his results can be reported as a 'British success' one day and a 'Scottish failure' the next. I agree that either term might be used, but should be applied consistently.
Catching myself and wondering where I bought these tartan-tinted specs ...
BD: as above, I have no objection when "a positive achievement by a Scottish individual or team is reported as a British one" as long as an English achievement is likewise "British" and the (sadly more common) failures are also "British".
What most Scots are sensitive to is that athletes/teams/whatever are only British when they are winning and Scottish when they lose, but conversely English when they are winning and British when they lose.
What most Scots are sensitive to is that athletes/teams/whatever are only British when they are winning and Scottish when they lose, but conversely English when they are winning and British when they lose.
Can anyone post an example of this actually happening? Posting articles from two different newspapers doesn't count btw.
ScotlandTheScared
I'm Scottish. And I'm British. I hate all this SNP independence crap - we are part of the UK and I for one think Salmond should sod off...
GrahamS
Tick!
Always described myself as such. European third, Earthling fourth.
If a form says "Nationality" I always put Scottish, I suspect most pancakes do likewise.
I sincerely hope that we do get a referendum on independence and that the vote is to maintain the union. Purely in the hope that Salmond will stop harping on about how all Scots want independence.
No we don't thanks Alex. Actually a significant number think it would be a bad idea or at least have some major concerns.
That about sums it up for me too.
What most Scots are sensitive to is that athletes/teams/whatever are only British when they are winning and Scottish when they lose
I don't recall ever hearing about the British world elephant polo champions - not once
The BBC reported
"Scotland are celebrating sporting glory after being crowned world champions of elephant polo ..........
.....With this victory, no one can deny Scotland are one of the world's sporting heavyweights"
Stop laughing at the back there
British when they are winning and Scottish when they lose
I must admit, I struggle to think of an example of this. Certainly I wasn't aware of Murray ceasing to be British on exiting Wimbledon for example.
Of course, I'm not sensitive to it so I wouldn't necessarily notice. But it would help my sense that this grievance is a little out of proportion if someone could give us a reference. 
Big Dummy - Its a lot less prevalent than it used to be. I think the sports commentators are far more wary than they used to be about the nationality thing.
Its still heard sometimes tho.
see what I did there TJ?
I hid the dreaded 40th post until you posted
I'm Scottish and happy to say that I detest the SNP, particularly the ghastly Nicola Sturgeon and Alex Salmond duo.
Proud to be Scottish and British. I love the fact that the seperate parts that make our nation have their own strong identities, but that as a whole we have a strong identity too. I echo the hope that there is a referendum which null and voids the SNP devolution tosh once and for all.
I worry that people from other parts of the UK think we are all rabid SNP fanatics. I believe the SNP are only in power due to the low turn out at the relevant elections and people being sick of Labour. Not a huge fan of recent Labour antics either but they are the lesser of two evils by some way.
I don't think I have ever been so disappointed at an election result than SNP's victory. Upset is probably a better word actually...
trailmonkey - MemberChicken Balti is as English as Yorkshire pud.
Funny cos I thought that Wales, Scotland and Ireland had Indian curry houses aplenty too.
Balti is surely as British as ......... something really British?
Balti is surely as British as......arguing about what being British is
In the true STW tradition - I haven't read the whole thread!
Scottish is by definition British IMO.
Just as I live in Sussex, which is in England, which is also in Britain.
If I were Scottish I would describe myself as Scottish. Now that's all absoloutely clear, ahem I'm off riding and drinking for the evening.
I believe the SNP are only in power due to the low turn out at the relevant elections...
Actually I think they benefited from by offering something most of the UK doesn't have: a viable third option!
They got in on the back of folk who were/are hacked off with Labour, but couldn't bring themselves to vote Tory.
In theory LibDems offer this third way to England, but who actually thinks they will ever get in?
Funny cos I thought that Wales, Scotland and Ireland had Indian curry houses aplenty too.Balti is surely as British as ......... something really British?
Comes from Birmingham as far as I know. I'm sure we've exported it since though.
I believe the SNP vote was more positive than some - the interesting thing will be the next holyrood election however. Labour have covered themselves in mud over their reaction to the SNP - its all been "yah boo sucks" and automatic opposition to them. Scottish labour have been shown to be political pygmies. NO attempt at consensual politics which the rest of the parliament have engaged in.
On the curry thing - my understanding is that Balti is Birmingham whereas chicken tikka masala is Glaswegian
I'm happy and proud to be both Scottish and British. No time for the SNP, though I did think they were right re being compassionate recently.
T'were a Scot who said 'small nations are the curse of the earth'.
I concur.
We I&I are all from roundabouts Ethiopia originally anyways are we not...
"Ok, i've noticed that some people like to describe themselves as Scottish rather than British, which is fine. My confusion is with those who insist Scots are NOT British?"
people are people, you get it the other way around, people are the same everywhere you go. i dont like any of the SNP bullshit, its a daft idea being independent of britain.
I'd vote for Scottish Independence in a flash. The major benefit would be that Scots wouldn't be able to blame the English for everything that goes wrong.
cullen-bay - Memberpeople are people, you get it the other way around, people are the same everywhere you go. i dont like any of the SNP bullshit, its a daft idea being independent of britain.
[pedant mode]
Scotland can never be independent of Britain as Britain would cease to exist
[/pedant mode]
cullen-bay - Member
... i dont like any of the SNP bullshit, its a daft idea being independent of britain.
I suspect you are too young to vote
druidh - Member
...Scotland can never be independent of Britain as Britain would cease to exist...
And the problem with that is ... ?
Why won't the Scots stop banging on about their precious little country?
It's exceeding boring to have endured to this moan for forty odd years!
I'm tired of the warped prejudices. Some would call it racism!
BORING!!!
Come on guys, get over it!
(and huge respect to all the grown up people who hail from Scotland who don't feel compelled to discriminate and or bore everyone else to death about their identity)
spongebob - rather more than 40 yrs old chap. Since the days of the shortarse italian woofter at least
Surely the only way to maintain and/or preserve a national identity/culture is to become ever more parochial and xenophobic?
The debate about 'Englishness' and the perpetual bemoaning of the loss of the English culture is a major case of not seeing the wood for the trees; 'Englishness' is characterised by a lack of concern regarding its existence, unlike 'Scottishness' which seems at times to be in danger of becoming a caricature.
Fight for your identity by all means, but recognise that it's a cul-de-sac.
Spongebob - MemberWhy won't the Scots stop banging on about their precious little country?
It's exceeding boring to have endured to this moan for forty odd years!
I'm tired of the warped prejudices. Some would call it racism!
BORING!!!
Come on guys, get over it!
(and huge respect to all the grown up people who hail from Scotland who don't feel compelled to discriminate and or bore everyone else to death about their identity)
And who started this thread? A Scot? Go back through STW and find me some threads where Scots have started to moan about England. It seems that the boot is very much on the other foot these days (or should that be chip on the other shoulder?)
I am British and I love the British Isles. I once worked out I could play for all 4 home nations. I wouldnt be bothered if Scotland became independent because it would just be like the Republic of Ireland same place just funny money (or should that be funnier money)
I started the thread 'cos i was (still am) confused by the concept that Scots are not British.
As far as i see it, until Scotland votes for independence then Scots are part of the UK of GB. Even then Scots will still be 'British' in a geographical sense as Scotland will still be a Nation within the island of Britain.
I don't hate or dislike Scots, i do take a little exception to a Scot telling me the English have no culture though!
The one thing i find tiresome (as a medieval re-enactor) is the constant assertion by Scottish members of the public telling me that medieval Scots wore tartan plaid etc when there is not one single piece of evidence to support this claim - we constantly have to prevent the appearance of the 'Clan McHalfords' in their tartan dog blankets at certain medieval events. Bannockburn being a particular event that springs to mind.
My lot have stopped doing that event because of the overt anti-English racism from a vocal but threatening minority of the public. Being spat at during the show then having to stand guard all night because of the danger of night raids by drunken idiots tends to put people off travelling to the event.
Personally i blame the SnG for whipping up the hatred, burning the Union Flag at midnight tends to set the lunacy off and for a couple of hrs after the drunks are out for trouble.
The stupidity extends to the mainly Scottish re-enactors portraying the 'English' army having insults and objects thrown at them because they are the 'English bastards'.
That's before we even get to the members of the audience wearing dog blankets and carrying real weapons leaping out of the crowd in order to attack the English.. (Yes, it HAS happened!)
I personally love the Englander, every Scottish family should have one as a pet, on a leash tied to a stab in the back garden.
C'mon, what aload of pish, I've worked for mainly English (sorry British) companies most of my working life including a spell with the Queens finest, and I've never experienced any of the above said.
Yes I do agree with you regarding the SNP, clowns and totally out of their depth, that's where my opening comment is aimed at,(sorry I should have said that at the start).
Do not tar us all with the same brush mate, yes as in England, Ireland and Wales you get the hard core element but C'mon...
I'm Scottish in the same way as you are English but I have a British pride and for all that it stands for, and I am proud of that.
I am Scottish and proud to be a Scot......I used to think it was best for Scotland to be part of the UK......now I am not so sure. Scotland pays far more in taxes and lost revenue than it recieves back from Londoon so just maybe wee Eck might gets his after alone and we will stand as a Nation again and send them awe hame tae think again!
This topic has been closed to new replies.
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