[Closed] JODA Truck driving WAAAAAAAAAY too close to cyclist

That's quite incredible but it's so incredible you wonder if the driver actually knows that he is there. There is no way that he can see him from his driving seat so you wonder if someone the cyclist had ended up in a position where he could be seen. Not deliberately, that would be mad, but without seeing what happened just before it's not quite so clear

There is a longer video that gives some idea of the lead up to it.
Hard to be sure, but from the traffic flow it looks like other vehicles had passed the cyclist already.

Hard to be sure, but from the traffic flow it looks like other vehicles had passed the cyclist already.

Is that Canal Rd Bradford ??,bit too close for comfort that !!!

Is a bit of an odd one, but either way the lorry is not crossing out of his lane at all so whether up the arse or moving alongside the bike, it's horribly close.

Mrs foo commutes that way by bike too, fortunately a new cycleway from Shipley bypasses that bit road, if you can find it!

here is no way that he can see him from his driving seat

Looks like the truck has a down-facing mirror stuck on the front so the driver [i]should[/i] be able to see that cyclist:

[img] [/img]

A driver posted his view of a similar mirror (in the [url=

FB comments[/url]):

[img] [/img]

He reckoned the cyclist [i]should[/i] have been clearly visibly in that mirror.

Could it be photo shopped ?

1. Why isn't the bike rider cracking his pants and trying to get on the the path.

2. I don't recall any news story's about a cyclist being killed to death by a lorry. The rate he was closing at it he wouldn't have missed him

3. Making the truck driver was just 'using the force'

[img] [/img]

Terrifying, hopefully they are forced to deal with it.

I complained about a courier firm for giving me an outrageous left hook recently; they honestly couldn't care less. By chance I saw the same driver today being pretty discourteous to a pedestrian with a pram who was hoping to cross in from of his (stationary) vehicle. No dice, he kept the lady and child waiting before enveloping them in a cloud of diesel fumes as he sped off. Shame on you, TNT. I'll take it straight to Twitter next time, with photos/videos.

^ I contacted Newcastle city council on one of their security trucks speeding on our road with a 20mph limit going around twice that or more.

Told them I knew it had GPS and telemetrics and to check them.

They emailed me back about a week later to say yes it was going faster than 30 in a 30 zone and the driver would be spoken to.

I told them it was a 20mph zone and I'll have your superiors contact details, thank you, as you don't know what you are talking about.

Received a personal letter of apology from someone higher up for the incident and the poor handling of it.

Good on you Quirrel!

By the way are you aware there is a [url= http://newcycling.org/event/campaign-and-friends-meeting/ ]meet-up of Newcastle Cycle Campaign, CTC, Sustrans and Re'cyke Y'Bike on next week (17th) at the Hub[/url]?

leffeboy - Member

That's quite incredible but it's so incredible you wonder if the driver actually knows that he is there. There is no way that he can see him from his driving seat so you wonder if someone the cyclist had ended up in a position where he could be seen. Not deliberately, that would be mad, but without seeing what happened just before it's not quite so clear
Posted 11 hours ago # Report-Post

The OP of the video is a pistonheads member. He reckoned the driver was laughing at the cyclist. It's on their 'dash cam idiots' thread.

Amazed people think this is unusual.

Amazed people are trying to say it's probably the cyclists fault.
Nah, always happens on these threads doesn't it.

Amazed people are trying to say it's probably the cyclists fault.

To be fair I don't think you can really tell in that video if the lorry came up behind the cyclist or if the cyclist undertook and put himself in a blind spot.

My gut says it is more likely to be the former, but I'm just as biased as a lorry driver, who would assume it was the latter.

The OP of the video is a pistonheads member. He reckoned the driver was laughing at the cyclist. It's on their 'dash cam idiots' thread.

Linky?

NVM found it: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1511801&mid=0&i=240

Amazed people are trying to [s]say it's probably the cyclists fault.[/s] apportion blame either way, on the basis of such limited information

Nah, always happens on these threads doesn't it.

Two things that suggest the driver is at fault:

1) the guy filming described the [i]"driver of truck looking down at cyclist grinning."[/i]

2) if the truck driver genuinely [i]doesn't[/i] know the cyclist is there then why is he driving at the speed of a bike when he is in a 40 limit with at least a 30 second gap in the traffic ahead of him?

[i]To be fair I don't think you can really tell in that video if the lorry came up behind the cyclist or if the cyclist undertook and put himself in a blind spot.[/i]

Exactly, and I don't presume to know either.. all I know is many lorries and cars go too close to cyclists on the road.

GrahamS - Member

Two things that suggest the driver is at fault:

1) the guy filming described the "driver of truck looking down at cyclist grinning."

2) if the truck driver genuinely doesn't know the cyclist is there then why is he driving at the speed of a bike when he is in a 40 limit with at least a 30 second gap in the traffic ahead of him?

Yep.

Good for you Quirrel, your post it prompted me to get back in touch with TNT to chase them up. I mentioned the latest incident with pram.

Back on topic, JODA have been quiet so far..

To be fair I don't think you can really tell in that video if the lorry came up behind the cyclist or if the cyclist undertook and put himself in a blind spot.

Having watched the longer video I can't see how the driver doesn't know that the cyclist is there.

There is such a gap between the lorry and cars in front that he must have been behind the cyclist for some time.

That and the original poster said the driver was "Grinning" (Though it's not caught on camera).

Amazed people are trying to say it's probably the cyclists fault.

I don't think anyone has done that have they? Just saying nothing is conclusive from the original (very short) video.

According to [url=

"tn":"R9"}]a

FB commenter who works for Joda[/url]:

[i]"Well I've just had the facts,all I'm gunna say is this video doesn't show all the facts!....you've obviously never been on canal road in Bradford at rush hour!..."[/i]

Not sure what that means, but I can understand if he doesn't want to clarify on social media when the company hasn't issued a statement.

don't think anyone has done that have they

Well, ok "maybe" at fault. That's how I read them anyway.

[i] it's not impossible for the cyclist to have been heading up the inside[/i]

[i] so you wonder if someone the cyclist had ended up in a position where he could be seen.[/i] (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean in English.)

Actually to me, it's obvious that the truck had caught up with the bike and was pissed off that he couldn't get past.
I'd put money on that. That is how people drive!
There's no gap for the cyclist to have gone up the inside.

No indicator either.

According to a FB commenter who works for Joda:

Hmm, given his earlier comments I'm less than convinced of his lack of bias, even if he does claim to have the "facts" (from one side). As pointed out, the truck has a mirror which the driver must be able to see the cyclist in, the driver wouldn't be leaving the big gap if the cyclist wasn't there, therefore he must know the cyclist is there. It doesn't really make any difference how the cyclist got there in that case.

The facts are a truck was about as close as you could get to a bike and remains so for several seconds despite clear road ahead of the cyclist. The possible explanations do not really include one which allows the truck driver to emerge without severe criticism in my view.

"didn't see him" ->

Didn't check mirrors, or mirrors not adjusted properly. The footage is long enough to include a time gap which you might expect a routine mirror check.

"did see him" ->

Playing roulette with a person's life.

The clear road ahead is the clincher imo, the truck driver very likely knows the cyclist is there.

Even if the bike had performed a poor move further up the road or they otherwise had some off-cam 'previous', it hardly gives a person a right to extract punishment, especially by threatening him with his life.

Even if the bike had performed a poor move further up the road or they otherwise had some off-cam 'previous', it hardly gives a person a right to extract punishment, especially by threatening him with his life.

Was going to post words to this effect.

If the driver knows he is there there then is no excuse for that behaviour, no matter how or why the cyclist got there you do not put someone's life in danger like that.

If the driver doesn't know he is there then this either suggests poor observation/negligence, or if we give him the benefit of the doubt, at the very least goes to highlight how inappropriate such vehicles are for mixing in urban traffic, with cyclists, pedestrians and other vulnerable squishies.

Actually I'm guessing the "facts" the FB bloke has are something to do with the cyclist upsetting the driver, which therefore gave the driver the "right" to do that because the cyclist "was asking for it"

I see Joda Freight are getting some nasty reviews on their facebook page.
Not sure I agree with that, especially when we clearly don't know all the facts, but I suppose it at least makes them aware of it.

Difficult to see how the driver wouldn't have been aware of the cyclist to me.

Anyone criticising others for attempting to blame the cyclist, but then going ahead and blaming the lorry driver are just rank hypocrites, who show themselves as unable to be objective due to their predisposed opinions. The only FACT is that there is not enough information available from the footage to allow a decent conclusion to be made. Speculation either way is just that, speculation. Scenarios that put the cyclist at fault, the driver at fault, or (shock, horror) a shared culpability scenario, are all entirely possible. But no, this is highhorsetrackworld, isn't it... 😆

The only FACT is that there is not enough information available from the footage to allow a decent conclusion to be made.

Id like to see someone define under what possible circumstances the lorry driver driving like that can be considered being reasonable?

The cyclist could have queried the parentage of the driver's first born, it still doesn't give the driver permission to drive like an arse.

I've had similar with a coach in Cambridge before - could feel the heat from the engine as he was so close. A driver in traffic on the other side of the road was waving frantically at him to back off, needless to say he didn't. I've rarely pedalled as fast as that, once the parked cars were cleared and he went past me it was quite a relief!

[i]Anyone criticising others for attempting to blame the cyclist, but then going ahead and blaming the lorry driver are just rank hypocrites, who show themselves as unable to be objective due to their predisposed opinion[/i]

🙄 Not [i]opinions[/i]. [i]Experience[/i].

Not opinions. Experience.

Indeed. As always it's not a symmetrical situation. Cyclists don't endanger the lives of truck drivers. Nor is there equal likelihood of either party being at fault based on what does happen on the roads. Sure there are some idiot cyclists, but actually a lot, lot more careless drivers.

Though most fundamentally, what most of us are pointing out is that the truck driver must have seen the cyclist. Given that is the case, the truck driver is quite clearly at fault, whatever went on before the start of the video. No speculation at all needed to determine that.

Scenarios that put the cyclist at fault

Go on then. What scenario can you think of where the driver hasn't seen the cyclist (despite the mirror he has pointing that way) yet is still driving along at the speed of the cyclist with a large gap in front. Or were you suggesting a scenario where the cyclist is at fault for the truck driving that close despite having seen him?

If you separate the reason and the action, and drop all the speculation you're left with only one fact

1. that was dangerous

Argue the toss about why it happened all you want, but that's what we know. We also know that there are very few possible situations where that ^ could happen in which the driver of the lorry could not have removed that danger if he had wanted to.

The only possble one I can think of is if the cyclist crept up the inside while the lorry was stationary/slow moving, and was in the drivers blind spot the entire time, and none of his mirrors allowed him to see him, and that there is some other explanation for the clear road ahead of them.

If all of that happened as above* then as I said earlier, all that does is demonstrate how unsafe such vehicles are when mixing with more vulnerable road users.

*which seems unlikely given the balance of probabilities, experience, and the comments from the source of the video.

Any coincidence that JODA in Spanish is, more or less, "**** him"?

Not opinions. [s]Experience.[/s][b]bias based on very personal experience of different incidents, with a different roads, different vehicles and different people.[/b]

Edit; Amedias is bang on.

so you wonder if someone the cyclist had ended up in a position where he could be seen. (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean in English.)

Looking at the longer version of the video it looks like there may have been a widening of the road next to the house on the right at the end of the video. If the truck was stationary at that point out would have been tempting to run up the inside and then the truck might have started moving

But to be clear we don't know and the only reason for speculating is that the situation looks so mad it is worth long at to see if there is anything to be learned

Yeah, that's invaluable in this instance, ta.

More useful than your bias I'd suggest. Particularly given it looks like lots of other roads in this country, lots of other trucks in this country etc. What have you spotted which makes you think this incident is in some way special and different to what normally happens?

whatever the bias, personal or otherwise, lets break this down

-> that was dangerous, would you disagree?

I'm going to assume you do agree, because quite frankly I don't asee how anyone could not consider that dangerous.

so, that leaves 2 possibilities

1. He knew the cyclist was there = deliberately dangerous
2. He didn't know the cyclist was there = accidentally dangerous

1 is not justifiable under any circumstances, EVER.
2 is barely justifiable, and the only situation where it would be involves a disproportionately large number of improbable events to have occurred, however, improbable things happen all the time so it's not outside the realms of possibility.

We don't know the full facts, as we rarely do in these cases... I have my own opinions and bias going on here, but I'm trying very hard to leave them out and not make any judgements based on them.

More useful than your bias I'd suggest