[Closed] Roadie Content: TT's and having "all the gear"

Perhaps a minute. Buy yourself a skinsuit and an aero helmet and spend some time optimising your position, those are some of the biggest gains to be had.

Position is the biggest difference to TT times. Maybe a cheap second hand TT?

Some decent road shoes and pedals will make a difference. Don't need to be mega expensive. The cheapest Shimano and a pair of say Specialized Comp will make a world of difference.

There was a good article (on road.cc IIRC) comparing std bike vs one with aero bars then wheels and probs a helmet.

The main thing was the aero bars, the helmet, wheels and bike all made about the same difference - about 1/3 of the bars IIRC.

Good times for a noob BTW, well done.

Does anybody know how to quantify what effect a uber aero & light bike plus "all the gear" would make to my times?

You already sold out when you fitted clip on bars to a road bike.

Its road bike or the full blown TT rig.

why bother with all that,
you'll be faster than others
others will be faster than you
so just enjoy it and spend the money on holidays and beer and pies.

[quote=dannybgoode ]Some decent road shoes and pedals will make a difference.

Some being quite close to bugger all.

Start with the clothes - just a tight fitting top and getting rid of the gloves (tests show that bare handed is a significant improvement) will make a lot more difference than the shoes.

Though it's worth mentioning again that the most important thing is position - with a standard road bike you can move the saddle forwards and lower the bars to improve that.

Position:
I'm working on that each week.

Skin Suite:
Er I weight 14 stone! enough said.

Road Specific Shoes & Pedals:
Why ? My MTB shoes are Carbon soles and SOOO stiff, and I don't get "Hot Spots" around the cleats even after 80+ miles. Is it all about "fitting in ?"

I was in a similar situation with basic road bike, mtb shoes etc. last year.

My fastest 25 miler time was around 1:09. One of the experienced TT riders reckoned I would benefit most from getting my position on the bike right and losing some weight. He reckoned that sorting that would see me get down to around 1:05 and then if I wanted any chance of dipping under 60 minutes I would need to be a lot fitter and have a proper TT bike.

I remember overtaking a rider who had all the gear but was looking down so his streamlined helmet was like an air-brake sticking up in the air...

I've gone back to just riding around my local trails this year, much more relaxing 🙂

'Al

Good times for a noob BTW, well done.

Cheers, I was happy with being under 30 for my 1st. getting to 25 was great... This week I want to get a 24: something .... but without spending too much money the equation for the correct number of bikes being N+1 is not washing to well with Mrs Adi66 at the moment!

So it's time to dig out a old "too small" jersey, and duck a little lower in the Tri Bars ! lol

Ditch the MTB shoes, get some proper road shoes & pedals, you'll get WAY more power down through them.

Ditch the baggy top - it might look cool on an MTB but it looks wrong on a road bike.

Ignore what everybody has told you and buy Dr Hutch's book Faster 😉

I've gone back to just riding around my local trails this year, much more relaxing

I LOVE the Sadism of "Pushing myself to the Limit" it REALLY appeals to my Psyche 😛

[quote=adi66 ]Skin Suite:
Er I weight 14 stone! enough said.

Yes, and?

[img] [/img]

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/that-portly-chap-in-the-lampre-kit-might-have-kin-in-fife

Are your teeth nice and straight? If not, a smooth gumshield is a must.

Stick with the kit you've got then you'll know for sure how much any improvement is due to training and increased fitness.

Don't forget shaving the legs.. gotta be worth minus 2 mins on a 10.

OP - I've been having similar ponderings to you. Never did a TT before moving to the area and the local club is very TT orientated (it's pan flat around here), I've tried a few on the road bike and enjoyed but the kit that they all use makes BOS suspension look affordable. One of the things I like about road bikes is that urge to spend big bucks on magical kit that will make me faster isn't there, as opposed to the MTB where I still get sucked in to suspension efficiency and the tyre speed and grip claims, TT is like MTB in that way - especially with the wheels.

Some of the club members are trying to get me hooked and I've been offered some good secondhand kit but I've come to the conclusion that the only person I'm kidding is myself as I won't be anywhere near the fastest. I'm going to suggest at the AGM that the those who ride on standard road bike with no aero helmet or tri bars should get there own section in the club TTs so at least we can compare to each other.

Having said all that those aero wheels and disks sound amazing!!!

It's always an unpopular suggestion, but have you considered training?

Riding a Zipp equipped, Scott Plasma!! lol

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/that-portly-chap-in-the-lampre-kit-might-have-kin-in-fife

Point taken on the tight clothes.

 

One of the things I like about road bikes is that urge to spend big bucks on magical kit that will make me faster isn't there,

😯

Not TT but road bike, on the same hill with roughly the same effort, kit (no pointy hat though) and position. Dead scientific like.....

max speed on a round tubed, shallow wheeled, spd pedaled bike with mtb shoes and 23mm tires- 33mph

max speed on an aero framed, 50mm wheeled, proper pedaled bike with stiff road shoes and 25mm tires- 42 mph

Having said all that those aero wheels and disks sound amazing!!!

Yeah, strangely I though about those wheels when I put the wheelie bins out this morning! lol

.... I'm only jealous, cos they look BAD ASS, and I'm seriously wanting.

Turn your seatpost the other way round; puts you over the front of the bike more, which isn't as comfortable, but is more efficient.

Cost: £0.00. 8)

Shoes will make very, very little difference - if anything, seeing as you've carbon soled mtb shoes, it'll purely be in aerodynamics/weight that the improvement would come. I went for the full set up this year for the first time and it almost felt like cheating. Helmet makes massive difference and wheels make massive difference, after that TT frame made a reasonable difference but only because it allowed a much better position thanks to the relatively shorter TT allowing tri-bar tuck to be set up optimally.

Don't move your saddle forward.

What a coincidence this thread is. I was thinking exactly the same after doing a 10 mile TT this morning. Obviously it wasn't an official TT (it was 5am this morning on the way to work) but a strava segment that someone has made up after doing the official meeting on a midweek evening. My bike was a bog standard sensa romagna, mtb pedals and shoes but unlike the op dressed in Lycra. Managed a time of 24:32 so although really happy with that I was wondering like the OP how faster I could of done.

Managed a time of 24:32 so although really happy with that I was wondering like the OP how faster I could of done.

Good Man 🙂

Have you shaved your forearms....

Get one of these bargains - only available in larger sizes now Kinda like a skinsuit but can use for road biking.

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/castelli-sanremo-2-0-speed-suit/rp-prod94224

This article is quite good too: [url= http://www.bikeradar.com/road/gear/article/how-aero-is-aero-19273/ ]How aero is aero?[/url]

So aero bars - helmet - bike - wheels

In order of descending usefulness, although their "normal" wheels were more aero than most folks'.

Completely get the desire to throw money at this but I'd suggest doing some more training, and more importantly, races. - Race yourself fitter can definitely work.

Position is key and whilst TT bars and aero frames DO make a big difference, I'd focus on tweaking your current set up before spending pennies.

After TT bars, pointy hats are probably the cheapest way to knock time off

Oh and get thee over to the [url= http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php? ]TT forum[/url] for more on the subject

For mph per £ ignore what type of shoes you have but make sure you have overshoes. Those and pointy hat are best value.

On a related note, do all TT bikes creak? I got overtaken by a guy on a Shiv last night, he was flying but by gosh his bike was noisy, it sounded bloody horrible

Position is the biggest difference to TT times

Specific fitness is the the biggest difference to TT times.

so I'd put in a few weeks of specific threshold training, 3 or 4 days a week, an hour a session, see what your times are like at the end of the season, then if you're still hooked look at buying a cheap second hand TT bike over the winter. there are some real bargains to be had, as the OCD Triathletes offload their year old kit for peanuts.

after that, its position, look at getting a flat back and try to move forward on the bike a bit, aero bars will obviously let you achieve that, then think about helmet, wheels, skinsuit etc.

I'm still on a road bike with aero bars. best time this year is 22.34 for a 10, 57.13 for a 25. taking the plunge this winter for a full on TT bike. It's addictive. also, a bit of weight loss with the training increases your speed more than anything else. I started the year at 13.75Stone, now I'm 11.75, and you can fit a skinsuit 🙂

(tests show that bare handed is a significant improvement)

When you say "significant"

What sort difference are you actually talking about ?

"Significant" to an Olympian, means "insignificant" to pretty much everybody else

Have you shaved your forearms....

Cyclist Mag this month reckons a mini mohican down the back of the limb will be best for aero gains!!

The MIT cycling team did some wind tunnel testing that suggested taking your mitts off gave the same advantage as an aero front wheel. Have a Google, article should still be out there somewhere.
Other people have already pointed out the most effective ways of getting faster, and they don't have to be costly. There are lots of people on expensive bikes with dreadful positions, sitting up in the wind like a sack of tatties.
I would like to put in a word for the humble safety pin. Make sure your number is pinned around the edges, not just attached at the corners and blowing out like a parachute on your back.

Was in a similar position a year ago. Did a few TTs on the road bike. Then got a TT bike and didn't go much faster initially. You'll probably find you can either have an aero position or powerful position but not both (I was down close to 20% on power.) You need to do a lot of specific work to adapt to be both powerful and aero (e.g. do all turbo work on the TT bike, which at first is very hard and demoralising.) You'll probably find your road bike position benefits along the way too. +1 for the Hutchinson book.

As far as times go, I think I did my first 3 TTs on the road bike, long 24s. Did about 4 on the TT bike and got down to short 22 (rubbish position and not much TT specific work - improvements I reckon were more about getting use to doing TTs and pacing than the bike, given how little power I was able to generate I think I'd have not been much slower on the road bike.) Not raced this year due to new baby coinciding with start of the season but reckon having done a lot more TT specific work and a much better position over the winter that when I race again I should be able to creep into the 20s on a good 10 course. As warton says, it really is specific fitness that counts.

For bike, I just picked up a cheap Planet X Stealth frame. An areojacket cover for my rear wheel. Some TT bars and saddle. Most of the rest came from my parts bin. Probably cost me about 500 quid. Though double that for helmet, skin suit, shoe covers, etc.

bjj.andy.w - Member
What a coincidence this thread is. I was thinking exactly the same after doing a 10 mile TT this morning. Obviously it wasn't an official TT (it was 5am this morning on the way to work) but a strava segment that someone has made up after doing the official meeting on a midweek evening. My bike was a bog standard sensa romagna, mtb pedals and shoes but unlike the op dressed in Lycra. Managed a time of 24:32 so although really happy with that I was wondering like the OP how faster I could of done.

Njee's article is quite an eye opener. Just shows how close to "competitive" you can get with just tri-bars!

I plan to TT next year - I've lost the hunger for racing, I feel like every race is just one closer to the inevitable BIG CRASH!

I've been pricing up the latest Dengfu carbon frame with 86mm carbon rims. Looks like I'll be able to build one up and cancel out the cost by selling some racing bikes/kit...

[img] [/img]

The other things with TTs is that although drafting isn't allowed if your lucky you can have a constant stream of lorries overtaking you on a dual carriageway which significantly ups your speed.

I do wonder about this sort of thing when people start quoting their times for 10s and 25s. It seems meaningless unless taken in the context of the course and conditions. There are some very fast courses out there that almost seem like cheating (e.g. a big downhill at the start and then finish just short of the climb back up.)

cheap stuff -

training (free)
aero bars + back-to-front seatpost
lycra top & shorts (or a skinsuit I guess)
teardrop hat
smooth shoes and/or shoe covers

badass wheels and s****y bike are a bit further down the cost/speed list IIRC

I was pretty happy to score a 27min with just aero bars, turning the seatpost round & wearing some lycra. Bit fitter then, natch.