+1 edukator.

Johnson has always been a serial bullshitter

Re-using the 350m lie is shameful, but the hardcore Brexies are doubling down on their lies as the promised land is turning out to be not so wonderful after all.

The utter humiliation of May should also be considered as Johnson is so blatantly positioning himself before the party conference.

Repeating the £350m is inexcusable and shameful. Bojo has zero credibility

Edukator, given that you post as many, if not more, false statements than Jambas on this issue, your comments re integrity, value.and insulting have as much credibility as a Bojo column. No smiley required.

Shame Jambas feels the way he does and why that wasn’t dealt with.

Iirc Jamba also said that figure was bs, but that the number was irrelevant, even beneficial if inflated, as it kept everyone talking about it during the campaign.
Guess that’s the problem with making stuff up. You have to remember it all or you get caught out.

Well that was true. The Brexshiteers controlled the narrative much better than we did. Sad that the core was a series of lies and that we struggled to contradict them

What a crap job we did – didn’t learn from the Indy vote where even bigger BS almost won the day.

One thing jezza actually can do if his heart is in the message. Not in this case obviously

Well that was true. The Brexshiteers controlled the narrative much better than we did. Sad that the core was a series of lies and that we struggled to contradict them

Not really and, like with the leave campaign, saying it over and over doesn’t make it true.

Remain had to sell the current deal with the few concessions that CMD had won, with a promise to try harder next time negotiations came up. Basically, here is more of the same. Even many remainers weren’t hugely chuffed with what we had but it was better than not having it. There wasn’t an exciting and positive case to sell because everyone thought they knew what it was.

Leave could promise what they liked, particularly Farage, Banks, et al. as they weren’t even officially on the team sheet so couldn’t be called to account as easily. Every time someone drew attention to the “lie”, the “lie” got more air and you could debate until you are blue in the face but it was very rare to be able to refute it AND get the refutation given widespread publicity given that the major media outlets were openly leave supporting or neutral.

Bottom line is that selling dreams is easier than selling reality, particularly to many people who needed dreams more than their current reality. Sensible arguments can’t make headway against alluring fantasy, particularly when, and let’s be honest, most people only listen to the headlines they like the sound of and don’t understand the deeper ramifications of what they are voting on because it is so very, very complex (outside my specific areas of expertise I include myself in this).

In those situations there is no controlling the narrative for remain, all the campaign could do was hope that enough people were scared of the risks.

Outside the EU we will have absolute flexibility to focus our trade policy where we wish. Without any shadow of a doubt import and export business with the EU will go down even with a free trade deal as we will have other free trade deals which will cut inti EU business

So, new free trade deals, removing tariffs from trade, good.

Very mischievous of Boris ahead of TM’s important speech on Friday but absolutely correct to out the NHS / £ 350m back on the front page. Strong ground for Leave and he is totally correct that we can make that sort of aspirational plan. As I said before no EU budget contributions and WTO tariffs with EU gives is far more than £350m pw to play with even including keeping all existing “EU” spending in the UK

So, no free trade deal, adding new tariffs to trade, also good?

Just heard John Redwood saying that “we’re an open and friendly country that wants good relationships with all the countries in the E.U.”

Oh. So why don’t we just stay in the E.U., then?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/17/boris-johnson-has-revived-romantic-vision-brexit-desperately/

Like I said, doubling down on the lies

So Maybot’s trip to Japan went well

http://m.dw.com/en/brexit-japanese-companies-set-to-leave-london/a-40523696

I’m sure order/order will paint it in a positive light.

People who want to tell us what to do objecting to people telling them what to do. Lovely.

Has jambalaya leaving the thread distracted us from this setback?

Oliver Robbins quits

I don’t think he’s quit.

I think he’s still the senior civil servant on the negotiating team but now reporting to May not Davis.

Make of that what you will. I could interpret it several ways.

I am interpreting it as ‘turns out that Davis really is a first class idiot and impossible to work with’.

So yeah maybe leaving Davis out of the loop is the best brexit news all week. 😆

Like I said several interpretations – that’s only one of them.

Poor old Boris. This article shows why it may be now or never for him – it’s all very well being the panto twunt to get exposure and attention, but when it’s your only trick and a bigger Panto-twunt like Rees Mogg appears, you’re liable to fade a bit.

It’s our own fault, really. We’ve turned politics into a cross between panto and reality TV and we are now getting the ‘personalities’ we deserve. The decline in average intelligence amongst the populace has many ramifications – Brexit is just the biggest foul up we’ve had a result. So far.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/sep/17/boris-johnson-foreign-secretary-tory

If nothing else works, then a total pig headed unwillingness to look the facts in the face will see us through….

Name that quote…

General Melchett.

Now give us a difficult one. 🙄

Oooh challenge accepted… googling only cheats thyme self –

Hit them were they ain’t…

An apt one considering this thread is Brexit-related.

“Patriotism is the less refuge of a scoundrel”.

Think Farage, Johnson, Rees Mogg etc.

Oh and for ‘scoundrel’ think ‘****’.

The Brexit process

But the F1 car starts out as a sleek, technological wonder.

Are there any gifs of a pile of stinking shit that just degrades and gets even fouler and shittier as time goes by?

Hmmm. Names to conjure with.

Lord Bridges
Lord Price
Olly Robbins
Dominic Cummings

Make of it what you will. Strongly sturdy I’d say.

Or how about this?

Slowoldman – someone will be along in a bit to suggest the front wheels chose to leave the bureaucratic nightmare of the car and are now rolling along far better than the car. “The car needs us more than we need them”, the wheels cry.
I suspect they still lost that race however you cut it.

The golf one works quite well.

The kid has obviously had a mare and duck-hooked a shit drive off the tee.

All he has to do is admit he’s got it wrong, declare the ball unplayable and take a penalty drop.

But no, the idiot doubles down on the initial mistake and makes a total bollocks of it.

Isn’t that the 4th senior advisor that Davis has lost this year?

His look of permanent befuddlement not an act ? Thick as mince & lazy as a toad, eh.

Things have got bad when May steps in to show strength & stability!

Johnsons desperate attempt to save his reputation (& scupper May’s soft? Brexit speech in Florence) was backed only by Gove Wormtongue & Rees-Mogg the Craven who’s just happy there is someone he can get behind rather than do the job himself..

Things have got bad when May steps in to show strength & stability!

Be careful what you wish for. That senior advisor working for Maybot may be down to the fact that Maybot wants her vision of Brexit pushed through, after she gets the powers of the repeal bill and stacking the committees in her favour.

We know that the immigration report a few weeks back was prepared by personnel working in the home office and reporting directly to Maybot and bypassing the home secretary.

Maybot is a classic career politician, will keep going with her vision of Britain regardless of whether the Britsh electorate want it or not.

our only saving grace/hope is that she probably lacks the power to do this/ is really crap at delivering.

No saving grace. If she has successfully blocked all possible avenues to pulling back from an exit, and yet fails at properly preparing us for that exit, and smoothing our exit… and getting us a sensible new set of arrangements after we exit… no brightside. And if anyone thinks that all the long term damage that scenerio would cause is worth it, to see her party being damaged and out of office, then please think of your country before tribal politics.

Robbins move has been planned for a few weeks, as EU team keep hinting May is planning on resetting negotiations and taking control herself, they said as much when they announced the timetable changes to accommodate her.

The big question is, will May announce a plan, or movement towards something akin to being an EEA partner, or signal she’s really preparing us for a real outside status followed by long trade talks to end up with something like Canada? Or will she just reaffirm the “keep everything just as it is, but tear everything up” approach laid out in the negotiating documents? I wouldn’t bet against more empty platitudes showing no real awareness that someone needs to kick things into action (fast action) as soon as the German elections are done. Movement. Any movement. A direction of travel. Something is needed, and reality says that we have to start It. And it now has to be her, as she’s kept everyone else (apart from DD) well away from having any say in it.

If anyone is still under the impression we are in control of this process they need to sit down and review the current state of play.

1. We want/need a deal, the EU is prepared to “cut its nose off to spite its face” for the greater good of the EU politically (not something we are prepared to do as we are shallow capitalists)
2. The longer this drags on the more the Tories spiral out of control, Barnier knows this will weaken the resolve of both politicians and people. He has already witnessed a significant shift (transition deal) in a very short time.
3. The EU has not been required to make a decision or present a question to the 27 for decision, this alone indicates the lack of positioning by DD and his teams ability to present such requests.
4. The UK based overseas banks/manufacturers have lost faith in the UKs ability to deliver a Brexit deal and they will ride the transition deal right over the channel/Irish sea.
5. We have lost the deal Bexiteers, we lost it about 4-6 weeks ago, the Torys know it, Farage knows it, Boris knows it hence his bollocks in the newspaper, Mark Carney knows it and you can bet your life Barnier knows it.

Anyone on here that works in or has worked in high level global sales also knows this.

DD is an idiot he thinks he is the uber sales guy, trouble is he doesn’t under stand that he has **** all to sell let alone something someone wants to buy.

and the direction this is heading in is possibly Labour etc. letting them roll along until May has to present either a hard brexit option or something that looks and costs similar to what is already in place – vote of no confidence then off to the polls – that would be the astute time to debate the EU at the GE level. When the rock and hard place situation is very clear.

Apologies if we’ve already done this, but I just came across it. Groucho Marx and BoJo:

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsOf0TZPPWY[/video]

The big question is, will May announce a plan, or movement towards something akin to being an EEA partner, or signal she’s really preparing us for a real outside status followed by long trade talks to end up with something like Canada?

Or simply carry on with what she has said all along i.e. Attempt to negotiate a bespoke FTA deal?

Seems far more likely. EEA is an incomplete answer so hope she does better than that

It’s all going so well that “carrying on” is obviously the sensible thing to do. Can’t fail, really.

As I recall, May was originally pro-single market, pro-FoM, but very heavily anti-ECJ.
I wonder if anything has really changed? I.E. would she pretty much accept any deal that kept the ECJ out of (for example) UK human rights?
And don’t tell me there’s been a vote and that wouldn’t uphold it – that’s history, and I doubt May really cares about it very much.

Id agree May isn’t the kind of person that changes her settings much, though with her anti-immigrant bias at the home office, in not sure how pro FOM she is.

She needs to show leadership, the feeling on the EU side is that the Tories don’t know what the fk to do, especially with demagogues like Johnson & Mogg backing them further info a corner.

While EEA looses us huge chunks of influence, im just not convinced we have the ability to get much more from the EU.

Maybot’s speech in Italy this week seems like it might be something along on the line of ‘EEA or nothing’.

If it has to be voted thru…., as the resurgent Chappers keeps saying there is no parliamentary majority to take us out of the single market.

Let’s see what we learn from Florence & the Machine tomorrow

Though I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s just more empty soundbites.

Some of this is bleeding obvious, if hard brexit/two was the preferred option then we would be say at the table discussing how to disconnect, thing is that’s not what DD is doing as he is trying to get them to discuss a trade deal prior to sorting out obligations – hence it’s very easy to establish the UKs bargaining position – to achieve what DD wants requires a constitutional change in the EU starting with FOM, how many people think that FOM will be changed within the EU? Anyone with half a brain including DD Boris etc knows and understands that currently FOM is critical to UK business prospering. At some point the Tories will either give in on this issue or self destruct.

Boris has sensed the lost deal and is positioning himself for the self destruction option by presenting himself as the swivel eyed option – it’s pathetic at best, at worst it impacts on poor people’s quality of life.

People would do well to remember that the UK on a pound/euro parity is very attractive to the EU as we will pay the extra for a BMW/week in Benidorm while they get cheap stuff/holidays from us.

Seriously folks this is not complicated and it’s not being run by smart peole (those people that are smart are distancing them selves from this)