Pavement cycling insanity « Singletrack Forum

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Pavement cycling insanity

107 posts & 51 voices | Started 3 months ago by chakaping | Latest reply from scu98rkr

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TandemJeremy - Member

hugor - Member

But its against the law TJ.
You've decided its safer for you to break the law for your own safety.
I ride on the pavement for my own safety when the road conditions are dangerous.
There's no difference.

there is a big difference. its about the heirachy - you are making the pavements a threatening and less pleasant place for pedestrians - doing to the peds what the cars do to you on the road. You can still ensure your safety by walking your bike. Yo uare comprimising the pedestrians safety for your own.

neal - why do you spend so much time trying to prove me wrong?
actually that wouldn't work either unless I waited thru a full cycle of the lights during which time I would be blocking a narrow pavement.

Posted 3 months ago #
miketually - Member

Really mike - where do they say that? Have the repealed the relevant parts of the road traffic act?

When the fixed penalty notices were brought in, they made it clear that they distinguished between cyclists choosing to ride sensibly on the pavement because they were avoiding a dangerous piece of road and those doing so recklessly. Relevant references here: http://www.bikehub.co.uk/featured-articles/cycling-and-the-law/

As far as I know, they have never made this differentiation for RLJers.

Posted 3 months ago #
coastkid - Member

GW
My tyres are that fat i can ride on both the road and pavement at the same time

Posted 3 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Thats suggesting they might not prosecute some people - its still illegal.
I get cauhgt RLJing then I will pay my fine happily.

Posted 3 months ago #
bigyinn - Member

TJ you are such a hypocrite.
You advocate RLJ'ing, but abhorr cycling on the pavement, but you then said
I used to have a similar sort of dilemma ( but 30 Mphroad) that I used - fortunately the pavement is now marked dual use but I did ride the pavement a few times before it was but sometimes I did use the road.
Assuming I've read that correctly that you did ride the pavement in the past sometimes, but now its dual use that ok (which it is).
You can't just be selective about which rules you choose to obey and then berate others for not obeying, even though they offer just as many credible reasons as to why they do what they do.

Posted 3 months ago #
bigyinn - Member

GW - Member
Couldn't really GAF what any of you think.

Yet you post on here to show what a huge man you are, whilst we bask in your aura.

Posted 3 months ago #
Woody - Member

Hard to say without knowing it but it does sound pretty dodgy. got a google earth link?

FFS
Rode to work the other day and it. Ever occurred to me NOT ride on the pavement or through a shopping precinct. Damn sight safer than dicing with muppets who are not looking where they are going and it was getting dark and I'd no lights!

Posted 3 months ago #
GW - Member

TJ — I've paid one fixed penalty fine for jumping a red while riding and vowed not to stop if ever caught again.

Posted 3 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Bigyinn- do you actually bother to read what I write? I do not advocate RLJing - id do it occasionally when its the safest way to proceed

that was an honest answer to a question - my original post said almost never

I have not berated anyone - merely questioned them asked them to justify it. Borelsbuis outied out situation that I accepted could be justified.

Posted 3 months ago #
GW - Member

Ironic name wee man?

Posted 3 months ago #
nealglover - Member

neal - why do you spend so much time trying to prove me wrong?

I dont, I just point it out when its obvious.

I spend very little time on it, when its this obvious, its easy.

thanks for asking.

Posted 3 months ago #
geetee1972 - Member

Why are all taking TJ so literally? He said 'almost' never a good reason to ride on pavement not 'never'. As for the ' it's ok if you're considerate to pedestrians' comment what about if there are kids about, or old people who are intimidated by an adulton a bike on a pavement. Riding a bike on a pavement where there are pedestrians is as selfish and inconsiderate to the pedestrians as a motorist using a mobile phone is to other road users.

Posted 3 months ago #
hugor - Member

To your credit TJ when you do go down, you usually go down swinging.
Your arguments here are a bit contradictory.
You came out very dogmatic stating that riding on pavements was completely wrong under any circumstances, but condone running lights in the same sentence.
You have a right to express your opinion but when you pass personal judgement people take offence.
Neil is not being personal here, he just finds your superiority complex and attitude a bit offensive. I think many others do too.
Even when I agree with your point of view TJ, I wanna take an opposing view just to put you back in your place.
Its just in the delivery mate.

Posted 3 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

You came out very dogmatic stating that riding on pavements was completely wrong under any circumstances,

No I did not. try actually reading what I wrote Almost never I wrote and I accepted boreslsubus situation could be justified

Posted 3 months ago #
hugor - Member

Only been cycling all over the uk for 40 years and never cycle on pavements.

those of you scared to ride on the road do some training FFS and gain some confidence.

you need to get some training then to understand how to ride safely on the road and gain the confidence to do so.
Cyclecraft book is a good starting point

Do you not see how your comments above imply that you have some sort of greater understanding?
Your implying that anybody who thinks cycling on their local roads is dangerous has some sort of confidence problem or skill deficiency.

It might actually be that their roads are unacceptably dangerous.
Every week around here is another story of some cyclist killed on the roads.
There was one a few hours ago.
We are all entitled to choose our risks.

Posted 3 months ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

Do you actually know how many cyclists are killed each year - check the stats you might be suprised. cycling is a very safe activity.

Every week around here is another story of some cyclist killed on the roads

is complete bullshine. edit - around a hundred cyclists year across the whole of the UK - and a good % of those in london. there is no way on earth its every week in your area

chose your risks by all means but try to be rational about it and look at real risk

Posted 3 months ago #
hugor - Member

chose your risks by all means but try to be rational about it and look at real risk

I drive past a cyclists grave every morning - the flowers are regularly replaced so he must be very missed.
Its in my street.
That street also has a cycle lane and a primary school.
Thats real and rational enough for me.

Posted 3 months ago #
SandyThePig - Member

Folk riding through the footpath diversion at Shandwick place in Edinburgh annoy me.

Guess I annoy you then. I've done that a few times.

Seriously, as long as you aren't bombing the pavements I don't think there is any problem. If you are going at near enough walking pace I'd be amazed if you got into any bother. I haven't.

Posted 3 months ago #
svender - Member

It's quite simple in my view. RLJ if you want to, especially if it's safer; and ride on the pavement if it's convenient, but don't intimidate pedestrians while you do it. Intimidation is basically riding above a walking pace on the pavement anywhere near a pedestrian (so you might as well get off and walk) and riding through a red light when someone is crossing or about to cross the road. Those pedestrians are probably drivers too so makes sense to be nice to them and show that you have respect for more vulnerable road users.

Posted 3 months ago #
elzorillo - Member

They were discussing this very subject on the BBC news this morning..

Someone was suggesting that the cyclists should use the pavement and not the roads.

There was only one subject that pretty much unanimously got peoples back up.. RLJing

TJ... looks like you should have spent some of them 40 years learning that your opinion is not the only opinion.

Posted 3 months ago #
aracer - Member

I drive past a cyclists grave every morning

You have a cemetery on your street?

Posted 3 months ago #
bigyinn - Member

GW - Member

Ironic name wee man?

No. 6'5" originally from Glasgow. You work it out.....

Posted 3 months ago #
hugor - Member

You have a cemetery on your street?

No there is a whole lot of flowers and rememberances on a fence near the roadside where a cyclist was killed, similar to what you see next to roads where fatal accidents have happened.

Posted 3 months ago #
miketually - Member

Thats suggesting they might not prosecute some people - its still illegal.
I get cauhgt RLJing then I will pay my fine happily.

I think I've just decided that you're a troll. I used to respect your stance on RLJing and helmets, and even agree with you occasionally. Now, I just think you're a deliberate wind-up merchant.

How many pedestrians are killed or seriously injured by bikes on pavements each year? How does this compare to the number of cyclists killed or seriously injured on the roads by vehicles?

Then tell me that riding on pavements is a danger to pedestrians and we should all be on the roads at all times.

Posted 3 months ago #
aracer - Member

No there is a whole lot of flowers and rememberances on a fence near the roadside where a cyclist was killed, similar to what you see next to roads where fatal accidents have happened.

Ah - not a grave then?

That's not real risk - that's anecdote. You could live on the safest street in the country, there could be only 1 cyclist killed on the roads every year, yet some drunken driver might have randomly managed to kill that cyclist on your street.

Posted 3 months ago #
joao3v16 - Member

RLJ if you want to, especially if it's safer; and ride on the pavement if it's convenient

Ohhhhhh, I seeeeee, I never realised the law was actually a list of optional extras.

So it's ok to pick and choose which ones apply?, based on what's convenient for me rather than what exists for the benefit of everybody?

I obviously need to learn to be more self-righteous, and that my personal precious little convenience justifies breaking any law I choose.

Posted 3 months ago #
juan - Member

I am wtill wiating for TJ to answer me

Posted 3 months ago #
miketually - Member

Some stats. They're lifted from a blog comment (http://adrianfitch.wordpress.com/2009/02/03/are-cyclists-a-bigger-threat-to-pedestrians-than-motor-vehicles/), but match what I've read in better sources:

Of the roughly 600 pedestrians a year killed by motor vehicles about 45 a year (7.5%) are hit and killed on the pavement or verge.

Of the average 2.2 pedestrians killed a year by bicycles about 0.25 (one every four years – 11.4%) were hit on the pavement or verge.

Posted 3 months ago #
miketually - Member

Ohhhhhh, I seeeeee, I never realised the law was actually a list of optional extras.

So it's ok to pick and choose which ones apply?, based on what's convenient for me rather than what exists for the benefit of everybody?

I obviously need to learn to be more self-righteous, and that my personal precious little convenience justifies breaking any law I choose.

People, whatever form of transport they're using, do this all the time. On my walk to work this morning, I saw cars nipping down the last bit of bus lane to bypass a queue; a van parked half on the road and half on the pavement over double yellow lines and in a bus lane; and numerous cars nipping through lights on amber (the new "still green") or "only just red" (the new amber). I also saw some cyclists on the pavement.

Which is the most dangerous behaviour?

Posted 3 months ago #
aracer - Member

Which is the most dangerous behaviour?

You not looking where you're going whilst walking.

Posted 3 months ago #
miketually - Member

You not looking where you're going whilst walking.

Posted 3 months ago #
evilclosetmonkey - Member

I cycle on the pavement depending on which route i go, after buses lorry's and cars all trying to kill me because they couldn't wait until i had passed the section of road with a bollard in the middle i decided eff this, the last straw was when a car hit my handle bars, all at the same bit of road.
At the end of the day who gives a monkeys.

Posted 3 months ago #
miketually - Member

Has TJ retreated from a thread? Blimey!

Posted 3 months ago #
Woody - Member

What chance does the 'general public' have on a concensus in this matter when a cycling forum can't agree on the rights and wrongs!

All motorists are moronic, blind, ignorant retards. It's what keeps me safe
This^^

Best advice on keeping in one piece that you'll find.

Posted 3 months ago #
GW - Member

Posted 3 months ago #