Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 45 total)
  • Putting a motorcycle engine in a car……anyone done it?
  • ken_shields
    Free Member

    I've got a Ford Puma (1.7) with a very dead engine. I know I could put another Puma engine in it but fancy having a go at putting a bike engine in it. It will be used as a track day car so road legal is not an issue.

    Was thinking of using a Kawasaki ZXR1400 (187bhp and lots of torque).

    Any suggestions on the best firms to get anything fabricated that I will need?

    Thanks in advance for any assistance

    Ken

    hora
    Free Member

    I reckon another Ford engine- didnt Puma have the Fiesta 1.4 as a choice? Why not keep alookout for salvage sales for a rear ended/rolled Puma or Fiesta?

    29erKeith
    Free Member

    http://www.zcars.org.uk/index.htm do some Motorbike conversions

    If you do it you'll want to make the Puma a light as possible though
    most that I've seen have been made rear wheel drive too
    e.g. Mini's (Classic), Smarts cars For2's and Coupes

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    Android
    Free Member

    Being front wheel drive, I would have thought it will be a bit tricky mating the bike engine to the gearbox / drive system. Most bike engined cars are rear wheel drive so you can use a standard type rear axle.

    cp
    Full Member

    Penguinious – thats boring and no fun!

    lots of people have – and there's certainly a lot of kit cars running round with motorbike engines in.

    try looking around kit car forums for advice. one thing you'll need to consider which will be the tricky part is connecting the output of the engine to driveshafts and sorting gearing out – as the bike engine screams round alot quicker than your old 1.7 ford engine 🙂

    ken_shields
    Free Member

    If i'm going to put a ford engine back in I'll get another 1.7 (why would I put an asthmatic 1.4 in it)

    The whole point is in using a bike engine is high power, high revs and light weight

    nickc
    Full Member

    Mate did a westy a few years back when folk started doing this stuff. It was OK, revved it's nuts off, but lack of low end power (torque) made low speed stuff a bit of a pain (probably not a real issue for a track car), but TBH gearbox was a nightmare as it just wasn't designed with a car's weight in mind, and no reverse was a pain.

    Fun though

    richtea
    Free Member

    Something to bear in mind is the usual suspects for bike engines (minis, westfields, etc) are significantly lighter than a Puma, and work well because of this. Bike drive trains aren't designed with a tonne or more of metal to lug around in mind.

    mastiles_fanylion
    Free Member

    didnt Puma have the Fiesta 1.4 as a choice?

    There were 1.4, 1.6 and 1.7 Pumas. The only engine for an enthusiast is the 1.7 – designed in conjunction with Kawazaki I believe. Or was it Yamaha?

    hora
    Free Member

    Yamaha, needed strict TLC with the right oil and change intervals. So theres a change the replacement engine might not have been.

    In regards to the weight issue. Yes its too heavy for a motorbike engine 🙁

    Me practical but………would a 2.0 Ford lump fit?

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    Yep…the 1.7 was developed with Yamaha.

    I don't remember there being a 1.6 available though.
    Nearly bought a Puma. But then decided not to.
    Then nearly bought a Racing Puma but decided I wouldn't be able to afford the fuel. If I had been able to afford a 2nd car, or didn't do so many miles…..I would have had one.

    Could you not get a Racing Puma engine? Should be easier to drop in. Not many made though so perhaps not many re-conditioned ones around? I think they are 155bhp.
    I did find a place on the internet a while back that would stick the Racing Puma engine into Fiestas.

    snaps
    Free Member

    Ford engine with a Yam VVT head if I remember right.
    Just put a TDCi engine in it & flog it to Molgrips 😉
    http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/i-want-a-diesel-sportscar

    pantsonfire
    Free Member

    If you could get it to fit (a big if) you would probably have clutch problems just look at the size of the Kwak clutch compared to the Ford clutch. Even when bikes are fitted with sidecars they struggle with the clutch and usually need the gearing dropped.

    mastiles_fanylion
    Free Member

    There WAS a 1.6 Puma…
    HERE…

    swamp_boy
    Full Member

    snaps
    Free Member

    Anybody heard of Mike Endean?
    He's pretty good with Puma engines!

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    There's a mental V8 motorbike engine based on two kawasaki 1300cc cylinder blocks and a custom crankcase and crank.

    300bhp and 14000rpm 🙂

    Think it was made for some land speed record attempt, so probably hard to get a hold of 🙁

    Del
    Full Member

    or take the tyger (sp?) approach and fit TWO bike engines…..
    🙂

    I_Ache
    Free Member

    Was the 1.6 not in the racing Puma because it was supposed to be as much like the super 1600 rally cars as possible. Thats what I always thought.

    How about a 2.0 Mondeo engine. OK you would need the ecu and stuff but it would be a lot easier than a bike engine and much much cheaper. You could buy a Mondy for a couple of hundred and strip it then scrap it. If you leave the standard gearbox in there it will accelerate like sh1t off a shovel.

    hora
    Free Member

    Ken, is the engine not stripable/rebuildable? What is wrong with it? Seized?

    I'm liking the Mondeo idea. Bet if you went on a Ford enthusiasts forum you'd find a wealth of people who have done similar things.

    I_Ache
    Free Member
    mastiles_fanylion
    Free Member

    Was the 1.6 not in the racing Puma because it was supposed to be as much like the super 1600 rally cars as possible. Thats what I always thought.

    I don't think so – I am sure it was just a different variant. COuld be wrong, but the example I showed above wasn't a Racing.

    I_Ache
    Free Member

    I'm liking the Mondeo idea. Bet if you went on a Ford enthusiasts forum you'd find a wealth of people who have done similar things.

    I nearly did it with my xr3i when I blew the engine on that I also considered getting a Sierra XR4X4 and having a XR3X4 but I was skint so did neither. One day I would love to do it. I was going to totally pull the mondy apart and have all the (much more reliable) electrics and power steering and really update the escort but it wasnt to be.

    whytetrash
    Full Member

    Note of caution..since people started using Busa engines etc in Westies etc these bikes have become an even more nickable commodity…please source your engine responsibly ….the mass outpouring of rage/sympathy bike thefts on here generates indicates how attached people get to their bikes…lets not encourage the scummers to nick more!…plenty of totalled bikes around if you look.

    moe_szyslak
    Free Member

    Driven a few motorcylce engined racing cars over the years. One of which was horrifyingly fast, talked sub F3 laptimes.

    But then most single-seaters are 350-500kgs without driver. It the puma too porky?

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    Oh yeah….there was a 1.6 Puma, but it wasn't introduced until later in it's life – Oct 2000 according to Parkers.
    I test drove one in 2000 and the bloke said there was only a 1.4 & a 1.7 available. Must have been before the 1.6 came out.

    Racing Puma was definitely the 1.7 tuned by Tickford racing I think.

    Daffy
    Full Member

    Puma was released with a 1.4 and a 1.7. Then came the 1.7 Racing Puma (lovely) then in about 2000 the puma became available with a 1.6 Fiesta engine only.

    Speshpaul
    Full Member

    I'd go for a Duratec engine, a 2l mondeo lump on throttle boddies will see 200bhp on a standard engine. Or hunt out a imported Mazda or ford Duratec from the states at 2.4L 200+Bhp and lots of bottom end.

    The ford has its advantages in that a lot of componants will just drop in. The Fiesta would take a 1.8/2.0 zetec engine (RS 1800), the Puma is a rebodied Fiesta and a Duratec uses the same Block as a Zetec.

    How about searching a a trashed Focus ST170, again the same block, 170 BHP for starters, and probably 95% straight swop.
    Turbo is the next option, A RS turbo lump would go in, and would a Zetec ?CVH hybred. Thats quite a common conversion.
    If you fancy a real challenge how about a Audi 1.8 Turbo. Would be hard work to make it work, but theres a few 225bhp FSI TT engines kicking about.

    hora
    Free Member

    Busa engines etc in Westies

    JEESUS!

    Hairychested
    Free Member

    With a 350cc V-twin engine:

    Gee-Jay
    Free Member

    I have driven a couple. A ZZR engined westie & a blade engine caterham. Lots of fun, great with the sequential box & brilliant front ends due to lack of weight.

    Not sure how they would work in a puma though, the original cars I drove would have been 500/550kgs with their original engines in so nearer 425/450 with the bike engines.

    Definately good for a laugh & totally manic.

    ken_shields
    Free Member

    Puma is 980kg out of the box and makes 123bhp and 115ftlb's of torque

    with removal of the interior, replace most of the glass for perspex, lighter wheels and removing the Ford engine and gearbox I reckon you could knock 200kg off it

    The Kwak engine makes 187bhp (197bhp with ram air effect) and 113ftlb's so should work ok. Would fit a heavy duty clutch.

    Quaife do a transfer gearbox with reverse that fits with Ford drive shafts so it's mainly a case of lining it all up and mounting the engine….sounds easy

    simon_g
    Full Member

    But still heavy and FWD. And for the spend and effort, you could have build something seven-like which would blow it's socks off on track.

    Dan67
    Free Member

    rember most bike engines are air cooled not water cooled so there will be alot of modification to sort it out

    dave_aber
    Free Member

    Don't know about bike engines in cars, but I put lawnmower engine in a raleigh chopper years ago.

    Lucky to be still alive really!

    GTDave
    Free Member

    Not much torque on that kwak engine though, once you factor in drivetrain losses etc.
    Much better to faff about with a cossie YB lump, or something from a Mondie ST24 etc.

    TandemJeremy
    Free Member

    Dan67 – Member

    rember most bike engines are air cooled not water cooled so there will be alot of modification to sort it out

    welcome to the 1980s. Most modern motorcycle engines are watercooled – especially big 4s

    You will have many issues tho – with it being a front wheel drive car mating up the drivetrain will be hard. The motorcycle engine is unit construction – gears in the same unit as the crank – so its hard to use a car gearbox as you have to modify the crankcases in a major fashion ( the exception would be a K1100 bmw motor I think and some shaft drive twins)

    Then you have the gearing issue – motorcycle engines rev to 10 000 rpm plus and will be geared for 200 mph at the red line in top for something like that kwak – so you need to drop the gearing hugely.

    Peak torque while similar will be at much higher revs than the car – 7000 rpm needed to get rolling – think of the poor clutch!

    Then there is the physical size and shape – motorcycle engines such as you mention are DOHC with vertical intake manifolds – a bit hard to fit under the bonnet.

    The only layout that makes any kind of sense for this is the front engine / rear wheel drive and even then its a major engineering exercise although there is a smart with a gxsr motor in it out there somewhere

    CountZero
    Full Member

    Pumas started with a 1.4, and a 1.7 Zetec, developed by Yamaha. The 1.7 had Nicasil bore coatings, like Porche and Hiabusa engines, hence the care you need to take regarding oil type and changes. The FRP engine was exactly the same just tuned up from 129bhp to 155bhp. FRP's had a wider track, uprated suspension and handbuilt mods to the bodywork to cover the wider wheelbase. The 1.6 was brought in to replace the unpopular 1.4, 1.7's went the length of the production run of 64000 cars. Yamaha produced 100000 1.7 engines, and a few went into Fiesta Zetec S.
    Loved my Puma, but it was a thirsty little beast, especially with the roofbars for my Thule. 27/gallon, on average!

    FunkyDunc
    Free Member

    The Yamaha engine block was the same in the 1.25 (yes I know it wasn't in the Puma), 1.4 and 1.7

    Personally I can't see the point in putting a bike engine in one, as has been said above the engines and gearboxes are not designed to be used in heavy cars.

    timwillows
    Free Member

    Surely you want a Rocket 3 engine. No shortage of torque from a 2.3l motorcycle engine

Viewing 40 posts - 1 through 40 (of 45 total)

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