[Closed] Roadie Content: TT's and having "all the gear"

I do wonder about this sort of thing when people start quoting their times for 10s and 25s.

The most reliable figures tend to come from "out-and-back" courses where the wind advantage is cancelled out. Alex Dowsett recently averaged 34.6153mph (!!!!) on an "out-and-back" course to smash the 10 mile record.

I mean seriously, lets stop to think about that for minute... 34.6mph for 10 frickin miles??? ON THE FLAT????? Unbe-frickin-lievable!

I mean seriously, lets stop to think about that for minute... 34.6mph for 10 frickin miles??? ON THE FLAT????? Unbe-frickin-lievable!

Yup, pedal hard downhill, glance down and see 35mph, then imagine being able to do that for 10 miles on the flat. Is bloody impressive.

- Train (intervals and more specific work than just riding)
- Tribars set low - eg reduce drag from your body - though for this to work, you'll need to work on flexibility/core strength and just getting used to the position. Some stems will allow for a much lower front end than you probably have right now.
- shoes will make sweet fa difference by the sounds of your current ones. Shoe covers are cheap so probably worthwhile (and you'll look pro 🙂 )
- tight kit - creases, etc cause a lot of drag. Long sleeved is a good way to avoid shaving arms 🙂
- Aero helmet - maybe but you'll note that a lot of them now are less aero looking as they've found that most people can't hold the right position permanently and drop their head lots which means a big pointy air brake sticking up in the air. You can get some benefit just by taping over the vents on your normal helmet (but it'll be hot!)
- Read up on aero - lots of good links already provided. Lots of people blindly spend money on things that look aero but either aren't or offer very little real benefit.
- to that point, you can sometimes get cheap, old disc wheels on ebay that'll only take a screw on cassette or other similarly outdated kit but most TTs don't need lots of gear range so that may well be fine.

- Have fun. Don't turn into a miserable tester!

Other cheap stuff... get someone to take some photos of you riding your bike. Seeing some photos of me on the first few club TTs, well there were some pretty obvious gains to be made 😳 For example, just hunching shoulders, dropping chest and getting my head inline with my shoulders. Makes quite a difference on the road or TT bike and costs nothing.

- Have fun. Don't turn into a miserable tester!

This is inevitable once all the easy early gains are achieved 🙂

- Have fun. Don't turn into a miserable tester!

is there any other sort?

I have met one or two that weren't. They mtb as well though 😉

New course for our club 10TT last night,there was not a miserable tester in sight.
Beautiful evening and they were buzzing about riding a new course .
Most were flying and got some really good results.

OP
You are doing great for a beginner ,just enjoy it .
The tough time comes when you reach a plateau and it's seconds rather than minutes that you are chipping away. 🙂

The tough time comes when you reach a plateau and it's seconds rather than minutes that you are chipping away.

Reallly tough time comes when you see your times regressing. That does make for a miserable tester.

footflaps

- Have fun. Don't turn into a miserable tester!

is there any other sort?

How very dare you 😛

Mind you, I'm helping out on the National 24 hour TT this weekend and there WILL be some tired, miserable and emotional peeps on that.

Whilst on the subject, whilst Dowsett's bonker's 10 time is [i]seriously[/i] impressive, Wilko's 24 hour record is just mental: - 541.214 miles 😯

Reallly tough time comes when you see your times regressing. That does make for a miserable tester.

That's just getting older 😉

Wot nemesis said ^

Also, if you get a race number, tape the edges so it doesn't act like a sail.
An odd one, but if you take a bottle, put the cage on the seat tube, not the down tube - it deflects air round the rear wheel apparently. Saying that, you shouldn't have time for a drink on a 10.

After a few goes, you will probably get a better idea of pacing. Again, I'm not sure there's time for that on a 10, just empty the tanks and hope the clock is kind to you.

I really like the combination of thinking about being faster and going out and doing it. As others have said there's some impressive times there, and they are moving in the right direction. Just enjoy yourself!

Whilst on the subject, whilst Dowsett's bonker's 10 time is seriously impressive, Wilko's 24 hour record is just mental: - 541.214 miles

Yep. A friend of mine won the 24 a few years ago and did over 500 miles. When I saw that in his email, I thought it was a typo - in my head without actually doing any maths, I was thinking 300 or so miles sounded like a good number of miles to do in a day. On realising that 500+ was actually what he did, I think I had to sit down for a while, tired just thinking about it...

Again, I'm not sure there's time for that on a 10

There's tonnes of time for that - coming from a sport where an 8 minute race was long, a 10 has plenty of scope for pacing. I'd suggest aiming fractionally below what you think you can average for the overall distance for the first half and then up the pace at half way - that way you're carrying a bit less lactic for longer and it's much more positive mentally if you get to half way and can take the pace up rather than struggling to turn the gear and slowing down. Or if you've paced it wrong, at least you shouldn't completely blow up. Of course, that will depend a bit on the course, conditions, etc.

My MTB shoes are Carbon soles and SOOO stiff

Nothing like as stiff as road shoes though.

I'm doing a TT next weekend, on a shoestring. So:

- clip-on bars, check
- low front end, check
- not too low so I can't get power down - check
- standard chainset - check
- no gloves - check
- no bottle - check
- arm warmers - check
- presumably thin tights too - check
- socks over my road shoes...? Or shoud I buy some real covers?

Thinking it's not worth spending a penny on it tbh.

I mean seriously, lets stop to think about that for minute... 34.6mph for 10 frickin miles??? ON THE FLAT????? Unbe-frickin-lievable!

I average 25 on "my" 10 course (out and back with hills & 3 traffic islands), so can't imagine going a full 10 mph faster for the distance ! Bonkers and seriously impressive.

OCD Triathletes offload their year old kit for peanuts.

I'm still on a road bike with aero bars. best time this year is 22.34 for a 10, 57.13 for a 25.

Aero Helmet is on its way in the post.

I think tomorrow night 10 will be in tighter fitting clothing, revised "more aero / tidy cable routings" and a lower stem height by 10mm.

@nemesis

Quite a few of the fast boys can do 300 miles in 12 hours!

Back in 2011 we reckoned that it was going to take some doing to get over 480+ miles on the roller coaster tour of Sussex that was the course.

The fact that Andy smashed his previous record was unbelievable. - John Warnock was second with an fantastic 517 but no one remembers that.

Funnily enough, I did a 10 mile TT this morning. Dropped 3 minutes compared to my time last week 8) I'm not significantly fitter, so it must be down to a change of position.

Last week was on standard roadie drops, this week on a proper aerobar setup. Frame, wheels, helmet, etc all unchanged!

socks over my road shoes...? Or should I buy some real covers?

I was wondering that too...

Thing is, unless your course is hilly or technical, your bike probably isn't fundamentally any slower in a TT than a more expensive road bike unless it's one of those semi-aero ones.

John Warnock was second with an fantastic 517 but no one remembers that.

I do. That's my mate 🙂 He's a machine.

I used to row with him...

Well a LOT of the guys where on Cervelo's or Giant Trinitys, and the guy that posted the fastest time was on a Boardman TT bike with HED wheels.

I was comparing your bike to other road bikes, not TT bikes.

nemesis

John Warnock was second with an fantastic 517 but no one remembers that.

I do. That's my mate He's a machine.

I used to row with him...

8) 8)

Here he is on the 2011 night circuit around 2.30AM IIRC - don't have access to my photos atm

[img] [/img]

He does have an advantage on 24s - terminators don't need sleep...

bjj.andy.w - Member
What a coincidence this thread is. I was thinking exactly the same after doing a 10 mile TT this morning. Obviously it wasn't an official TT (it was 5am this morning on the way to work) but a strava segment that someone has made up after doing the official meeting on a midweek evening. My bike was a bog standard sensa romagna, mtb pedals and shoes but unlike the op dressed in Lycra. Managed a time of 24:32 so although really happy with that I was wondering like the OP how faster I could of done.

How does that work on a commute? Or was it a one way TT?
The other things with TTs is that although drafting isn't allowed if your lucky you can have a constant stream of lorries overtaking you on a dual carriageway which significantly ups your speed.

SamB - Member

Funnily enough, I did a 10 mile TT this morning. Dropped 3 minutes compared to my time last week I'm not significantly fitter, so it must be down to a change of position.

No way is 3m down to position alone. There are loads of other factors.

Ok, it was more like 2m50. And I might have spent a little less time waiting at red lights. But I'm pretty sure my HRM was down, and the bike was identically set up except for bars (lower) and *more* bottle cage crap hanging off than last time.
I suppose it's possible I was having a "good day", but that aero article linked earlier reckoned 2m for drops --> aero bars, and another minute for a decent tuck on top of that...

And I might have spent a little less time waiting at red lights.

😆

/the older you are the better you were back then mode:

I went faster on a seventies tourer with the mudguards removed, a woolen jersey and unshaved legs (though there wasn't much hair on my legs at that age).

I shaved about 1m30 off over 2 years on a standard road bike.

Mostly fitness, some positional changes, some pacing, some luck with the weather.

Matters what course as well. My PB is 23:01 on my road bike with no mods but the course is relatively fast with the record being a short 19min. I'll never be the fastest so I just use it as a way to judge fitness improvements.

It is more about the rider than anything else. Get used to putting yourself through the TT effort a few more times and you'll get quicker.

[quote=kudos ]Alex Dowsett recently averaged 34.6153mph (!!!!) on an "out-and-back" course to smash the 10 mile record.
I mean seriously, lets stop to think about that for minute... 34.6mph for 10 frickin miles??? ON THE FLAT????? Unbe-frickin-lievable!

CB did a tad over 35mph for, um, a tad over 35 miles ON THE FLAT

Cheers all.

I've just re-jiggled the set up on the bike.

* lowered the bars - as low as it'd go
* saddle 5mm higher, moved forward on the rails, & tilted down slightly
* cables re-routed to be a bit more "aero" - a cleaner cockpit you may say.
* removed one bottle cage
* cleaned and polished it all.
* taped over all of the vents - bar one, to be a bit more aero 😕
* tighter clothing sorted & roadie gloves.

Lets see how tomorrow night goes, I'll report back should anyone be interested. Lol

CB did a tad over 35mph for, um, a tad over 35 miles ON THE FLAT

Anyone can do 35 on a track 😉

You may find [url= http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?act=idx ]this[/url] useful..

You may find this useful..

Could spend days mining that forum. Also the [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Time-Trialling-Fly-Through-Pain-Barrier-ebook/dp/B009YL5JVG/ ]Andy Topham [/url]book is a good place to start. [url= http://www.amazon.co.uk/Faster-Obsession-Science-Fastest-Cyclists-ebook/dp/B00IUMCCUG ]Faster[/url] is good too, much less prescriptive but loads of stuff to think about.

Follow Michael Hutchinson on Twitter - he's actually quite funny in a dry sort of way and he'll give out plenty of tips commenting on number positioning, etc of the pros 🙂

Bear in mind that lower isn't always better/faster - a lot of people rate the "praying mantis" position, so much so the UCI outlawed it.

[img] [/img]

Wiggins has his extensions high too - it's all about reducing frontal area, low isn't necessarily good, particularly, as said, most people can't get the power down.

[quote=njee20 ]Bear in mind that lower isn't always better/faster - a lot of people rate the "praying mantis" position, so much so the UCI outlawed it.

That's related to hand position, not shoulder height, and research I've seen suggests it takes a lot of attention to detail to actually be more aero with a high hand position.

Wiggins has his extensions high too

Only relative to his base bar - there's actually a huge amount of saddle to tri-bar drop, and he clearly does get very low. Within practical limits your frontal area is always going to be less the lower you are.

[img] [/img]

OCD Triathletes offload their year old kit for peanuts.
where do I find this cheep stuff please.

eBay, if you're patient, and prepared to travel to pick up bargains do come up, around november. My mate got a ultegra P3 for under a grand, it's spotless.

re. that picture of Wiggins, no one has a more sorted position IMO, flawless.

Within practical limits your frontal area is always going to be less the lower you are.

I was reading the Topham book and he was saying that if you get too low you start exposing your back, which will be less aero. Not really a worry for most though as you probably won't be able to make good power in such a low position anyway!

Wiggins just always looks so relaxed in that ^^^ position.

re. that picture of Wiggins, no one has a more sorted position IMO, flawless.

Wiggo has quite unusual proportions though, so not easy to replicate for most 'average' riders. He also rides much smaller frames than most 6'3" blokes - he likes a shorter TT due to a short torso and long limbs.

Cancellara's position is probably more attainable for most...

[img] [/img]

Was interesting to read an article in cycling weekly when some pro's were asked about [url= http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/fitness/the-10-toughest-cycling-workouts-35132 ]their toughest workout[/url]. Cancellara's response was...

I sometimes do 150 kilometre rides on my time trial bike.
It hurts but they are the only way to hit the support muscles you use when riding in a time trial position.
It really strengthens them.

I can imagine that is an awful lot harder than it sounds. That's the weekend's training ride sorted then 😉

My mate looks incredibly similar to Wiggins both off the bike whilst dressed in a skin suit, and when riding a TT bike. He also rides like him - very good time triallist with high consistent power, no burst whatsoever.

However he can also swim and run pretty well too 🙂

He should try Triathlon. It might suit him 😉

I've also done 100 mile training rides on my TT bike - not all that uncomfortable when you get used to it - mind you I was training for races with bike legs that long (and have done a 100 mile TT)