*sniggers*
Chat Forum
[closed]
Goodbye BA
-
Posted 2 years ago #
-
Interestingly unionised workplaces have better terms and conditions of employment ( better holiday pay / sick pay and better rates of pay), you are less likely to be unfairly dismissed or victimised and less likely to be made redundant.
So they would be the mines, the shipyards, British Leyland, British Steel, the trainmakers, the UK electronics manufacturers...
Hardly any redundancies there then. Not arguing that union support is a handy thing to an individual, but the knobs at BA are looking at a fast way to join the dole queue.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Business' tend to get the Unions they deserve, IME
Pretty much spot on. P*ss poor British management in action.
Hardly any redundancies there then. Not arguing that union support is a handy thing to an individual, but the knobs at BA are looking at a fast way to join the dole queue.
Well some of the workforce in this country aren't meek and want to fight for their jobs, some of them will end up on the dole, this is action is merely part of the bargaining process to minimise the numbers.
The effing union jobsworths are sticking their oar in, doing it over Christmas deliberately to **** up people's lives. Selfish ****s.
I would have thought that you of all people would appreciate the selfish nature of these people.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Unite claims the changes affect contractual terms and conditions. We believe they do not. The union failed to gain an injunction to prevent their introduction, but a full court hearing to settle the contractual question has been set for February 2010.
We do not understand why Unite is threatening you with disrupted travel plans now over an issue that the courts are preparing to resolve in a few weeks.
This is from the BA statement here, now if thats true then the union needs a proper kicking, I think they reckon they are going to lose
Posted 2 years ago # -
BA cabin staff are already the best paid in the industry
Really!!???!!! No really!!??!!
Other half on a good month with lots of nights away brings home £1500 max. I'd hate to be in those other companies if this is the best paid. Or is it some minority to which you refer.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Don't forget CFH pines for the days of keeping the proles down and working them into an early grave.
Miss the knout do you?
I bet he misses Droit de seigneur as well
Posted 2 years ago # -
I'm with the strikers.
If they don't like the terms of their employment and they think that the strike will improve their T&Cs, then it's their option to withdraw their labour. Good luck to them.
It's a shame for anyone who has their travel plans messed up, but I think there are loads of regular people in regular jobs who are looking at bankers, MPs etc and thinking "hang on, how come these to$$ers get to award themselves whatever rates of pay they feel like, and the likes of us (in normal jobs) get told that we have to do more work for less pay?"
Ultimately I think it is very bad news for BA, but then again the whole airline industry is up the creek. The idea of unlimited future growth of air travel is a joke. Maybe better now than later - it's just facing up to the harsh reality.
Posted 2 years ago # -
ah now i know why i have a pikey van ,and stay in england,if maggie was in power would it make any difference.get back to work B.A .
Posted 2 years ago # -
For all the sympathy me or anyone has with the strikers, what good is it going to do when they are getting paid £29K vs an industry average of £14K in a heavy loss making business. Tough choices for all involved but to suggest BA have much of an option other than reduce pay or reduce headcount is fantasy. I know people there who have been constructively managed out, uncompetitively paid, or given 10% pay cuts in the last few years, none of them flight crew, but why should they be immune?
Posted 2 years ago # -
cabin crew have absolutely no idea how good they have it. In a country where virtually every sector is having at least a pay freeze, most cabin crew are being offered pay increases of between 5-7% for both this year and next.
Junior cabin crew earn 25-35k depending on the routes they travel. CSDs get upwards of 50k. It's not just industry leading, it's bonkers. Have you ever wondered why BA crew tend to be a bit older? because THEY KNOW THEY ARE ON A BLOODY GOOD DEAL, not just a good deal, a great one. I worked for BA for a while, and it was by far the best company I have worked for in terms of conditions, pay, perks etc.It's sad to see a company being destroyed by the staff who it has looked after for decades.
idiots.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've still got over a third of a million air miles can't have them going down yet!
Posted 2 years ago # -
After seeing firsthand the way my own union is misrepresented in the papers and television news, I for one will never, ever trust the media's view of what this dispute is about.
If the staff have decided to take action in this financial (and anti-union ) climate, then there's probably a damn good reason for it.Posted 2 years ago # -
Or its sad to see a faithful and hard-working workforce being fecked over by the bosses who wont take any share of the pain themselves?
Posted 2 years ago # -
TandemJeremy - Member
Or its sad to see a faithful and hard-working workforce being fecked over by the bosses who wont take any share of the pain themselves?
a third of managers accepting redundancy
7000 employees accepting pay cuts
pilots agree to pay cut
engineers willing to accept some change
I just don't see why crew should watch everyone else suffer.
Posted 2 years ago # -
They said on R4 on the way home that about 92% of the BA cabin crew who poled, voted for strike action... that says to me that the BA management have done something to really piss them off!
So, does anyone actually know what the strike is all about? Or is everyone just jumping to conclusions and slamming the union? Except TJ of course...
Posted 2 years ago # -
the point being that in a unionised workplace with collective bargaining you have a better chance of getting a share of the pie than without unionisation.
Since BA made a record loss of £292 million last year I make that a profit share of -£7500 per worker. Well done.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I fly a lot, mainly with BA and their cabin crew certainly don't warrant higher pay than those in competitor airlines. It may well be that other crews are underpaid but if your a BA crew member it's time to realise that you simply have not been providing the level of service that warrants higher pay than crew on other airlines.
On European flights the service in the air is no better than with Easyjet ( it's on the ground where Easyjet are poor in relation to BA not once your on the plane) and on long haul I've flown with BA, Emerates and Cathay Pacific in the last year and BA come last in last place in terms of service.
Again it's not really that they are ooverpaid it's that others are doing better for less. I take it that everyone supporting the strikers on here only uses bike shops and never uses CRC and Wiggle etc and is happy to pay more for the same or often worse service. Oh and has never of course ever taken a cheap flight.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Or is everyone just jumping to conclusions and slamming the union?
Nah, that's pretty much what I was about. I think I was abused by a Union boss at some point in my childhood. Their angry militant faces really wind me up.
It's a business lads, get used to it, it's for making money for the shareholders. It's not being run for your benefit.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Oh I'm jumping to conclusions as well. Just arguing devils advocate really.
However as far as I can see the management want to impose changes to pay and conditions without negotiation. The Union are willing to meet to negotiate, the management are not.
~So the workers have a choice - accept changes that are significantly detrimental or threaten to strike in order to force management to negotiate which management are refusing to do.
At this point it is only a threat of a strike that management could avert by agreeing to negotiate - not to submit but merely to negotiate. 90% vote in favour on 80% turnout says a lot
Posted 2 years ago # -
I take it that everyone supporting the strikers on here only uses bike shops and never uses CRC and Wiggle etc and is happy to pay more for the same or often worse service. Oh and has never of course ever taken a cheap flight.
I actually have a bike mechanic on my staff who custom makes my bikes in a machine shop and of course I have a private jet with 3 crews working in shifts to make sure it's on standby 24/7.
Which of course still has no bearing on the situation.
If the workers aren't happy they have every right to walk. I'm sure they know the situation the company faces better than anyone.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Brinkmanship tactics. But not likely to win many friends or to enhance the reputation of unions. And, as with the Post Office, not really the smartest move to be making when the company you are working for is in deep doodoo financially. Well done chaps - let's have a strike where we can press for maintaining our wages and fail to see that we could take the company down and there will then be no wages at all. Strategic thinking there.
Cabin crew and unions I applaud your foresight and commitment to the uk economy.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I've used BA many times over the last 30 years for long haul flights, and since about 1990 it has been a last resort.
There has been something wrong with that company for a long time from the customer viewpoint, and that's got to be coming from the top.
Posted 2 years ago # -
as with the Post Office, not really the smartest move to be making when the company you are working for is in deep doodoo financially.Well done chaps - let's have a strike where we can press for maintaining our wages and fail to see that we could take the company down and there will then be no wages at all. Strategic thinking there.
Cabin crew and unions I applaud your foresight and commitment to the uk economy.
Curious that a number of half-wits here attack the unions for this when the responsibility firmly lies in the boardrooms of BA and royal mail. But of course British management is never at fault for anything.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Interesting article in The Times this morning.
A study of strikes in the 1980s by economists from the London School of Economics found that the average increase in annual pay produced by strikes was only 0.3 per cent, while the average strike lasted 11 days. Each strike day, of course, costs the worker a day’s wages. The study concluded that the wage gain would have to be retained by individual employees for 30 years simply for them to break even. Not working, in other words, doesn’t work.
Posted 2 years ago # -
i have nothing to add other than that on the way home from Umerica the very generous and gracious cabin lady person gave me 2 gin and tonics and 2 mini bottles of wine.
This coupled with the various in flight entertainment options meant i had a rather excellent time in a BA plane.
Cheap too. Only £469 return to SF.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The "half-wits" are the cabin crews who can't understand the following.
BA need to cut their staff costs to remain competitive. They need to make redundancies or reduce wages to do this. This is basically simple mathematics.
Its symptomatic of how comfortable we are in this country that people expect to turn up at the end of the month with their hand out, receive what they determine to be a fair wage, and blame "the management" if things go wrong.
BA staff are facing the kind of cuts that have been going on in the private sector for months, its hard to feel sorry for them when there are 1700 people on Teeside who are really suffering.
Posted 2 years ago # -
The only union I have experience was of Unison. I found them to be blood sucking, whining, ineffectual parasites.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Shandy,
Its symptomatic of how comfortable we are in this country that people expect to turn up at the end of the month with their hand out, receive what they determine to be a fair wage, and blame "the management" if things go wrong.
I think it's more symptomatic of how comfortable some people are in this country, that they expect other people to knuckle under and do as they're told when they don't want to.
The cabin crew might regret what they're doing later, but really it's up to them isn't it? If you're not one of them, then who are you to decide if its a "fair" wage or if they are being treated "fairly" by management - these things are totally subjective - there is no right answer except for the individuals concerned.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Other half on a good month with lots of nights away brings home £1500 max.
That's a pretty reasonable income for a "non-specialist" job (not requiring a technical qual etc), and since nights away etc are part of the job description I'm not sure why they'd be part of the thought process.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Either we have a substantial number of captains of industry on here, or a lot more blinkered Thatcherite lickspittles than I previously realised.
I wonder which.
Why do people in this country look at an industrial dispute and automatically assume that it's the obstructive and protectionist union - and not that the management might be taking liberties?
Why does the involvement of a union dehumanise the individuals concerned? Can't you understand that they're just ordinary people like you who are trying to protect the terms and conditions of their employment?
Didn't anybody see the Panorama documentary on the Royal Mail last night? Didn't that give anybody a moment's thought that maybe unions aren't all commie troublemakers and maybe workers do care more about the jobs and services they do for you than their management does?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Aren't we all supposed to be staying off aeroplanes because it's killing the planet?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Why do people in this country look at an industrial dispute and automatically assume that it's the obstructive and protectionist union - and not that the management might be taking liberties?
Very good question, that I don't know the answer to. But it seems a fairly common assumption across the board, I wonder where that image comes from.
Posted 2 years ago # -
I don't think you are quite correct there. I suspect that what people are reacting to is the idea that the union are suggesting striking at the very time when business is peaking and that while there may be a dispute with the management and issues in the company, the union feel it is quite acceptable to hold passengers to ransom over it. They don't seem to be showing too much consideration to the travelling public by calling for a strike. Or did I miss something?
And will the union executive be forgoing their pay as part of the dispute as well? I think we all know the answer to that one as well.
Is the mangement of the company good? Quite probably not, to have got themselves into their current state and perhaps theirs is not the best business model for these times (they have historically targetted business passengers as their prime market and now suffer as business flyers choose non premium fares for travel) and maybe they are too slow in moving. So now they are trying to work it out and maintain the business to keep people in jobs. And a large percentage of the company is going with them.
As far as a flying experience I have flown BA a number of times and they are still amongst the best of the airlines I have flown with. Those that think they suck should try a carrier like United or Ryanair.
Posted 2 years ago # -
So it's O.K. to fly then, is it?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Why do people in this country look at an industrial dispute and automatically assume that it's the obstructive and protectionist union - and not that the management might be taking liberties?
It's a well documented fact that BA are fairly seriously in trouble. The majority of other sectors of the business have realised this, and actions have been taken accordingly by the means of redundancies, pay cuts and changes of employment terms.
Of course, in reality, no one wants a pay cut, or any change of working environment to their detriment but faced with the very real prospect of that or the other option of no job at all, I know what I would be doing.
Cabin Crew are fairly ostricised within the company anyway, this is just driving the wedge deeper. From the public's perspective its different to the recent RM strike, as they can, and already have voted with their feet.
Posted 2 years ago #
Topic Closed
This topic has been closed to new replies.
