It is so funny watching the tory fanboys trying to defend such an odious man. The best they can do is argue sematics and attack other people.
Where have I defended Lord Paul?
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More Ashcroft...
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Posted 2 years ago #
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If he'd paid the tens of millions in tax that he should have, I wouldn't mind him claiming a few grand in expenses
He has paid the taxes he 'should have'. He paid the taxes on his British earnings. Why on earth should he pay taxes here on foreign earnings?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Trust is one of the most important things for a politician and this has proven that the current crop of top tories are not trustworthy.
That's just politicians in general, they're all the same and therefore it's important for an ideal politician, but totally pointless to expect it in a real one.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Meanwhile TJ's chum Gordie is repeating the je ne regrette rien mantra :-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8550779.stm
You want lies, deceit and expert lessons on being an "utter shite" then perhaps you should look closer to home TJ.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I have never disagreed with the allthepies. I hold no brief for Brown the PM at all. However pointing out other peoples slimebagness does not reduce Ashcrofts.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Stevie - Member
"If he'd paid the tens of millions in tax that he should have, I wouldn't mind him claiming a few grand in expenses"
He has paid the taxes he 'should have'. He paid the taxes on his British earnings. Why on earth should he pay taxes here on foreign earnings?
Because being UK resident and paying tax in the Uk as domiciled here was what he promised to do in order to get his peerage. Read Hagues quotes.
It the deceit that is the issue - he said he would do one thing then concealed even from the leader of his party that he didn't do this.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The worst thing about all of this for me, is that Ashcroft hasn't even broken the Law.
He's altered the shape of British politics, with money hoarded away in a tax haven, (where he pays no tax at all) but obviously finds the idea of helping to fund this country's schools hospitals, and defence completely beneath him. The Conservative party then engaged in a 10 year cover up, that tells you all you need to know about how they'd run the country. By taking Ashcroft's money callmedave tells us he'd rather protect private interests over the public good. Made to choose between the public purse and the tiny minority interests of the super-rich, he chose that latter. I think it's safe to assume that if he gets to no 10, he'd carry on.
This revolting behaviour that both Labour and the Conservatives indulge in, is perfectly legal...The rest of us pay our taxes in full on time, and these parasites (some-one who enjoys the benefits of something without paying their share) who can shout louder than us with donations get away with paying nothing.
Tax Justice Network estimate that rich individuals "avoid" 13bn a year. (The top third of Britain's top 700 industries have paid no tax at all) Thats enough to pay off the deficit in 7 years.
I've started to rant, sorry
Posted 2 years ago # -
Tax Justice Network estimate that rich individuals "avoid" 13bn a year. (The top third of Britain's top 700 industries have paid no tax at all) Thats enough to pay off the deficit in 7 years.
i think that alone is enough to make one very angry
Posted 2 years ago # -
If you want to retain American citizenship, you pay American taxes, or you can't be a citizen. You're allowed to earn $50,000 abroad tax free, then where-ever you live in the world you pay US tax rates, or renounce your rights as a US citizen. The IMF actually classified the UK as a Tax Haven for foreigners up to 2008 because of the craven lack of requirment for the very very rich to pay taxes in this country even though they enjoy the benefits of living in a safe, sophisticated 1st world country, even now all they have to pay is £30,000.
And councils are laying off workers, and complaining about the cost of schools and teachers.
Still ranting, again apologies.
Posted 2 years ago # -
last one.
Remember, the Conservatives want us to believe that the ONLY way of coming out this recession is to slash spending, this is unnecessary if the super rich (like Ashcroft, the man they helped for 10 years, hide money from US) pay their fair share.
Enough, I'm off to do more work, so I can pay more taxes.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Won't they just up and go, leaving us with even less revenue?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Why on earth should he pay taxes here on foreign earnings?
Because he lives here, and aims to hold a position in the next Government?
It's common knowledge that the super-rich pay less tax than the rest of us. I think that is wrong regardless. However, someone who is trying to claim the moral authority to govern the rest of us needs to be seen to be "whiter than white".
He's a billionaire! He can actually afford to pay a decent amount of tax on his earnings and still never want for any material thing. But he doesn't. He prefers to play the power game of getting one over on the rest of us.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Won't they just up and go, leaving us with even less revenue
You mean if we ask them for the money they currently don't pay, they might go somewhere else and not pay it?
Not sure how that makes life here any worse for the rest of us?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that they pay tax on all UK earnings and that they spend a fair amount of money in these isles thus contributing to our economy?
I agree that it sucks big time but maybe a little is better than nothing?Posted 2 years ago # -
I don't think so. But then I think we need to move to a no growth economy.
Personally I'd be happy to see the back of all of these parasites (c.f) because any money they may put into the economy does very little to mitigate the vast amount of bad feeling they create.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The thing is, given the right political will, we can and do shut down funds, find the money trails, and persuade even the most recalcitrant tax haven countries like Monaco, and Switzerland to give up secrets. Remember the post 9/11 money laundering rules? That shut down any shadowy links to Al-Qa-ida within A WEEK.
We know where the money is, we know who has it, all we lack its the political will to do anything about it, and we are the poorer for it, not them...
Where was that quote from Michael Foot?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Tax Justice Network estimate that rich individuals "avoid" 13bn a year. (The top third of Britain's top 700 industries have paid no tax at all) Thats enough to pay off the deficit in 7 years.
i think that alone is enough to make one very angry
Then blame James Grdon Brown, the man responsible for it.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Stevie, you're very boring.
Posted 2 years ago # -
TJ - I see you're still saying the same things, but not responding to any of the reasonable challenges made to you - so, once again:
who did he negotiate this change in the agreement with? The cabinet office
i) So, since they were complicit in the deal throughout, do you think its fair and reasonable for Labour ministers to call foul now?
ii) Why are you not accusing the cabinet office of misleading people/parliament?
iii) can you please back up your repeated allegations of lying....
Posted 2 years ago # -
He's a big fat liar, and despite all that money, is as thick as mince.
All he had to do was tell the truth, but he tried to be clever, charging the costs of opinion polls to avoid paying VAT, for one.
Dimwitted rich man who thinks he can buy influence...
Posted 2 years ago # -
Zulu - yawwwwnnnnnnnn.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2010/mar/04/lord-ashcroft-who-knew-truth
This was the exchange at which it was settled that "permanent resident" could mean "long-term resident". However, Phillips insists he was just "crossing the Ts and dotting the Is", and says he was not aware of the implication of the conditions.
That puts James Arbuthnot, pictured, at the heart of the process that ended with Phillips downgrading Ashcroft's undertaking to become a "permanent resident" to "long-term resident". This conversation, before Phillips signed the peerage off, is the "subsequent dialogue" Ashcroft refers to in his statement declaring his non-dom status, and allowed him to continue to keep the majority of his financial affairs in the Caribbean.
Arbuthnot is of course a tory.Lord Turnbull was cabinet secretary between 2002 and 2005. His appointment postdates the awarding of Ashcroft's peerage, but that hasn't stopped him expressing views. Yesterday he was reported as saying that it was incumbent on Hague as Ashcroft's sponsor for a peerage to ensure his pledge was fulfilled. He said: "We had been assured by Hague that this was the real deal. It turns out that Ashcroft is being economical with the truth, and that Hague fell for it."
Posted 2 years ago # -
Stevie, you're very boring
Aaaah, the Zanulabour method of dealing with a FACT you don't like. Mud sling. Pathetic. James Gordon Brown IS 100% responsible for his rich friends paying no tax, FACT. Shame it doesn't fit in with your left-whinge agenda, hey?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Stevie - you prejudice and hatred is showing. By saying Zanulabour you lose 98 credibility points and this
method of dealing with a FACT you don't like. Mud sling. Pathetic
Is exactly what you have been doing. folk attack a Tory - you attack labour whan there is nno defence of the torys lies and deceitPosted 2 years ago # -
As I have told you before Jerry, Labour lost my respect when they lied and betrayed the country over the EU Constitution.
Leftys whining about rich folk not paying tax-and then refusing to blame the man responsible-James Gordon Brown is hypocritical and nonsenical-and I am glad to point that out no matter what tantrum you throw.
Posted 2 years ago # -
So - xenophobe or racist?
No lies over the EU constitution as it was never adopted so no need for a referendum . In the UKs best interests so no betrayal.
I'd love to know why you think ashcrofts tax avoidance in Browns fault? Nice piece of doublethink there
Posted 2 years ago # -
Stevie, you are boring because you never expand one post beyond name calling. adding the word "FACT" in capitals doesn't actually help a great deal.
Come on, develop your point. How is Gordon Brown (I think we all know who I'm talking about even leaving off the James bit) 100% responsible for his rich friends (and by adding the word "his" I guess you mean current arrangements only apply to labour supporters?) paying no tax?
Is it just because he is the PM and therefore *everything* is his fault?
Posted 2 years ago # -
So - xenophobe or racist?
Sorry Jerry but if you are going to stoop that low you can just bore off.
No lies over the EU constitution as it was never adopted so no need for a referendum . In the UKs best interests so no betrayal
Rubbish, huge swathes of our sovereignty were signed away. The Constitution was there in all but name, Brown broke a manifesto pledge and betrayed the nation.
I'd love to know why you think ashcrofts tax avoidance in Browns fault?
And you won't get away with your silly lies either, I never said Ashcrofts tax avoidance was Browns fault, I said he was responsible for the tax regime that allows the rich-including his cronies-to pay little or no tax. Being as he has been in charge of Britains finances for 13 years who else is bloody responsible?
Posted 2 years ago # -
And you, PRPT are boring with your dull, left-whinge diatribe. But, to answer your point-
Come on, develop your point. How is Gordon Brown (I think we all know who I'm talking about even leaving off the James bit) 100% responsible for his rich friends (and by adding the word "his" I guess you mean current arrangements only apply to labour supporters?) paying no tax?
Brown has been in charge of Britains finances for 13 years. He has served in a government with a large, workable majority. He could have closed those loop-holes, raised the tax levels on the rich (including his chums like Eric Daniels, Fred Goodwin, Lord Paul, Lord Sainsbury etc etc) any time he had wanted to. So why didn't he? Because Labour are now the party of the rich-as admitted so famously by Mandelson.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I notice you often get sleepy when your facts get shaky TJ...
So, TJ you still cannot demonstrate a single solitary [u]lie[/i] told by Ashcroft despite repeatedly making that allegation, the closest you have so far come to is an editorial commenting "economical with the truth"
No lies over the EU constitution as it was never adopted
Hahahaha - nice double standards TJ
Regards the Cabinet office, all decisions made by the cabinet office are the responsibility of a minister, a Labour government minister - which member of the cabinet signed off on the decision to change the rules?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Fellas, there is a decent debate in there among the handbags..
Posted 2 years ago # -
The Constitution was there in all but name
Same as Ashcrofts pledge to be domiciled in the Uk and pay Uk tax?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Zulu - the lie is clear to anyone with half a brain. Edit - as I have demostrated a dozen times on this thread.
Even Hague was fooled by his lie and so was Cameron
Posted 2 years ago # -
Show me, show me just one quote where there is a lie told by Ashcroft TJ
Just one quote that you can prove to be not true - not an impression, not someone else's interpretation of the facts, not a supposition or presumption - one single solitary lie told by Ashcroft!
I have no problem with you accusing him of misleading, I have no problem with you accusing him of dissembling the facts - however you've specifically accused him of lying, and you know damn well you cannot back that up!
Posted 2 years ago # -
Zulu - no matter how you wish it away its a matter of public record.
His "solemn undertaking bla hblah blah"
Clear and obvious lie
Posted 2 years ago # -
i'm wading in here having not read page 2 so may have missed something but Stevie, if Dave gets in do you think he is gonna start taxing all Gordon's friends? I doubt it. I doubt Nick Clegg would either although Vince might have something to say about that. The politicians can't do anything, the super rich have them over a barrel. Us gullible lot down here look up to these politicians expecting them to look after us all and I am sure many of them want to, but really what can they do.
Zulu - finding a lie which is a fact is very difficult as generally only two people will ever know. Someone else's interpretation is generally how the political world works unfortunately (that and who shouts the loudest).
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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