According to Zulu it was practised long before the Wehrmacht
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Kettling
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Posted 1 year ago #
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TooTall - Member
Can anyone see what I did there?
Yes I saw what you did there.
What does it mean ?
Posted 1 year ago # -
What does it mean ?
I've just given my dogs fish fingers for dinner and they loved them. I would recommend them as I had a few myself with some spicy potato wedges, peas, brocolli and carrots.......................................sorry, what was the question again?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ernie:
If you read the bit which you have conveniently ignored from grantways link, you will see that under "Exposure to vapours in high concentrations" it lists, among other things, difficulty in breathing, mental confusion, loss of consciousness, cardiac effects. Hardly a "harmless substance" to use on school children then.
The same would apply to Nitrogen or Oxygen in high concentrations, however we breath limited concentrations of both of those gases all day every day - would you call Nitrogen or Oxygen dangerous toxic substances that should not be used near children?
AS for your point regards "sprayed into someone's face" - can you produce any evidence of that, as the comments on here make allegations but the photo shows it being sprayed into the air!
Tootall, I'm an admirer of your work
Posted 1 year ago # -
What does it mean ?
I haven't got the time or the inclination old fella.
plus they was firing this halon in peoples faces
Any evidence of that? I have seen a pic of one being discharged over a head.
Posted 1 year ago # -
The same would apply to Nitrogen or Oxygen in high concentrations
Probably not a good idea to use nitrogen or oxygen in high concentrations either then
Ratty, you do realise you are arguing that spraying these fire extinguishers at kids doesn't have a negative effect on them don't you ?
Clearly it does, clearly it has an incapacitating effect, otherwise the coppers wouldn't use them. And if these toxic gases were an acceptable tool to use on kids, then they would be properly provided, with a proper means of dispensing, to police officers - they would not have to drag around fire extinguishers with them.
Most reasonable persons would not think that coppers using toxic chemicals for purposes which they are not intended for, in an uncontrolled manner, in uncontrolled doses, against kids, as a matter of routine, is both right and acceptable. Even the police authorities agree with that.
But as usual ratty, you have allowed your extreme right-wing reactionary views, get in the way of common-sense. So no change there then.
Posted 1 year ago # -
plus they was firing this halon in peoples faces
"Any evidence of that?"
Yeah his daughter apparently.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Clearly it does, clearly it has an incapacitating effect, otherwise the coppers wouldn't use them
Really, can you back up any claim that it is either
i) an incapacitant
ii) being used as such by the police?Or are you just making it up?
Now, the diversionary and shock effect of discharging a canister of harmless gas near a violent protester, might well be an effective use, and if used as an alternative to hitting someone with a stick, as a minimum use of force, then their use would be perfectly reasonable and proportionate...
Still, despite being unable to point me towards any harmful effect of the possible inhalation of a small concentration of an inert gas in an open air unrestricted environment, I'm sure you'll crack on with claims that the stuff is akin to using chemical weapons on kids, tell you what, maybe thats what Saddam had, Tony and George have found the missing WMD's in small green canisters hidden in a police station
Posted 1 year ago # -
clearly it has an incapacitating effect
Not outside a confined space. It scares and disorientates, as a CO2 extinguisher would. Police carry halon because it is the most effective at putting out fires like petrol on clothing.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Really, can you back up any claim that it is either
i) an incapacitant
ii) being used as such by the police?Incapacitating = To deprive of strength or ability; disable.
I'm assuming coppers aren't using them because they smell nice.
If there was no evidence that coppers were using them, then you certainly wouldn't be putting so much effort arguing how harmless they are.
I'm getting slightly bored now btw.
Posted 1 year ago # -
To avoid Kettling you need ...
1. The Tortoise - The 'testudo'
The tortoise formation was one of the prime examples of Roman ingenuity at warfare. When deployed in such a way, the legionaries became virtually invulnerable to arrows or objects dropped from defensive walls.
or
2. The Wedge
The wedge was an aggressive formation used to 'crack open' enemy lines. Relatively small groups of legionaries could form such a triangle and then drive their way into the enemy ranks. As more Roman soldiers reinforced the wedge from behind, the enemy line could be forced apart. As breaking the enemy's formation was very often the key to winning a battle, the wedge formation was vitally important battlefield tactic of the Roman army.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ernie, you're arguing out of your arse!
Now, are you going to accept that, short of sticking a mask over someones face and holding it there while they inhale the gas for half a minute, there is no possible toxic harmful effect of spraying someone with a Halon fire extinguisher, or do you want me to post the LC50 rodent data?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ernie, you're arguing out of your arse!
Presumably by that comment, you are suggesting that in your opinion, I don't normally do so.
Thanks ratty, I had no idea your opinion of me was that high. I feel touched.
Posted 1 year ago # -
I'm getting slightly bored now btw.
Then why carry on arguing with it then? Just ignore it. It'll go away eventually.
There's a nice thread about paint fumes going on. Maybe it'll have a wander over there, where it might actually be useful and helpful to others for a change instead of constantly arguing.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Then why carry on arguing with it then?
So I'm arguing am I ?
Well **** me, I'm now arguing without even realising it .........could it be more serious ?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I want to make a coffee table with some nice ply for the top. What sort of ply should I use? I like the sandwich layers effect around the edge. How to treat it so's it is lovely and smooth?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ernie, you're arguing out of your arse!
Presumably by that comment, you are suggesting that in your opinion, I don't normally do so.
It takes quite a remarkable thought process to reach that conclusion.
Brilliant!
Never mind plywood, MDF is where it's at and what did you have for dinner Elf?
Posted 1 year ago # -
Haaaang on... What's all this chat about halon extinguishers and their toxicity or lack of? If anyone was squirting halon around the question isn't whether it was in their face or over their heads, it's why they had the halon extinguisher in the first place since they've been all but outlawed and for good reasons
Posted 1 year ago # -
What sort of ply should I use? How to treat it so's it is lovely and smooth?
For you Elfinman, I would recommend a nice bit of 18 mill shuttering ply. And baby oil should do the trick.
Posted 1 year ago # -
No not MDF; you've got to paint it, and I actually like the edge of ply. You know, when it's rounded off and that, it looks really lovely.
Posted 1 year ago # -
You're right, I've got no taste, that is truly beautiful
Posted 1 year ago # -
Plywood is beautiful, and amazing things can be done using this process. MDF is good stuff, but as I said it needs painting.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Ernie; I was thinking of something a little thicker maybe, and high-quality. Is shuttering ply really up to the job? Bit of research suggests it's not the best quality.
I like the idea of plywood for the edge detail, as I've mentioned, and you can cut it into interesting shapes, easily.
How best to finish it? Baby oil you say? Is that for real or are you just being silly?
Some incredible stuff done with plywood:
Posted 1 year ago # -
I was joking about MDF but equally I had no idea what could be done with plywood - I really like those chairs and table ^^
Posted 1 year ago # -
Lefties lose argument. Lefties change topic quicksmart.
Marvellous.
Posted 1 year ago # -
No Flashy; no-one's 'won' or 'lost', they just have differing onions, which they won't change their positions on. The 'debate' was getting tedious and boring. Nothing positive was coming from it, so I decided to turn it into something nice and enriching instead. Because there's too much bickering on here.
Why do we have to argue all the time, when we live in a World surrounded by such beauty and wonderful creativity?
Now, you're a man of some taste and sophistication; what about your favourite materials/furniture design?
Posted 1 year ago # -
The 'debate' was getting tedious and boring.
You gave up/lost.
what about your favourite materials/furniture design?
I like classic stuff, to be honest. Most happy in a classic leather wingback with a decent glass and a good book.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Woody; have a Google for plywood furniture. Some amazing stuff.
Posted 1 year ago # -
EDIT: That was supposed to be taking the michael but was perhaps a tad too far. Withdrawn.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Plywood. It's so pliable isn't it?
Posted 1 year ago # -
it's why they had the halon extinguisher in the first place since they've been all but outlawed and for good reasons
'all but outlawed' - yes - and the police are allowed to have and use them, along with a few other people / places.
Posted 1 year ago # -
Posted 1 year ago # -
Elfinsafety - Member
....we live in a World surrounded by such beauty and wonderful creativity
Yup, I couldn't agree more.
I particularly like this little beauty :
I only wish I could reach out and caress it.
WTF is it btw ?
Posted 1 year ago # -
I don't know Ernie, it's just a pic I found to illustrate what I meant. I think it's part of a boat or something.
How best to finish the wood then? Oil? Varnish?
With a bit of luck there'll be a Elfindesign range of furniture at some stage....
Posted 1 year ago # -
Should David Linley be worried or are you going for a more comtemporary feel?
Posted 1 year ago #
Topic Closed
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