That apart, in what way would making people more cautious of the consequences of say, going up Snowden with inappropriate footware/kit/food/preparation be a bad thing?

Of course that would be a good thing, but my thought is that you need to be cautious of unintended consequences. Free access to the hills is a definite public good in the UK, and while I’m sure there are examples of pillockry out there, I’m also pretty sure that would continue under a forced insurance scheme.

And I’m certain that moving MR from a voluntary to a paid service would fundamentally alter how it is viewed by the public and, as importantly, how members view their roles.

I do think a bill for £43,000 or such like does focus the mind quite nicely onto what actually consitutes an emergency. Obviously that can work both ways, however, generally the prospect of ones own imminent death does have a way of making cash seem less relevant and therefore helping with making the choices.

very long gully climb in Glencoe

Clachaig Gully? If so, I can imagine that was a lovely, wet night 🙂

It’s a staggeringly bad idea to expect people to have insurance to enjoy the countryside. The increase in call-outs is a function of accessibility and lack of education. There is no doubt that the MR teams are underfunded for the amount of work they do and people these days expect to get rescued at the slight inclination of a sprained ankle on the tourist path of Snowdon. EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION. the sooner people realise it is not a taxi service because they’ve gone over on their ankle and can’t be assed anymore, the better.

peterfile – Member

Clachaig Gully? If so, I can imagine that was a lovely, wet night
no actually some days in summer when doesn’t rain but I guess our inepts a bit wet in more than one way – Team did rescue in an hour or so

What happens if someone goes out somewhere, hurts themselves, calls for help and says “oh heavens no, I haven’t got insurance. didn’t think I’d need it”?

Do the fire brigade and paramedics have to go up to rescue them instead?

At what point coming down the mountain does responsibility change from the (££££££) MRT to the (free) ‘normal’ emergency services?

Or do we leave them to die?

dan1980 – Member
By all means we should exempt MRT from VAT, that would be a good thing.
If people could “sign” this petition, that’d be fantastic.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/44778

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO # REPORT-POST

Done.

The increase in call-outs is…

Wrong premise. The number of UK mountain incidents recorded by MRTs has been stable since 2009.

There was a significant increase from the mid-2000’s up to then, but that trend hasn’t continued.

How does it work in France exactly? I think most rescuers are still volunteers (local mountain guides) as they are the ones with the skills and knowledge required. But if a helicopter ride is required, then the rescued person is charged for that.

The Gendarmerie Nationale is in charge of mountain rescuing. nearly all mountain rescues are done by heli I believe.

Not the photo I was looking for…

http://crankitupgear.blogspot.co.uk/2010/08/happy-birthday-hamish-macinnes.html

…but love the white flat cap (had forgotten that) and oh look, no helmet!!!!

Or do we leave them to die?

Like I said before, It has been the case since the 70’s if you take ride in an ambulance for something that is deemed to be self inflicted. I haven’t noticed the roadside populated with mashed up motorcyclists, cyclists etc etc in their death throes.

EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION. the sooner people realise it is not a taxi service because they’ve gone over on their ankle and can’t be assed anymore, the better

I think thats the point of rendering an invoice…..

Some of the incidents which occur in the Alps suggest that, far from inhibiting call outs, a paid for service funded via insurance may actually increase their frequency, because people take the attitude that “I’ve paid for it, I might as well use it”. There was a case recently where someone was prosecuted for it because a hut guardian overheard them planning it the previous evening. That’s not the first time I’ve heard of people displaying that attitude.

There seems to be very little appetite for a paid for service amongst the MRT themselves, nor from bodies such as the MCofS BMC etc, so I doubt there’ll be any pressure to implement it from the government anytime soon.

Ambulance trips for motorcyclists and other “self inflicted” problems

So all motorcycle accidents are self-inflicted then?

Like I said before, It has been the case since the 70’s if you take ride in an ambulance for something that is deemed to be self inflicted.

Errr….no it’s not.

The healthcare costs of some RTCs are charged back from the insurers by the hospital. But if you have no insurance and you deliberately chop your hand off you get treated for free.

And how many cyclists have been billed for an emergency ambulance?! I’ve never, ever heard of that happening (in the UK).

I’ve had bills for emergency ambulances and mountain rescue in France though not for myself. They weren’t excessive and I paid up. In ski resorts there’s usually a price list depending on whether you are on or off-piste. Even helicopter bills seem reasonable. If you took a pleasure flight in a helicopter you’d expect the bill to have few zeros on the bottom line.

Insure or self insure, it’s up to you.

So all motorcycle accidents are self-inflicted then?

So who said that then?

Errr….no it’s not.

Err yes it is, its an arbritary decision as to whether you pay or not. I’ve both been charged and not charged and for both an RTC on a bike and on a motor bike. Frankly I couldn’t work out the logic behind it, but they did it.

peterfile – Member

Imagine working with the great Hamish MacInnes.

I sit at the next table to the legend often on a Sunday morning. A group of locals (including a friend of mine) meet regularly for breakfast, we tend to join later and listen to the subdued conversations. True gentleman

And much nicer now that creepy bastard from up the road isn’t there desperate to be centre of attention all the time 🙂

PS Hope you’ve tried the chocolate cake there, it’s rather good.

If you don’t have insurance and get rescued in the Alps, they normally just let you off (I have friends who were rescued as students sans insurance and they just got a slapped wrist).