I actually feel sorry for the people for who the pursuit of materialistic goals drives them – what sad empty lives they lead

Don’t worry TJ they’ll be happy and no doubt think you are some sort of sad misguided grumbleton who’s only happy when he can have a good moan about others

I don’t think a lot of them are happy – I see a lot of angst and stress in them.

Again, better if read in a Yoda voice. Amazingingly wise stuff…

…although you might wanna change the word see to sense for effect and clarity.

If Richard Branson, or Alan Sugar, or similar came on here decrying ownership of material possessions – and then backed up their rant with moral evidence of their beliefs, then I might sit up and take note.

Sadly, as it is, those that moan most about materialism, generally tend to be those that have the least means to obtain said material possessions, ergo it comes across as bitterness, or self justification of a meagre existance that one has become saddled with.

I read that as rather pompous, but it was my initial thoughts, so I CBA to go back and edit it.

People can be well off, have a life full of material goods and also fulfillment of various natures and be very happy TJ and I’m not talking about myself – I’m horrendously cash poor as it happens.

I’m also a bit pissed, so not even sure if I’m making sense 😉

Does nealglover ever post anything positive or is it all just ranting insults?

I’ve helped a fair few people on here with information on insulating hard to treat properties way beyond “normal” standards. which is what I do for a living.

Both on the forum, and via email. Free advice from professional tradesman isn’t always easy to come by.

Oddly enough, helping them to reduce their bills and use less energy.

I just don’t like people ranting about things they don’t seem to know a lot about.

I mean, come on. “seismic activity that’s knocking the earth off it’s Axis” ???!

That’s believable eh ?

nealglover – Member

I mean, come on. “seismic activity that’s knocking the earth off it’s Axis” ???!

Ssh, I’m still hoping he’s going to try to prove that.

buzz-lightyear – Member

Kutla gonna pop I reckon. Could be quite disruptive.

Agreed and very soon.

I think the remark about competing, winning and breeding in our local tribe/environment is the reason we fail to respond to global environmental/resource problems. When the resources get really scarce, tribes will do what they always do – go to war.

My questions to keasae are:

“How much wealth (for all in society, without exception) is sufficient?”[/quote]

Not all in society could be part of a movement that was dedicated to improving circumstances and enhancing quality of life for those involved.

Some would rather argue or fight, than work together to accomplish goals, these disruptive elements could not be involved if any endevour is to succeed. All involved would need to agree to share what is gained from mutual cooperation, equally.

“How should we legally re-distribute wealth and opportunity evenly?”

You are thinking in terms of society as a whole, there is no hope for society as a whole in our culture. Not without great individual change and the average person searching deep inside themselves is not gonna happen.

Individuals should be paid based on what they contribute to the collective group and how much reasources they can aquire, cut out the rich and powerful and you have a lot more to go around, do you not ❓

“Without capital-rich individuals to invest, how will expensive but important developments and projects be funded?”

If we only invest our resources in companies that we have some measure of control over and that are willing to show us where the money is going, then we can fund more and more with our own money.

With effective efficient management of resources a little can go a long way, do not be fooled into thinking that how it is now, is how it must be, every small business, every sole trader, everyone who has taken very little and created something, a company, a beautiful garden, developed a property, has the ability to manage resources and see growth and development, however those that are in charge of our resources, have shown us time and time again, they do not posses this ability.

The majority of a people will always have power, the question is will we choose to exercise that power.

Now is the time for a new way of thinking and viewing our existence, if not now, then when ❓ and if not us ❓ then who ❓

The earths axis has been altered, it is no longer on the same axis that it was, hence why I said that it has been knocked of it’s axis.

http://articles.cnn.com/2011-03-12/world/japan.earthquake.tsunami.earth_1_tsunami-usgs-geophysicist-quake?_s=PM:WORLD

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1365821/Japan-earthquake-tsunami-Earths-day-length-shortened-axis-tilted-25cm.html

Do you not understand that the earth’s axis isn’t fixed? It varies by a little over 2 degrees over its cycle (an average of around 5cm per year, by my back-of-envelope maths). Then there are assorted smaller fluctuations, which have a larger effect but cancel out over a shorter time.

This is just something that planets do. The earth hasn’t been “knocked off its axis”, it has just changed its axis by a tiny amount, which is nothing out of the ordinary at all, and is just a small part of the greater fluctuations in tilt.

(just for points of comparison- a 1 degree shift is around 110km. The estimates of the movement caused by the quake vary a lot but call it 20cm for ease of maths- that’s 1/5000th of a degree, less than the short-term changes to earth’s axial tilt caused by tidal forces from the moon)

Or in other words- don’t worry about it. You won’t read in the papers tomorrow “Moon pulls earth off its axis”.

Over the years I’ve become a great believer that there’s a simple biological/evolutionary reason behind just about every human behavioural trait (except crying, never have understood the biological purpose of that – but then I’m a man 😀 ). So, I think these guys hit the nail on the head as an explanation for our current materialistic tendencies:-

we have a genetic hunter gatherer instinct, seeing as we don’t hunt for food or shelter we have to fulfil that need by buying stuff

For the entire history of the human race it has been about being better than others in order to survive and ensure your children thrive

However, understanding where those traits came from, and justifying their continued proliferation in the face of mounting evidence that its destroying our planet, are two different things.

Think about another good biological trait ingrained in our genes – the propensity for our bodies to crave sugars and carbohyrates and lay them down in fat stores. This was a successful trait when our ancesters didn’t know where their next meal was coming from, but in todays society of plenty it backfires on us and actually leads to lower quality and quantity of life. So, sometimes we’re smart enough to recognise and manage our primevel instincts, or allow governments to regulate us for the greater good (think smoking, speeding, age of legal consent etc.).

Why can’t we do the same with our self destructive impulses to buy more stuff, and go to war over resources we don’t really need? Instead we just throw up our hands and say – its human nature!

Then there’s the question of why people continue with their (self) destructive behaviours as evidence mounts around them that its trashing the planet. Sue-W makes an excellent point about people’s inability to link action and consequence, but there’s more to it than that…

Humans have an amazing ability to look on the positive side of things – and again its a good evolutionary trait, as if many of us knew what was really in store for us for the rest of our lives, we probably wouldn’t bother getting out of bed in the morning 🙁 . So, we are overly optomistic about our/politicians/others abilities to get us out of this mess!

The human brain is also very bad at weighing up risks far in the future, or events that could be catastrophic – so that’s a double whammy for us reacting logically to something like climate change, which is both. No, our brain is wired to concentrate on where the next meal is coming from, making sure we’re not the next meal for some pre-historic carnivore, and whether that girl (or boy) we just met fancies us. It make sense in evolutionary terms – if we all sat around worrying about the end of the world coming it would paralyse us and we wouldn’t do any of the things necessary to get through the next few days and weeks – like eat, sleep, wash. By the way – this has happened to Philosophers throughout history, they’ve literally worried themselves to death!

So, I’ve huge sympathy for Kaesae’s point of view – but I have to temper this with the thought that if all he does is assuage his guilt momentarily by posting on the forum, and then gets on with the kind of lifestyle he berates, then it’s all a bit hollow. I think he’s pointed out the problem well, but now it’s time for him to say what he personally is going to do about it – or is it everybody else who has to change? 😉 Sorry if that sounds a bit harsh, but he did start the thread…

Kaesae’s a nice guy and all and I’ve bought stuff from him but I do have to assume he makes a profit (beyond that required to live) from his bearings and tools and I bet doesn’t ask about workers conditions and factory envrironmental policies in China (I assume this is where his stuff is made).

TandemJeremy – Member
I don’t think a lot of them are happy – I see a lot of angst and stress in them.

Posted 10 hours ago # Report-Post

Anyway; got to go and evict the widow from the second flat I own. I will have mobile internet with me in case anybody is wrong/needs advice on employment law.

Nice one Kaesae this has turned into a really interesting thread (get’s another coffee). I think at some point we all question the selfishness of our species. I’m not reading all those reports though Sue, I’ve only got so much coffee! 😯

kaesae – Member
No need for flowery words or long drawn out explanations, seizmic activity is increasing

I know the data is only up to 2010 but TBH I am more inclined to trust the BGS & NERC for good analysis of seismic data. A lot of people looked at the raw data and say “look at the figures we are having way more quakes than back in the 70’s, without noticing there are more measuring stations with highly accurate equipment these days.

Number of earthquakes with a magnitude of 7 or greater over the last two decades
http://www.bgs.ac.uk/research/earthquakes/earthquakeActivity.html
This is not to say I think we can carry on as a species at our present rate of resource consumption.

Here’s a nice little video for you that explains it all.

Richard WIlkinson talk

The trouble is that we are constantly brainwashed by the advertising industry to equate what we own with who we are. Breaking that link is the first step to getting out of the mess we are making for oursleves.

Which enduro bike for £3.5k? My existing bike is two years old, extinct…

This thread needs Fight Club quotes
http://www.quotegarden.com/bk-fc.html

It used to be enough that when I came home angry and knowing that my life wasn’t toeing my five-year plan, I could clean my condominium or detail my car. Someday I’d be dead without a scar and there would be a really nice condo and car. ~Chuck Palahniuk, Fight Club, Chapter 6

The trouble is that we are constantly brainwashed by the advertising industry to equate what we own with who we are.

Environment aside, that’s the nub of it for me. We are essentially defined by our possessions. The industry doesn’t need to brainwash us anymore because we absolutely unequivocally believe that possessions make us better people.

Are you applying that “we” word to everyone eveywhere or just those in, say, this country…?

Are you applying that “we” word to everyone eveywhere or just those in, say, this country…?

I’m sure common sense can enable you to answer that yourself.

Judging by the way the developing world seeks to emulate western consumerism the answer must be everyone everywhere.

Judging by the way the developing world seeks to emulate western consumerism the answer must be everyone everywhere.

seeks?

Or “has been forced”

Personally, I absolutely unequivocally believe that you know little of people’s lives as a whole and are making a very rash and sweeping generalisation. This thread will be full of them if we keep trying to blame global warming/climate change/armageddon/world’s end/fall of western society/fall of humanity on one single issue. I personally believe overpopulation is a major part but I doubt folk will stop breeding anytime soon…

Seeks.

It’s probably too late to worry about it. Humans are likely to be extinct within 500 years, although it’s a moot point as to whether the planet will become too hostile for their survival or they will die in a nuclear conflict triggered by someone’s desire to control what remains of the oil/fresh water/rare earth metals. Then evolution, which responds to stress, will begin to create new species to fill the gaps, which will develop, thrive or die out, until one becomes dominant and…

Happy New Year

I personally believe overpopulation is a major part but I doubt folk will stop breeding anytime soon…

Global birth rates have been falling for at least the last 50 years.

Here’s a nice little video for you that explains it all

Nice one rightplacerighttime.

My personal favourite about the dangers of rampant consumerism is “The Story of Stuff” – couple of years old now, but still hits the target like a laser guided smart bomb…

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLBE5QAYXp8[/video]

There won’t be a total extinction but global population may well fall back to pre-industrial levels

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kryjFjcRNMs[/video]

I’m crying now.

Thinking about it, how can Michael Jackson make songs like this then go and take 800 year old stone carvings from Buddhist temples in Thailand to put on his stoopid ranch.

EDIT I wear 10 year old pants and only buy shit when other shit breaks

Global birth rates have been falling for at least the last 50 years.

Don’t take this with the wrong attitude but can you produce any evidence of that…? I’m genuinely interested because, as written, I believe this to be a problem and it seems foolish for me to talk shit in debates with my friends if I don’t have a leg to stand on.

I wear 10 year old pants…

TMI

Seeks.

We’ll have to disagree on that one.

Although obviously western culture does look enticing.

Whilst his ‘rant’ does have it failings (and a whiff of hipocrisy) I’m inclinded to agree with the OP..

Over the past year my spending has got out of control, I now own more bikes (including a new motorbike) that I never use because I’m having to work all the time to pay for stuff. I hate it, its like its smothering me and the only time my mind is taken off it is when I go on CRC or down my LBS and buy something else.

We’re sold this image of success based on the amount of objects we own, and the grading of that success is down to the quality of said objects. You own a new car? Nice! You own a new BMW? Even better!

Someone on here posted about a bloke they’d had stay with them who was travelling the world on his bike. I got the impression he had very little in the way of ‘stuff’ and yet the poster stated he was the most contented man he’d ever met. I would love to be that bloke.

Fight Club has plenty of awesome quotes – the one that stands out for me is

‘You’re not the car you drive’…..

Don’t take this with the wrong attitude but can you produce any evidence of that…? I’m genuinely interested because, as written, I believe this to be a problem and it seems foolish for me to talk shit in debates with my friends if I don’t have a leg to stand on.

World bank report

Page 18

Funnily enough population growth came up in conversation at the pub last night and someone who usually knows told me that pretty soon (if not already) we will be dipping below replacement rate in terms of birth rate. The main reason for overall continued world population growth rate at the moment is people living longer, not numbers being born.

Individuals should be paid based on what they contribute to the collective group and how much reasources they can aquire,

Isn’t this the curent situation?

Companies pay individuals according to that individuals worth to the company. Individuals support companies to the extent that the company provides something the individual wants. Therefore, people are paid based on what they contribute to the group, and aquire resources as a result. Done!

Companies pay individuals according to that individuals worth to the company. Individuals support companies to the extent that the company provides something the individual wants. Therefore, people are paid based on what they contribute to the group, and aquire resources as a result. Done!

I think he’s indicating more at the fact that footballers get paid more than nurses…

I think he’s indicating more at the fact that footballers get paid more than nurses…

I think that when a collective group of 22 nurses can satisfy the needs of 60,000 people on a Saturday afternoon week in week out, then yes, they deserve a pay rise.

Someone on here posted about a bloke they’d had stay with them who was travelling the world on his bike. I got the impression he had very little in the way of ‘stuff’ and yet the poster stated he was the most contented man he’d ever met. I would love to be that bloke.

This makes a lot of sense.

My wife’s friends & family in Brazil have very little in the way of money or posessions, yet they were some of the most content & generous people I’ve had the privilege of spending time with.

Being content with very little, or being content with your ‘lot’ is a good place to be in my opinion.

when a collective group of 22 nurses can satisfy the needs of 60,000 people on a Saturday afternoon week in week out, then yes, they deserve a pay rise

?

Interesting interpretation of ‘needs’ there.

Nobody ‘needs’ football.

Or perhaps next time you’re in hospital you’ll be happy if 22 footballists perform the operation?