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I thought I was supposed to be blind, so am I now deaf as well? As correct as your other allegations.
Ashcroft has [s]lied[/s] and misled
In the Real World (not affiliated with any leftwing existence) You'd be very hard pressed to prove a lie in there TJ.
He misled did he? Go on then, so what are you going to do about it? He's not even elected so you cant through Malfeasance in Public Office at him. I know, how about just use it as an illustration that all tories are corrupt and invidious. That'll work. Afterall misleading is next to lying which is next to murder and that's close to eating babies and only one step away from ridiculing the labour movement. Egads! String 'im up!
Ashcroft has [b]lied[/b]
TJ - show me [u]one[/u] example where Ashcroft has [u]lied[/u], just one!
TJ - Would you kindly provide a link to the interview where Hague said he was misled by Ashcroft?
Its there mefty
.Later, in a sign that, despite their friendship, Mr Hague is not prepared to shield the peer, who has donated millions of pounds to the Conservatives, the shadow foreign secretary gave an interview in which he made clear that Lord Ashcroft’s true status had been kept from him
had been kept from him
How is that a misleading someone, if you dont let them know [i]either[/i] way??
Can you now please back up your allegations of lies TJ?
Oh dear, TJ, I would have thought you would have learnt by now, you can't rely on the newspapers to get this right, even the Telegraph. You can listen to the original source [url= http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qtl3 ]here[/url]. He does not say he was misled.
How is that a misleading someone, if you dont let them know either way??
Z11, I might think you are a total pillock.
Indeed RPRT - but, equally, you might not 😉
Difference between you and me is, that I [b]know[/b] I am...
If your Mrs went out last night, and didn't come back till the morning, I guess you'd ask her where she's been - if she said "none of your business" then you couldn't accuse her of misleading you - you'd say she was being obstructive, you'd say she was keeping something from you, but you couldn't accuse her of misleading you (she was great by the way!)
Of course he doesn't say it outright - but it is clear that he was not told of the change Ashcroft had made from the status he had reccomended him to be a peer on the basis of to the status he has now. Hague was left making a statement that Ashcroft must have know was untrue but Ashcroft let Hague make the untrue statement without correction.
How clear evidence of deceit do you need? That is so clear to anyone without blinkers hence the press reporting it as such. I used the torygraph as we know it is the hous paper of the Tories
TJ - who did he negotiate this change in the agreement with?
The cabinet office - the Government itself! Who is the leader of the cabinet office, a Labour minister!
So, since they were complicit in the deal throughout, do you think its fair and reasonable for Labour ministers to call foul now?
Why are you not accusing the cabinet office of misleading people/parliament?
Again, can you either back up or withdraw your allegations of lying....
I agree that he said he was not told of Ashcroft's revisions of the agreement, but he was also clear that by that stage there was no need for him to know as it had become a matter between Ashcroft and the Cabinet Office. These discussions essentially formalised and superseded previous representations whether correct or not, and there is no evidence that they weren't correct.
So there is no implicit admission of being mislead either.
Quibble over minor details all you like chaps, but the case is clear; the man wants a say in UK politics, but can't be bothered paying tax here.
That makes him a cock.
No Crikey - he pays UK taxes on his UK business operations, and Belize taxes on his foreign income.
I like watching Hague squirm.
I'll be surprised if no one gets caught out lying before this is over.
I also like to think that a lot of voters are going to be thinking the same way as crikey.
He who pays the piper calls the tune.
A lot of voters are going to be wondering who runs the Conservative party and why.
He who pays the piper calls the tune.A lot of voters are going to be wondering who runs the Labour party and why.
And, while wondering that, they might ask why a husband of a member of the Labour party (A member who is, lest we forget, a posh toff, innit) was selected as Parliamentary candidate. From an all women shortlist. Nothing to do with the continued funding of Labour by Unite, oh no. Nothing at all.
Of course, we all now need to ponder what will happen when the Glorious Leader is lightly grilled by Chilcot on the morrow. Tears, tantrums or both?
I like watching Hague squirm.I'll be surprised if no one gets caught out lying before this is over
Someone has been caught lying. TJ.
Lets slag off Ashcroft for funding Crimestoppers out of his own pocket. Lets attack him for buying up VCs and donating them to the nation. Lets kick him for never claiming parliamentry expenses. I'd rather have Ashcroft than Mandelson, Blair, Lord Paul, Hinduja, the union dictators or any of the other self serving Labour hypocrites any day.
Lets slag Ashcroft off for lying to the public, his party leaders and to paliament. Lets slag him off for stating he would pay full UK tax then not doing so. Lets slag him off for buying influence without being resident. Lets slag him off for his corrupt business practices in Belize.
The man is an utter shite - I have no time for people of his ilk from any party and that includes mandelson and paul
It is so funny watching the tory fanboys trying to defend such an odious man. The best they can do is argue sematics and attack other people.
Id rather he paid taxes than gave charity.
Dammit, I got all excited thinking this was a thread about Richard Ashcroft releasing a new album 🙁
The questions that they won't answer
1. William Hague has now confirmed that he has known about Lord Ashcroft's tax status for a "few months". When exactly did he discover your party's deputy chairman was a non-dom?
2. Why did Mr Hague not immediately publicly clarify Lord Ashcroft's status which both he and the peer had previously pledged would be that of a permanent UK resident?
3. Did he immediately tell David Cameron about Lord Ashcroft's true status? If not, why not?
4. Why did Mr Hague take more than nine years to establish Lord Ashcroft's status when he had personally offered written assurances to both Tony Blair and the honours committee that Ashcroft would become a permanent UK resident and pay "tens of millions a year" in tax as a condition for receiving the peerage?
5. Why did Mr Cameron not establish Lord Ashcroft's true status until more than four years after becoming party leader?
Stevie,
He's given £5 million to Crimestoppers and £5 million to the Imperial War Museum to house the "Ashcroft Collection". That's a small fraction of the tax he would have paid if he'd done the honourable thing and paid them in the same way that you or I have to.
He hasn't donated his VC collection to the nation.
If he'd paid the tens of millions in tax that he should have, I wouldn't mind him claiming a few grand in expenses.
TJ - if you are going to copy and paste from the Guardian you should at least credit your source.
A politician told some porkies and you getting your knickers in a twist over it? weapons of mass distraction anyone?
It is so funny watching the tory fanboys trying to defend such an odious man. The best they can do is argue sematics and attack other people.
Where have I defended Lord Paul?
If he'd paid the tens of millions in tax that he should have, I wouldn't mind him claiming a few grand in expenses
He [i]has[/i] paid the taxes he 'should have'. He paid the taxes on his British earnings. Why on earth should he pay taxes here on foreign earnings?
Trust is one of the most important things for a politician and this has proven that the current crop of top tories are not trustworthy.
That's just politicians in general, they're all the same and therefore it's important for an ideal politician, but totally pointless to expect it in a real one.
Meanwhile TJ's chum Gordie is repeating the je ne regrette rien mantra :-
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8550779.stm
You want lies, deceit and expert lessons on being an "utter shite" then perhaps you should look closer to home TJ.
I have never disagreed with the allthepies. I hold no brief for Brown the PM at all. However pointing out other peoples slimebagness does not reduce Ashcrofts.
Stevie - Member"If he'd paid the tens of millions in tax that he should have, I wouldn't mind him claiming a few grand in expenses"
He has paid the taxes he 'should have'. He paid the taxes on his British earnings. Why on earth should he pay taxes here on foreign earnings?
Because being UK resident and paying tax in the Uk as domiciled here was what he promised to do in order to get his peerage. Read Hagues quotes.
It the deceit that is the issue - he said he would do one thing then concealed even from the leader of his party that he didn't do this.
The worst thing about all of this for me, is that Ashcroft hasn't even broken the Law.
He's altered the shape of British politics, with money hoarded away in a tax haven, (where he pays no tax at all) but obviously finds the idea of helping to fund this country's schools hospitals, and defence completely beneath him. The Conservative party then engaged in a 10 year cover up, that tells you all you need to know about how they'd run the country. By taking Ashcroft's money callmedave tells us he'd rather protect private interests over the public good. Made to choose between the public purse and the tiny minority interests of the super-rich, he chose that latter. I think it's safe to assume that if he gets to no 10, he'd carry on.
This revolting behaviour that both Labour and the Conservatives indulge in, is perfectly legal...The rest of us pay our taxes in full on time, and these parasites (some-one who enjoys the benefits of something without paying their share) who can shout louder than us with donations get away with paying nothing.
Tax Justice Network estimate that rich individuals "avoid" 13bn a year. (The top third of Britain's top 700 industries have paid no tax at all) Thats enough to pay off the deficit in 7 years.
I've started to rant, sorry
Tax Justice Network estimate that rich individuals "avoid" 13bn a year. (The top third of Britain's top 700 industries have paid no tax at all) Thats enough to pay off the deficit in 7 years.
i think that alone is enough to make one very angry
If you want to retain American citizenship, you pay American taxes, or you can't be a citizen. You're allowed to earn $50,000 abroad tax free, then where-ever you live in the world you pay US tax rates, or renounce your rights as a US citizen. The IMF actually classified the UK as a Tax Haven for foreigners up to 2008 because of the craven lack of requirment for the very very rich to pay taxes in this country even though they enjoy the benefits of living in a safe, sophisticated 1st world country, even now all they have to pay is £30,000.
And councils are laying off workers, and complaining about the cost of schools and teachers.
Still ranting, again apologies.
last one.
Remember, the Conservatives want us to believe that the ONLY way of coming out this recession is to slash spending, this is unnecessary if the super rich (like Ashcroft, the man they helped for 10 years, hide money from US) pay their fair share.
Enough, I'm off to do more work, so I can pay more taxes.
Won't they just up and go, leaving us with even less revenue?
Why on earth should he pay taxes here on foreign earnings?
Because he lives here, and aims to hold a position in the next Government?
It's common knowledge that the super-rich pay less tax than the rest of us. I think that is wrong regardless. However, someone who is trying to claim the moral authority to govern the rest of us needs to be seen to be "whiter than white".
He's a billionaire! He can actually afford to pay a decent amount of tax on his earnings and still never want for any material thing. But he doesn't. He prefers to play the power game of getting one over on the rest of us.
Won't they just up and go, leaving us with even less revenue
You mean if we ask them for the money they currently don't pay, they might go somewhere else and not pay it?
Not sure how that makes life here any worse for the rest of us?
I was under the impression (rightly or wrongly) that they pay tax on all UK earnings and that they spend a fair amount of money in these isles thus contributing to our economy?
I agree that it sucks big time but maybe a little is better than nothing?
I don't think so. But then I think we need to move to a no growth economy.
Personally I'd be happy to see the back of all of these parasites (c.f) because any money they may put into the economy does very little to mitigate the vast amount of bad feeling they create.
The thing is, given the right political will, we can and do shut down funds, find the money trails, and persuade even the most recalcitrant tax haven countries like Monaco, and Switzerland to give up secrets. Remember the post 9/11 money laundering rules? That shut down any shadowy links to Al-Qa-ida within A WEEK.
We know where the money is, we know who has it, all we lack its the political will to do anything about it, and we are the poorer for it, not them...
Where was that quote from Michael Foot?
Tax Justice Network estimate that rich individuals "avoid" 13bn a year. (The top third of Britain's top 700 industries have paid no tax at all) Thats enough to pay off the deficit in 7 years.i think that alone is enough to make one very angry
Then blame James Grdon Brown, the man responsible for it.
Stevie, you're very boring.
TJ - I see you're still saying the same things, but not responding to any of the reasonable challenges made to you - so, once again:
who did he negotiate this change in the agreement with? The cabinet office
i) So, since they were complicit in the deal throughout, do you think its fair and reasonable for Labour ministers to call foul now?
ii) Why are you not accusing the cabinet office of misleading people/parliament?
iii) can you please back up your [u]repeated allegations of lying.[/u]...
He's a big fat liar, and despite all that money, is as thick as mince.
All he had to do was tell the truth, but he tried to be clever, charging the costs of opinion polls to avoid paying VAT, for one.
Dimwitted rich man who thinks he can buy influence...