I think their lack of real effort in resolving it is the reason they're still ill...
you might be right about your friends but maybe their lack if effort is a symptom of the depression.
Depression robs you of the insight, and motivation to do the very things that would make you better, a vicious circle.
To quote the OP
" ....I originally started on the meds as I had been feeling very lethargic irritable and sensitive for a while - now I've actually used the meds I'm starting to feel depressed on top of everything else ..."
" .... just generally feel angry and tired,with 0 motivation to do anything including ride. ...."
Classic symptoms of depression IMO, irritability and anger is very common in men whereas tearfulness is more common in women.
I would ask to speak to another GP at the practice. Three drug interventions all from the same class of SSRI doesn't add up IMO, so you could ask to try a drug from a different class. Although I can see why if the GP thinks it is an anxiety disorder he/she keeps plugging the same drugs. A fresh pair of eyes can not do any harm.
Also NICE guidelines were pretty clear the last time I read them three interventions and after that you should be offered a referral. If it wasn't for the stigma around mental health issues then I bet you would be jumping up and down for a referral for any other ailment.
IME Community Psychiatry services have been very good. Clearly there are good and bad shrinks like all walks of life, but you will at least be offered a proper lengthy consultation rather than 10 mins in a busy schedule.
I am still of the opinion once you get past the GPs our NHS is excellent. Its the first step that can be so variable from one practice or GP to next.
It's threads like this that are immeasurably positive and helpful - apart from the obvious jokey/banter threads this is when the forums is at its best.
It might just be me, but I think that jokey banter positively helps threads like this, so long as it's meant with warmth rather than unpleasantness. Otherwise it's all Really Serious.
For me, it's a coping mechanism. If I lost an arm in an accident and my friends' opening gambit wasn't "you gormless, stumpy ****t" I'd be very disappointed.
Just 'ticking'
I'll come back tomorrow and type a reply about my experiences. Won't now as have a splitting headache (not through my anxiety meds)
Cougar - you misunderstand me - I'm saying that unrelated jokey threads are good and all that but the forum can also pull together and offer good constructive personal help when it's required.
Perhaps from 'apart' I should have said 'in addition to'!
Can't believe we have not seen a single MTFU yet.
JulianWilsons post is spot on as well.
Brilliant post mate.
I hope the OP gets better! This response is so much better than one I saw about a month ago which was along the lines of "MTFU". Hopefully my indignant rage made a few people think twice before posting such things.
Some really good advice here...
Lots of the comments are about how the UK system would deal with this. There are at least two words in the OPs post which suggest he is not in, or not from the UK. It might be worth bearing this in mind in our replies.
Other than that I think everything I would have said has been said already.
Cougar - you misunderstand me - I'm saying that unrelated jokey threads are good and all that but the forum can also pull together and offer good constructive personal help when it's required.Perhaps from 'apart' I should have said 'in addition to'!
Ah, yes, I do. As you were. (-:
Hey stoatsbrother, I am indeed in the uk, would my two words have been Prozac and therapist ?
Prozac Is easier to remember and type than fluxotine lol which is I Beleive the same med.
Zoloft and meds
It is lustral over here, not Zoloft
Good luck by the way. Hope things go well
Ah ok my bad, thanks for your support.
Good luck in getting to see a therapist. My local community health team would refuse your referral and bounce you back to your gp. In my experience i have no option but to prescribe because accessto psychological therapies in the nhs in south wales is absolutely shocking/ non existent.
Hi anxious11.
I was very much in the 'man up and don't be soft' camp until I was completely humbled with with two extended bouts of anxiety disorder and depression, neccesitating quite some time from work!
I did talk to a lot of people and this was a big help, i was very fortunate with all the help and support I got!
I found a combination of CBT and citalopram worked for me - I feel better than ever now, and the CBT has helped me understand why things happen the way they do for for me, and how to cope with it. I would definately recommend CBT. IF you can afford to go private then IMHO it would be money well spent if you can find a good one?
One other thing - you mentioned you don't feel like cycling? PLEASE GO CYCLING even if you have to force yourself. When have you ever come back from cycling wishing you hadn't gone? Quite a lot of people find excercise very useful for both anxiety an depression. The thng with depression is you feel like doing nothing, but this is the worst you can do - you've got to get out and do stuff even if you really have to force yourself.
Good luck, and hope you're feeling your old self soon.
Col.
how you feeling today anxious?
Day 3 for me on Citalopram and it is still a living knightmare 
Hope your feeling a bit better.
There's a lot of shouts for CBT...it's not the only option. Person centred counselling is also an option.
other therapies as well McHamish. the critical thing is what suits you and how you get on with your counsellor
Yes. GP's will usually recommend CBT as it's the treatment of choice for the NHS, however PCC often works for some people due to the difference in approach.
One key point, across both approaches, if you go privately (ie choose your own therapist) try to find someone who's BACP registered. If you go to the BACP website there's advice on choosing a therapist. They also will provide details of possible therapists in your local area.
hello anxious 11...
I`m going to my first counselling session May 10th. I honestly think I know exactly what you are going through and want to make my point by saying, involve all those around you and let everyone help and support you which is what I have done myself. I'm part of a great group of riders who I have brought my frame of mind up with recently and they totally understand to the best of their ability what I'm going through. I hope you find what works best for you to get you back to how you know you can be, why not think about a counselling assessment from your GP as another solution?
regards j
Thing is... There is evidence of effectiveness for CBT and CAT,
3 days on citalopram is very early. Even 2 weeks is...I
Been through something similar to this mate (depression or whatever), it's in no way easy, ended up gradually going up to 40mg citalopram a day which did little for me. Doc wasn't really interested (or I didn't explain it properly). Did what I could to seek out help for myself with the help of mates (I sort of begrudged their help at the time). It takes huge balls to admit you're losing it a bit and accept you need a bit of help, loads of respect for that. I decided to make a massive change in my life - move away form London, stupid pressures I was putting on myself, back to my roots, cut down on booze (which was a big factor), chill out and get a sense of perspective. Happier now, but I know I have that negative side to me that I have to keep in check. I think you've got to accept yourself how you are to a certain extent and understand your trigger points. I think CBT is what's needed if you can get it. and exercise even if just a spin to the shops. all the best with this.
Stoatsbrother - MemberThing is... There is evidence of effectiveness for CBT and CAT,
As there is for other counselling methods. Don't get me wrong CBT is useful and has its place but its only one of a range of options.
I personally really like the person centred approach. But It will not be right for everyone. CBT is not right for me.
Day 3 for me on Citalopram and it is still a living knightmare
Well like all nightmares it won't last. However bad you feel right now, just focus on the fact that you won't always feel like that.
That's a cast iron guarantee btw - believe me.
Going on and coming off Citalopram was difficult, it passes and the bit in between is much easier.
I have really bad anxiety and know how your feeling. Always speak out and look after yourself.
Understanding the triggers sounds like very good advice and then learning how to cope and deal with them. Is that what CBT is all about ??? I am also of the understanding that citalopram is use extensively to treat anxiety more than depression, its a lot more complex when you start peeling back the layers to understand why you slip into depression, been there myself, starting to think I'm not out of the woods yet.
Excellent thread!
I went mental a few years ago, CBT was great. Take a look at the Paul Mckenna (yes i know) stuff, it's really good. Also stop smoking if you do, a cloud will literally lift....
Thanks again everyone, I was suprises to see anymore posts today.
Just wanted to say I really appreciate all the advice offered, and I genuinly feel like just getting it out there has been a positive.
Hills keep your chin up I feel like a different person today amazing what difference a day can make.
I've just spent some time (3 days a week for a month) at the Priory (thanks BUPA!)and am now in the wind down stage of 121 CBT. The fellow patients there were all normal folks and a pretty much average cross section of white ie middle class SW London! Everyone from early 20's students to partners in city firms to self employed to retired to housewives - you name it, pretty much every group was represented
You say:
"I originally started on the meds as I had been feeling very lethargic irritable and sensitive for a while - now I've actually used the meds I'm starting to feel depressed on top of everything else."
That reads as depression to me. GP's are not experts - the clue is in the name! - and the diagnosis of the range of emotional (better term than mental) illnesses is a specialist job as the meds are different.
The key thing to realise is that the meds do not cure depression/anxiety, they simply ease the thinking processes by rebalancing the chemical imbalance in the brain that characterises depression. It is the thinking that provides the cure. Think of it like painkillers for a pulled back muscle - without them, every movement is agony; with them movement is possible and it is the movement that leads to healing. Without the movement (thinking) you get stuck in a position unable to move
When stuck in a depression it feels like you are helpless and are driven by emotional turmoil. The key message from CBT is that emotions do not control thought but that thought controls emotion and that our emotional response to events is not to events themselves but to our interpretation of events. CBT works to access and help re-frame the "rules" we all unconsciously use to view the world and events. ie it is the combination of meds and therapy that heals - one without the other is often not enough.
Two recommendations:
1. Go to the Priory website and rummage around there are some excellent free links to self help resources
2 Get hold of a book "Depressive illness - the curse of the strong" by DR Tim Cantopher. No solutions or cures but it helps to understand the nature of the condition.
Good luck and remember at any one tome around 10% of folks will be suffering some degree of clinical depression and that around 25% of people will need some form of intervention at some stage in their life.
A final point - current recommendation is to stay on the meds for 6 months after the point you feel well again as this minimises to risk of the chemical imbalance re-establishing
Trite tho it is - a problem shared is a problem halved has some truth to it.
there is good advice on here - good luck with it.
It had severe anxiety a few years ago, resulted in a few ER trips, thought I was having a heart attack and I practically lived at my GP surgery. Guess I felt 'safe' there.
What I learned is that you have to consciously feed the anxiety for it to remain. Face it, accept the strange questioning thoughts and physical symptoms and over time it calmed down and went away. For around 2 years I got really into the anxiety, researched everything. It was when I stopped this that things got better and the anxiety went away. It is your self defense mechanism and will always protect you from your anxieties/fears; it is amaizing what constant excess adrenaline can do to you on a pshycological (sp?) and physically. When the fight or flight response is activated, you feel very nervous, have questioning thoughts and physical symptoms ( racing heart, sweating, etc). You are primed to fight or flee. But this is happening inappropriately because of your previous worrying/analysis.
It isn't easy, but it will get better. When you get better you will also realise the damaging effect that worrying nedlessly can have on you, whether it be work, relationships, etc.
A further comment, Anxiety and Depression are two sides of the same coin. In simple terms: Depressives look back and ruminate about things that have happened. Those with anxiety worry about things that might happen.
Most depressives will also show symptoms of anxiety but some with an anxiety disorder will not show full blown depressed symptoms.
Also been through the depression mill and like so many have said you will get to a better place. CBT and meds were the answer for me. Like PK99 I went to the Priory, in Glasgow though, and found them really good (other therapists are available). I found that I struggled to talk about my depression. Since the CBT I find it easier which helps me. I used to be ashamed about it but not any more. It will be obvious from the number of people who post on these threads with first hand experience of depression that it is pretty common. If you are able to talk to the people close to you you will probably find that some of them have had at least similar experiences to you. Its not actually that having a mountain bike makes you prone to depression although you could be forgiven for thinking that with so many people posting on th etopic. Good luck and I am sure that given time and effort you will find a way to be rid of your black dog.
This reminds me I still need to see someone myself.
Lethargy almost like ME, panic attacks and psychotic episodes are not depression in my book. Dunno in my case why they kept asking over and over even when I kept saying I wasn't depressed. Takes a long time for someone who didn't go to medical school to figure out caffeine caused psychosis exacerbated by PTSD and then an mTBI were my problem. Still, at least I know after 15 years to tell them to stick their drugs, that even then say weren't having the effects they expected.
I have nothing more to add in the advice stakes, it's all been said above. I too have been in the position of supporting someone who's having difficulties. The right drugs + CBT is the way forward I'd suggest. However, if your GP is just supplying the drugs, you should start insisting that you're referred for councilling or preferably CBT. If your GP doesn't seem interested, then change GP!
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