I’ve objectively thought about who I would like to see in charge. It’s “not the Tories.” So that’s what I voted for.

Spot on, Cougar.

so I’m voting for least worst

We all are. It’s a sad situation.

Not true. I am voting for a leader and party that I believe in and feel they are putting forward what is required.
The sad situation is that the tories will win and continue to serve the rich/elite while **** everyone else over.

You possibly just haven’t been paying attention. Certainly no definite legal ruling, but all the noises from the EU are that they would welcome us back if we changed our minds. Why on earth wouldn’t they, when it’s quite clearly in their best interests and by far the best outcome for them? To refuse us permission to revoke our decision to leave would be perverse.

Ark building weather in North Cardiff today, might help Labour I think, Grannie wouldn’t want to catch a chill.

I can’t see how any decent person who understands the issues facing the underpriviliged, the disabled, the unemployed could vote Tory. Tories are not helping those who need it.

This.

I can’t see how any decent person who understands the issues facing the underpriviliged, the disabled, the unemployed could vote Tory. Tories are not helping those who need it.

This. Can’t get past this.

Traditionally bad weather has been bad for Labour as Labour voters didn’t have private transport – given the age demographics you mention I do wonder how much that is still true.

Seems poignant that 6Music just played “If you tolerate this, then your children will be next……”

Right I’m off to fight my way through the Mr Burns lookilike Tory voters and their red trouser wearing off spring to pointlessly vote for either for my Ninja Green candidate or the Labour one they parachuted in to make up the numbers.

With all due respect, I think you have.

Isn’t that code for ‘you’re an arse’? 🙂

If you’re right, why didn’t Corbyn base the election on ‘If I win, we will remain’? He’d have got my vote.

You possibly just haven’t been paying attention. Certainly no definite legal ruling, but all the noises from the EU are that they would welcome us back if we changed our minds.

and which party will you be voting for that will enable that ?

molgrips – Member
I can’t see how any decent person who understands the issues facing the underpriviliged, the disabled, the unemployed could vote Tory. Tories are not helping those who need it.

Again this. And it can’t help but make me feel differently about those who are so selfish.

We know the one that won’t. The one who wants to walk away with less than offered just to prove how food a negotiator she is. I’d expect Labour, lid dems and SNP to favour a reversal if the deals are bad.

People’s anti-Labour sentiment seems to be largely based around the notion that Corbyn might not be very good. And you know what, they could be right. (They could be wrong too of course.) But you know what? I’ll take “not very good” over “bloody awful” any day.

I would take that further – May has proven to me at least she’s not very good as she’s actually been in office. Corbyn has not demonstrated this yet, so we don’t even have the hindsight. So I will take could be “better” over currently “lousy.”

Same at home. You get into debt and to pay it off you have to alter your lifestyle with less disposable income. Its simple maths. Labour borrowed us in house with large equity, conservatories, audis on the drive etc, the Conservatives are criticised for the debt reduction plan.

The economy and the BOE’s part in the process bear no resemblance to personal finance.

I live within the “St Helens North” constituency. How I vote makes not a jot of difference as if you stick a red rosette on a baboon with a carrot up it’s arse the good people will vote for it. I’ve voted Green as the green spaces near me are being destroyed by the local council. I know that these are not local elections but if enough vote Green it may fire a shot across the bows ahead of the next locals.

Its simple maths. Labour borrowed us in house with large equity, conservatories, audis on the drive etc, the Conservatives are criticised for the debt reduction plan.

So many issues…

1) The Tories have borrowed more than Labour in not just this parliament but many. Last time we had a net surplus current account was under Gordon Brown.

2) Reducing the deficit by cutting public expenditure (as opposed to say raising taxation), shrinks the economy, which shrinks tax receipts, which increases the deficit. It’s financially illiterate but true to Tory dogma, which is ‘the poor must be punished for being poor’.

We know the one that won’t. The one who wants to walk away with less than offered just to prove how food a negotiator she is. I’d expect Labour, lid dems and SNP to favour a reversal if the deals are bad.

Labour won’t as Corbyn is a brexiter and by the time we are in negotiation for a deal it will be too late to come back, and if we do come back it will be at much worse terms than before, so ever-closer-political-union and the Euro will be on the cards.

May’s threat to turn us into a tax-haven is pretty much the only negotiating stance that is going to get us anywhere.

I agree with this guys view of the likelihood of success trying to negotiate with the EU for a deal :

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/28/yanis-varoufakis-brexit-advice-theresa-may-avoid-negotiating/

And Junckers himself rubber-stamped the idea of a tax haven :

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/jan/01/jean-claude-juncker-blocked-eu-curbs-on-tax-avoidance-cables-show

I know that these are not local elections but if enough vote Green it may fire a shot across the bows ahead of the next locals.

And with similar reasoning I voted ‘leave’ in the referendum. Look what happened. If everyone who thought like me had voted on the issue and not tried to be clever how much closer would the result have been?

You don’t know St. Helens…

No I don’t. I’m in Dorset South. Similar situation I suspect. No change.
Entertained by the fact the one of the newspapers I work on carries an ad today for the local Labour candidate.
In Newbury. 😆

That’s money well spent.

I can’t see how any decent person who understands the issues facing the underpriviliged, the disabled, the unemployed could vote Tory. Tories are not helping those who need it.

another +1

Not for this lot… 🙂

Labour won’t as Corbyn is a brexiter

#jambafacts.

Real answer: Corbyn voted Remain.

I already have – if you’d read the whole thread you’d know who I’d voted for (an easy choice as it met pretty much every criteria I had), but it should in any case be obvious given that…

That quite frankly is bollocks – the EU will welcome us back right up to 29th March 2019, and I can’t see any reason at all why they wouldn’t simply let us revoke A50 as that would be far, far simpler than negotiating any new terms.

May’s threat to turn us into a tax-haven is pretty much the only negotiating stance that is going to get us anywhere.

If you assume that threats and bluster is the right way to go about it – which is how the Maybot seems to want to frame it.

Real answer: Corbyn voted Remain.

And he jumped on support for Brexit as soon as he could – look at his previous statements – the only reason he pretended to be a remainer was because of political pressure – that is why he was so quiet over the whole thing and got so much flack afterwards for not showing any leadership.

That quite frankly is bollocks

In your opinion – mine is different.

If you assume that threats and bluster is the right way to go about it

well going by the Greek experience it appears that would be a very good starting point.

And he jumped on support for Brexit as soon as he could – look at his previous statements – the only reason he pretended to be a remainer was because of political pressure – that is why he was so quiet over the whole thing and got so much flack afterwards for not showing any leadership.

You said he is a Brexiter. He voted Remain. You were not telling the truth.

And as for people who went a bit quiet, I give you:

Last time we had a net surplus current account was under Gordon Brown.

Are sure about that as I stand to be corrected that there has been surplus i.e. no debt since William III.
There was a brief period between 1998 and 2001 that tax receipts were in surplus of expenditure, mainly due to the measures taken by the previous Tory government and a tax raid on pensions (which I think was another Tory idea but very unpopular so not acted on). After 2001 the spending spree started by 2008 there was a £76bn deficit, then we had the crash (the bubble did burst) and by 2009 it had leaped to £154bn. Hardly the best track record.
For those about to jump in and say the crash wasn’t foreseeable this was at a time when GDP was decreasing, trade deficit increasing and household debt to GDP doubled. All statistics were available but not acted on as it didn’t suit him.

Hasn’t May already had meetings with the likes of Junckers, nothing was agreed apart from the fact that she annoyed the hell out of him and he said “i leave 10 Downing St, 10x more sceptical than i arrived”

So she isn’t doing the best of jobs so far?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/theresa-may-jean-claude-juncker-angela-merkel-meeting-brexit-negotiations-speech-eu-summit-a7711206.html

Plus at the end of the day it was the Conservatives that led us to the EU referendum, as soon as the vote didn’t go how they would of liked, Cameron ran away, BoJo was giving mumbling speeches just 6 weeks before about how leaving the EU would be disastrous only to do a huge U-Turn when he realised he could gain personally form it.

Then it was so clear that having led us to the Brexit vote, they had no contingency plan whatsoever to Leave, who takes a country to one of the votes of a lifetime, without having any back-up plan at all? It then just devolved into a points-scoring exercise and one of personal gain, when what the country wanted was answers as to where we go from there? I can’t forgive them for that

Mine is at least supported by all available evidence.

You appear to immediately contradict yourself there, but just to clarify, surplus relates to deficit, not debt. You can (and we did) have a surplus but still have debt.

A lady and chap in the street just now, lady says “have you voted?” He says “nah waste of time” he asked her, she says “I don’t know who to vote for” voter apathy.

A lady and chap in the street just now, lady says “have you voted?” He says “nah waste of time” he asked her, she says “I don’t know who to vote for” voter apathy.

My hope is that whatever happens today that it will of at least woken up a section of the country that wouldn’t normally vote and got some young people caring about their future and wanting to be part of it.

You appear to immediately contradict yourself there, but just to clarify, surplus relates to deficit, not debt. You can (and we did) have a surplus but still have debt.

Not quite, as Footflaps referred to net surplus current account, hence the response in the first sentence that the country has been in debt since William III.
The second response was to a net surplus in income receipts (which is what you’re referring to) over expenditure of which less years were spent in surplus than deficit.
No contradiction’s just two statements to different aspects of debt and tax receipts/expenditure.

Our Tory candidate is claiming he campaigned for Leave. There isn’t a single referendum post on his Facebook page, until the local result was known.

This guy: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/may/31/controversial-blogposts-tory-party-candidate-absolutely-shocking

Nope – current account still relates to deficit, not debt.

You appear to immediately contradict yourself there, but just to clarify, surplus relates to deficit, not debt. You can (and we did) have a surplus but still have debt.

Aracer is correct.

Tories have only had two surpluses since 1979. And I think have racked up double the debt over 70 years. (Although even when you adjust for modern money and more Conservative governments – it’s actually still more than Labour.)

Tories have only had two surpluses since 1979. And I think have racked up double the debt over 70 years.

Which included selling off housing stocks, water, electric, BT, railways and whatever else was in there. It’s a great trick

Isn’t that code for ‘you’re an arse’?

Well, all due respect could be “none whatsoever,” but that’s not what I meant here. This time, anyway. (-:

If you’re right, why didn’t Corbyn base the election on ‘If I win, we will remain’? He’d have got my vote.

Dunno TBH. To my mind that’s what he should have done (they’re supposed to be “the opposition” after all). Maybe he’s waiting for the tide to turn more heavily against leaving than it already has?

And he jumped on support for Brexit as soon as he could – look at his previous statements – the only reason he pretended to be a remainer was because of political pressure – that is why he was so quiet over the whole thing and got so much flack afterwards for not showing any leadership.

So first he wasn’t supporting it and now he is, so the assumption is that he was pretending before. Why not assume he’s “pretending” now? In isolation they’re both equally valid conclusions.

As for being “quiet,” I don’t think he was particularly, just that most of the mainstream media were too busy giving airtime to arsetrumpets like Farage and Nuttall to listen.