Plasterboard wall and hanging shelves question

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Plasterboard wall and hanging shelves question

35 posts & 14 voices | Started 2 years ago by leelovesbikestoo | Latest reply from ernie_lynch

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leelovesbikestoo - Member

I need some advice hanging some shelves on a plasterboard wall... The shelves are in the kitchen and will be holding around 30kg of kitchen guff like plates, pots/pans etc.

I've discovered that the plasterboard to which I need to fix the shelves is sitting about 20mm away from the masonry. I initially was going to use some molly 40kg rated expanding anchors but these are about 50mm long. The shorter ones are only rated at 10kg.

So what are my options for anchor bolts that can be installed in narrow spaces?

I've just been reading about springloaded toggle bolts, but worried that the toggle 'arms' won't have enough space between the plasterboard and masonry to expand fully when inserted...

Posted 2 years ago #
Gooner - Member

look at this;

http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/projects/fixingtoplasterboard.htm

Posted 2 years ago #
Taff - Member

If your blockwork is only 20mm behind the plasterboard then I would use the long wall plugs. I can't find quite the right ones but they look like this , They will cope with the weight but make sure you get over 50mm penetration. If you go with expanding bolts you hae to be careful witht the tension. If you have 7N blocks you and don't drill far anough in then you're more than likely going to ping the face of the block off instead.

Posted 2 years ago #
Taff - Member

He's got dot and dab by the sound of it so may not have enough space for self expanding plasterbaord fixings.

Posted 2 years ago #
grantway - Member

First what are the shelving brackets look like?
Or what type of shelving you putting up.
And how many brackets over the length of the shelf
you going to use.
Is it one or two platerboards thick on the wall

Posted 2 years ago #
saladdodger - Member

several options

Toggles are only as good as the security of the plasterboard glue or screws into the wall battens DO NOT RISK IT

Drill through the plaster board into the wall push a Fischer (better than rawlplugs) plugthrough the plasterboard and into the brickwork

or

cut the plasterboard and fit battens to the wall then attach onto the batttens

Have a look at the Fischer Fixings website

http://www.fischer.co.uk/desktopdefault.aspx/tabid-1777/

Posted 2 years ago #
project - Member

Use frame fixings, theyre got quite long sleeves and long screws,apply some silicone sealant in the holes and theyll hold like crabs on a prostitute.

Posted 2 years ago #
leelovesbikestoo - Member

Ok, so you wouldn't try to secure to the plasterboard alone, but penetrate right into the masonry? Wouldn't tightening the shelf bracket against the plasterboard into the masonry distort the board?

(By plasterboard I mean dry stud wall)

The masonry is a dividing wall in a tenement, I wouldn't want to go through to next door!

Posted 2 years ago #
leelovesbikestoo - Member

First what are the shelving brackets look like?
http://www.ikea.com/gb/en/catalog/products/10136135

And how many brackets over the length of the shelf you going to use.
One each end (they cap the end of the shelf material

Is it one or two platerboards thick on the wall
One, 13mm thick

These are the mollies I was going to use

Project - these badboys?

Posted 2 years ago #
mikey-simmo - Member

It's almost worth removing the plasterboard where your shelf support will go and building a wooden frame behind them. You can't put much compressive force on plasterboard, it will eventually crush.
Perhaps a pile of washers on top of the frame fixing to bring the shelf bracket level with the surface then tighten massivly.

Posted 2 years ago #
leelovesbikestoo - Member

mikey, that's not going to happen - the wall's just been tiled and painted.

Posted 2 years ago #
Taff - Member

The second of the fixings.. don't use the expanding steel ones. They will go into the nasonary but won't expand where the plasteroard is. they're meant for this purpose so the create a neat fixing and don't damage the facework

Posted 2 years ago #
leelovesbikestoo - Member

Taff, do you think I can penetrate the masonry with the frame fixings, without supporting the bracket area behind the plasterboard? I'm worried that weight added to the shelf will distort the plasterboard...

Posted 2 years ago #
project - Member

Lee thats the ones, but make sure that the holes in the shelving are big enough to take the screw.

Also check there are no cables,or pipes,remember some water pipes are now plastic,so they dont show up,with a metal detector.

30kg of plates and pans,get a divorce,and you can live with one sausepan and a few paltes, i do.

Posted 2 years ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

The shelves are in the kitchen and will be holding around 30kg

30kg ?

I'm worried that weight added to the shelf will distort the plasterboard...

Brackets like this ?

Yep, I'd be worried too. I reckon your brackets will pull straight through the plasterboard (or push through under the 30kg weight)

Can't you put plates pots and pans in a base unit and leave the shelves for light items ?

Posted 2 years ago #
leelovesbikestoo - Member

haha ernie, well the brackets are rated at 30kg but yeah it might be a bit excessive!

Posted 2 years ago #
Sillyoldhector - Member

If the boards been dabbed correctly, there shouldnt be massive voids behind the board, so they shouldnt distort under the pressure of the bracket. You may even be lucky and hit a dab with both brackets.

If the PB is attached to the masonary by a 20mm batten, could you try and locate these and fix through them??

Posted 2 years ago #
project - Member

Why not use SPUR adjustable shelving that will give you more anchorage points.

Posted 2 years ago #
leelovesbikestoo - Member

hector, that would be ideal, but the shelf location is limited to the one place.

i think taff's solution of securing into the brickwork behind the pb is the best. i'll just make sure the plates are in the bottom cupboard ;o)

Posted 2 years ago #
leelovesbikestoo - Member

Taff, as long as I make sure there's that 50mm penetration into the masonry, is there anything in particular I should look for in the long frame fixings?

http://apps.fischer.de/poc/default.aspx?page=layer&sprache=EN&ekat=$EKAT-HK-EN&kat=$MART-HK-$MKAT-HK-$MPG-G2

Posted 2 years ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

4 inch 10s into brown plugs, and you'll never pull the feckers out.

Mind, you'll probably pull the brackets straight through the plasterboard

Posted 2 years ago #
grantway - Member

Firstly if its a divided wall between two properties the combined wall thicknesses will be about two bricks thick, around 9 inches.

Drill your holes out with a tile cutter followed by the masonary drill bit.
And I will use two brown raw plugs per hole and use what ernie_lynch says.
But nothing less than 110mm length as you have a 20mm void and losing
that much of the screw length.

Posted 2 years ago #
aP - Member

Isn't 9" single brick?

Posted 2 years ago #
grantway - Member

A supporting brick built wall or an old house is generally built two bricks thick.

Posted 2 years ago #
aP - Member

Strange, we call 4" half brick.

Posted 2 years ago #
spooky_b329 - Member

I had exactly the same issue...dot and dab plasterboard over brick with a small void. I'd put the plasterboard up the plan was always just to go straight through into the masonry.

I used the IKEA Grundtal shelves, got pots and pans hanging off one with lids slotted in the bars on top, other has utensils and camelbacs hanging off and recipe books on top.

I just used long beefy woodscrews, hand twisted a brown rawl plug on the tip of the screw, took a depth reference so I knew when the rawl plug was fully home, then hammered them in to my drilled holes to the correct depth. Then screwed them in. They were nice and tight, got no worries Make sure the hole is a smidge undersized, you don't want the rawl plug twisting. If you've tiled over the actual bit where the shelves are going, I'd be very careful when tightening up! I've even cracked a tile when tightening a socket cover.

Posted 2 years ago #
mugsys_m8 - Member

If it's tiled over then the tiles will take the moment/load of the barcket, reducing the risk of punching through the plasterboard?...
maybe.

Posted 2 years ago #
leelovesbikestoo - Member

cheers spooky, that's exactly my problem, but the plasterboard was already up so i didn't know what was behind it! it seems like every fitting we put into the walls gives us nasty surprises ;o)

personally i'd prefer the plain brick walls (and it would make things like this so much easier).

how long was the rawl plug you used - i'm imagining those 1" brown ones... but have my eye on the frame fitting plugs taff recommends above.

mugsys, the bracket area isn't tiled; it will be sitting straight on top of the plasterboard. the rest of the kitchen has been though, so i can't take it all off!

Posted 2 years ago #
phyncra - Member

you probwant to use some big rawl plugs rather than framne fixings. IIRC all frame fixings are hammer in whihc is fine if your securing a timber frame, but may well screw up your shelving brackets. Youve much more control with a screw. As peoplpe say if your wall is a bit rubbish use a mm smaller drill bit .

Posted 2 years ago #
spooky_b329 - Member

I'm pretty sure I just used the 1" brown ones. Obviously you will have to hunt around to find a screw head that fits nicely into your bracket...no point have a huge brass pozi head sitting proud of a bracket designed for a much smaller screw! Thats partly what is nice about the Ikea brackets, the countersink is nice and big.

Posted 2 years ago #
Pieface - Member

I have to hang a radiator off a dab & dobbed section. I guess I can mount regular rawlplugs into the PB adhesive as it seems hard as concrete?

Posted 2 years ago #
grantway - Member

Pieface you should get fixings with the radiator
just use the ones provided r buy longer fixings to componsate
for the gap.

Posted 2 years ago #
leelovesbikestoo - Member

dry lining plasterboard is a pain in the hoop, eh?

Posted 2 years ago #
Taff - Member

Mugsys_m8 - you sound like an engineer... careful Lee he might start telling you to put in steel columns next!

Posted 2 years ago #
ernie_lynch - Member

If it's tiled over then........

I wasn't paying attention - I didn't realise that it was a tiled wall. Yep, the tiles will stop the brackets pulling through. Although if the screws are done up nice and tight to take 30kg, it'll probably crack the tiles

I would keep the shelves for the salt and pepper pots, mustard etc. If you really want to place heavy items high up, then I would buy some wall units - not selves. IMHO

Posted 2 years ago #

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