Yes, no proper oversight. Read the bill.

Just decided I’m feeding you. Time to stop.

I have done, have you?

Time to ride…

Remoaners just moaning. The whole rant about Commons Committee’s is a blatant attempt to derail the Bexit process.

These t-shirts as seen on the rally yesterday say it all really, seething negativity. My observation over my 54 years is that those with a positive enthusiastic approach tend to achieve the most. That’s how we at Vote Leave won. Reamin had little positive to say about anything least of all the EU

that pretty much sums up the strength of your arguments for leave. the best you’ve got is taking the piss out of a t-shirt?

The fact that you can’t understand our sentiment Jambalaya means you have no idea what you’ve done to the country.

So maybe instead of simply criticising our point of view, why not try to understand it? This is what a decent human being would do. You’re showing that you don’t give much of a shit about others.

You’re showing that you don’t give much of a shit about others.

show me a right wing person that does. Not caring about others is part of the genetic make up of a right wing person, they are born with a lack of empathy.

That’s how we at Vote Leave won

Well according to your own side, you won because you lied. Money for the NHS, Turks flooding the Country. etc

So maybe instead of simply criticising our point of view, why not try to understand it? This is what a decent human being would do. You’re showing that you don’t give much of a shit about others.

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7MxkY7byhEk[/video]

People are expressing strongly held views and he is simply dismissing them as ‘moaning’. People are pointing out the massive real problems we are facing now and to him this is simply moaning. For ****’s sake.

You were born a hundred years too late. You’d have made a great first world war general. Tally ho, what!

So what efforts have you made to understand the points of view of those who want to leave the EU?

So ninfan, Chamberlain was right to appease Hitler?

As for not caring, most left wing people i know have been of the opinion that the UKs problems were westminster and that a huge amount of the issues could only be solved by WM. Care the NHS, education et al.
That tax rises would be needed and that everyone was going to have to pay more but it would be worth it.

The referendum for many was about WM and not about Brussels, only thing is that in attacking Brussels they have screwed themselves.

We have all lost, just a case that it will take some a little longer to understand.

So what efforts have you made to understand the points of view of those who want to leave the EU?

No more Muslims, no more Poles, no more immigrants. more money for the NHS. That covers most of the people i have met.

So ninfan, Chamberlain was right to appease Hitler?

No, what we ought to have done was join the German led Axis empire and seek to reform them from within…

😉

So what efforts have you made to understand the points of view of those who want to leave the EU?

You want me to list efforts?

Rather difficult, but I always seek to understand others points of view. It’s what I do. I’m not one of those complaining about racists and xenophobes.

It seems from listening to the arguments that most leavers were simply misinformed. I don’t accept that leaving was the right thing to do, beacause I don’t think that having foreigners involved in part in the government of our country try is a big deal. Beacause the concept of ‘foreigner’ is fairly inocuous so why does it matter?

Understanding the leavers viewpoint? I do and its utter nonsense and abhorrent

Racism / xenophobia
Harking back to an imaginary time of empire
Believing the lies of the xenophobic right wing press

See, I would not trivialise it like that.

a positive enthusiastic approach tend to achieve the most. That’s how we at Vote Leave won.

Leave won due to negativity about the EU, negativity about immigration. Negativity based on lies. Farage stands for xenophobic negativity and Boris for negative lies about the EU.

MOlgrips – its not trivialising it. Thats the reasons. No other reason has ever been offered by anyone I have read or discussed it with. All the reasons for leaving the EU boil down to one or a combination of these

One other fundamental point, What difference does it make to me whether i am ruled from London or Brussels, both are remote, both have little contact.

Economies of scale point to Brussels being better for many things, in the same way local councils club together to provide bin collections and the like.

Government should be at the lowest appropriate level, something that no WM government has shown any interest in.

Leave won due to negativity about the EU, negativity about immigration. Negativity based on lies. Farage stands for xenophobic negativity and Boris for negative lies about the EU.

Ah, more inmates for Barniers re-education camps then…

No other reason has ever been offered by anyone I have read or discussed it with.

Really? I’ve heard one bloke giving reasons that had nothing to do with your list since I was on my mothers tit

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YI6mzHkx3xA[/video]

Another bloody right wing nutter, no doubt.

THM – sadly not riding. 4hour drive to visit my mother in hospital.

For you however…

The plan, detailed in a motion by Andrea Leadsom, the leader of the House of Commons, seeks to change the rules on membership of public bill committees, often referred to by their former name, standing committees.

As part of the progress of a bill through the Commons, a committee is set up to scrutinise it in detail. This is often the period when the most amendments are made and potential problems addressed.

The party makeup of such committees is based on the composition of the Commons, meaning that since the election in June, when Theresa May lost her majority, newly formed committees would seek a political balance.

However, Leadsom’s motion, to be considered on Tuesday, says that while parity should be sought on other types of committee, this would not happen on public bill committees.

The rules should be interpreted, it reads, such that “where a committee has an odd number of members the government shall have a majority, and where a committee has an even number of members the number of government and opposition members shall be equal; but this instruction shall not apply to the nomination of any public bill committee”.

I believe the motion goes to the house this week.

This is not part of the GRB, but removes some parliamentary power for an indefinite period – i.e. there’s no end date I think.

We’ll see what actually goes to the house, but it is being suggested that current rules on a 9 strong committee might give 4 Cons, 4 Labs and 1 SNP, but Leadsom’s proposals would give 5 Cons and 4 Labs. Quite a shift away from parliament to government.

MOlgrips – its not trivialising it. Thats the reasons. No other reason has ever been offered by anyone I have read or discussed it with.

Except Jambalaya, for one.

There’s the chip on shoulder reason – Dyson, Tate & Lyle, at least one on here.

molgrips – Member

MOlgrips – its not trivialising it. Thats the reasons. No other reason has ever been offered by anyone I have read or discussed it with.

Except Jambalaya, for one. [/quote]

Nope – not read every post on here but Jamba fits right in with that analysis – his is ( mainly) believing the lies in the right wing press

So maybe instead of simply criticising our point of view, why not try to understand it? This is what a decent human being would do.

That works both ways. Look at the abuse jambas get here (and the posts after yours) and the crap spouted about how leave beat us and TJ’s mypoic comment above that misses how much of the remoaning on the GRB is merely spouting LW press. Works both ways doesn’t it?

The reasons why people voted leave are ignored, the reasons why we did such a bad job at presenting a positive case for remaining ignored, the ability to explain why CMD got a great deal was swamped in party political dogma. Amd all we do now is moan, moan, moan.

How many people have been able to explain specifically why their are SO outraged or what the alternative is to ensuring the “vast” amount of EU law is on our statute books on day one, The best is to do what we always do – no really, how long would that take ???

The remoaners are outdoing the Brexshiteers in making stuff up and exaggerating wildly

IGM – sorry to hear about your mother (in the same boat too) and hope she is ok. Best wishes. Thanks fior the link too. I guess the key question is this indeterminate period. I am with you if this is in perpetuity. Less so, if it is for the duration of the GRB. Can you (or anyone) clarify. Frankly there is a lot of skullduggery gong on here which is pretty unattractive.

As I have said before, my priorities are to expedite this process rather than to reverse it. We can debate the extend to which we want to/should fight on but IMO that is a lost battle. From a purely selfish perspective, there is a very big difference between how Brexshit affects my industry in theory v practice. In theory, it is very, very complicated. In pratciev the players are already well positioned to be able to respond either way to all outcomes – we get on with things – so the uncertainty is really about the costs of reorganisation and we want to minimise that uncertainty and cost ASAP. So I approach this from a different position to kimbers and others, their work/industries maybe be less prepared so for them the incentive to “get on with it” is probably lower.

It’s messy isn’t it!

Still best to focus on what is in front of us, not what we wish was in front of us, eh?!?

TJ I think you’ll find I was posting my opinions way before similar views appeared in the mainstream press, the vast majority of which I don’t read. I don’t read the Express, Mail, FT, Times or most of the Telegragph as that’s subscription too now. The thread keeps ranting on out right wing this and that. Brexit was a cross party issue and it was the very strong Leave vote by Labour suporters which carried the day.

My view. The Tories under May are absolutely NOT going to weaken Environmental or Employment legislation post Brexit in such a away as to give Remoaners and/or the Labour Party any ammunition come the next GE. In my view they will do the contrary, they will strengthen both to head off that line of campaigning.

I see Tony Blair doing the rounds again today, an “epiphany” he has had supposedly. Well too late, he should have listened in 2003 (?) and in any case his big mistake wrt the EU was signing the Lisbon Treaty at all.

Vince Cable and Tony Blair, what a pair.

Jamba go on then give your reasons succinctly to show its not simply believing the 20+ year campaign in the right wing press

20+ year campaign in the right wing press

[video]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yINAvMtZ2BM[/video]

Skinner – hates the Germans, harks back to empire.

harks back to empire.

Hmm

Is not it ironic that at a time when the Soviet Union cannot handle the 15 nationalities in that empire, the Indian sub-continent is continuing to disintegrate and Yugoslavia cannot keep its nationalities together, people like the Foreign Secretary continue to waffle on about some grand political design in the Common Market? The truth is that British history and western European history show that in the past 11 centuries treaties have been drawn up between some of the oldest industrialised countries, every one of which, almost without exception, is in the dustbin of history. This latest grand political design will finish in the same place.

Seems like he’s far from a believer in empires, doesn’t it?

which bits make you particularly nervous

What makes me nervous is the Gov’s attempt to load the committee in their favour, when they actually aren’t in the majority…..& the attempt to integrate EU law into UK law with no parliamentary oversight….re. Henry VIII clauses.

Essentially they are attempting to fix the system in their favour & their corporate buddies..

Henry VIII
Shady power grab..

And grabbing powers that should be devolved ie fisheries

MrL – fair enough, so the alternative?

Plus this from the bill

14 The Bill does not aim to make major changes to policy or establish new legal frameworks in the UK beyond those which are necessary to ensure the law continues to function properly from day one. The Government will introduce separate primary legislation to make such policy changes which will establish new legal frameworks.

Ok so no major changes and primary legislation in that case – so are the nerves the idea of the EU laws 😉 or which bit of EU law has been designed for the nasty corporate buddies of the Tories?

Oddly I thought you were an EU fan 😉

THM – Thanks. It’s appreciated.

And yes, we’ll see what the Leadsom proposals actually is next week. I don’t like it full stop, but I can understand the reasoning for it if it’s only for GRB scrutiny (not that I really like that).

Are governments well known for handing back power that they’ve got their hands on though?

No

The reaction to any terror attack shows that. Take more liberty away – normally too much – and never give it back

The remoaners are outdoing the Brexshiteers in making stuff up and exaggerating wildly

Go on them, link some.

I’ll get back with all the Brexit propaganda posters and some Tory press headlines and we’ll compare.

Look at the abuse jambas get here

citation required. or ‘report post’. there’s a special button for it and everything. what is this now? the third time?

Here you go Ed – caveat the poster may have joking

Where your MPs were indoctrinated

And who they are before even being indoctrinated

Sorry the links don’t work

MrL – fair enough, so the alternative?

Follow parliamentary process – it’s really not too much to ask……

Ok so no major changes and primary legislation in that case – so are the nerves the idea of the EU laws or which bit of EU law has been designed for the nasty corporate buddies of the Tories?

That’s a half truth & a twisting of words at best. Neither EU law nor UK law frightens me.

What frightens me is the prospect of the Tories cherry picking new legislation & they want to do it with loaded committees & without parliament.