not much of a sentence really is it - will they come out the other side remorseful? personally I doubt it, yet the tax payer will most likely fund a new cosy lifestyle for them and the family. I just hope the victims get the same attention they deserve
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minimum 5 years for attack on the boys
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Posted 2 years ago #
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think they need help - not prison.
they are only children themselves.
Posted 2 years ago # -
You cannot blame those boys in this instance. Kids should have been taken into care long before anything like this happened.
Posted 2 years ago # -
its outrageous that they were tried in a criminal court at all and criminal punishment is of no use.
Sorry - these two boys are clearly damaged and victims themselves. Only in England ( and a very few other countries) would children of this age be treated disgracefully like this.
a travesty of justice.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Long post about this over on the other forum...
Posted 2 years ago # -
They were tried in a criminal court because they are CRIMINAlS though?!
Posted 2 years ago # -
they're not going to prison - well not what I would call prison anyroad! (which is correct, they need all the help they can get, but I just can't see them becoming model citizens out of it)
call me old fashioned but I hope karma comes into play at some point in the future
Posted 2 years ago # -
dicky - to be a criminal you have to have some comprehension that what you did was wrong - they clearly did not.
Posted 2 years ago # -
when my tumble dryer was damaged i cut off its energy supply and dumped it . There is a lot to be said for that approach. I hope if any of your family get tortured to near death your equally forgiving.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'd disagree on one point TJ. I believe that they knew exactly what they were doing but due to their "toxic upbringing" cared little about their actions or consequences. However I would agree that they are damaged and need mending.
The person at the root of this is the father. Maybe he was subject to a similar upbringing too, I don't know. I would suggest a good first step would be steralisation of the father then he can't produce any further damaged offspring. In fact I'd go a step further and ban him from contact with children under threat of custodial sentence.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Indefinite could be a long time though
Posted 2 years ago # -
'to be a criminal you have to have some comprehension that what you did was wrong - they clearly did not'
cobblers. Of course they did.
Posted 2 years ago # -
the children had already been removed form their parents. Sadly this was done too late.
TJ is right, they had no comprehension of the evil they were committing as the messages they received from their parents were that it was ok to undertake such acts.
If all kids were subjected to violence and the telly tubbies used bricks to batter tinky winky and forced Po to perform oral sex on Barny the dinosaur then they'd all think this kind of thing was fine.
Posted 2 years ago # -
dicky - to be a criminal you have to have some comprehension that what you did was wrong - they clearly did not.
Yeah thats rubbish TJ and you know it. If they didn't know why did they take their victims down to the woods? But yeah their upbringing was at some fault for them being freaks.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Agree with TJ.
Very deeply disturbed young boys, who have grown up watching their father beat their mother and have clearly been damaged as a result.
They need out of that environment and they need help.
I hope they get that but I doubt they will
Posted 2 years ago # -
At the age of ten? It would be very unusual for them to have fully developed moral sense at that age and in their case their so badly damaged that I doubt their development is normal.
this is why in humane societies children are not tried in adult courts - even in Scotland it is very rare children are tried in adult courts and in most of the rest of the world it never happens.
Some links to the debate on this. I think the whole trial, media circus and sentencing is an huge stain on the English law.
http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snha-03001.pdf
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2001/jun/20/bulger.familyandrelationships
Posted 2 years ago # -
comprehension or not. They need teaching that you can't do that. Lock them up for the rest of their natural (if we're not going to execute the evil little toerags), sterilsie the parents. Job done. A message is sent to all the other verminous kids roaming the streets these days.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Im not really sure of the point of this post ?
This is a terrible crime, but im not really sure why people are critising the length of the sentence.
What do they think if their let out in 10 years all of a sudden there'll be sorry and be able to live decents lives.
Or maybe in 15 years every thing will be hunky dory ? How would you work that out M6TTF ?
In reality I dont think there is much that can be done either for the victims or accused.
Like people say the accused obviously need help as well, but I doubt there is very much that can be done for them they are very unlikely to lead normal productive lives after this no matter how good the physiological help.
Also its not like after the sentence there just going to be let straight back on the street.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Dickydutch - you really think that will do any good? Are children deterred by prison sentences?
If they cannot comprehend they cannot learn
Posted 2 years ago # -
Was reported yesterday that during the search for the 2nd victim, the father of the assailants came forward with his boys and told the police his boys weren't to blame because they had been with him all day.
This was BEFORE the assailants had been formally named.This tells me several things, that the father at least was in regular contact with the boys, the boys KNEW what they had done was wrong and that the father was prepared to cover for attempted murder.
Sometimes my stance against the death penalty is somewhat stretched...
Posted 2 years ago # -
at the age of ten i bet you didn't stop picking your nose just because your mate got grounded by his mum for doing it.
you can't send a message to 'verminous kids' by locking up 2 other kids who they've never met. Your average 10 year old will have little comprehension of why that is in any way relevant to them.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Oh, they knew what they were doing alright. They just didn't care.
I do agree that it's help they need more than anything though. I feel sorry for everyone involved TBH.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Its the parents that should go down
Posted 2 years ago # -
mi©k - Member
when my tumble dryer was damaged i cut off its energy supply and dumped it . There is a lot to be said for that approach.Are you seriously advocating the death sentence for ten year olds?????
Posted 2 years ago # -
scu98rkr
There is a fair chance that they can be rehabilitated but the criminal sentence makes it less likely. Venables and Thompson - the bulger killers - one of them was well rehabilitated the other less successfully.It can be done.
Posted 2 years ago # -
At their current age I reckon the longer you lock them up the worse they will be when they get out.
Posted 2 years ago # -
@scu98rkr - (i think) my point was that I don't think 5 years is long enough for any sort of rehabilitation given the extreme nature of the crime and the appalling upbringing they clearly had. I hope they don't have a 'normal' life in the future, i don't think they deserve to. Maybe that's ignorant and non-forgiving of me but if it happened to my son i'd damn well make sure they suffered!
Posted 2 years ago # -
andemJeremy - Member
scu98rkr
There is a fair chance that they can be rehabilitated but the criminal sentence makes it less likely. Venables and Thompson - the bulger killers - one of them was well rehabilitated the other less successfully.It can be done.
do you have evidence of this?
Posted 2 years ago # -
I agree Muddydwarf - shocking to hear Dad defending the boys even before they had found the second boy.
The parents need locking up in a prison where the 'prison rules' will be regularly dealt out.
These boys are never going to be right and I wonder how society will cope with them when they are eventually allowed out. Indefinite is a very long time for these two.
Posted 2 years ago # -
M6TTF
Its more or less what the judge said at the time that there was a court case bout them going into an adult jail or not.
Posted 2 years ago # -
graham s yes i am , or at least locked up til they are 16 and then hung
Posted 2 years ago # -
There is a lot to be said for that approach. I hope if any of your family get tortured to near death your equally forgiving
Thats why we have a justice system that does not consider the vengeful approach advocated by many above.
Yes I may feel that way but I wouldnt like to live in a society that acts on my basic and neanderthal response.
I agree mostly with TJ and as a parent now and someone who was growing up in Liverpool at the time of the Bulger attack I can honestly say I shed tears at the time and since when I consider the pain and suffering he must have experienced. These boys were relatively lucky however I suspect they are scarred for life.
Wreaking punishments from the middle ages is not the answer.Posted 2 years ago # -
I fail to see that if I kid hurts another kid he doesn't think it's a bad thing - he won't want to get hurt in the same way right?
Posted 2 years ago # -
mi©k
and your solution would achieve what exactly?
Posted 2 years ago # -
they would not do it again for sure and it may put off other people who think that its quite a good idea as theyve nowt else to do ;-(
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
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