dudeofdoom – Member
Its surprising the little things the eu does

It’s like shouting at a wall, they have no idea. Nige said everything would be better just like before. When it was shit.
Let them speak, then let them answer this stuff in public, take away the protest vote and the idiots and Brexit is looking very unpopular that is why they are forcing it so hard. Run with the ideology must do it before they can stop us.

theotherjonv – Member

What i do disagree with now is that there was no brexit plan to examine and vote on, and that has now metamorphosised into ‘give me a bigger majority to instigate the brexit that I want’ without taking into account the closeness and the wishes of remainers, the (many) leavers who are now saying ‘hang on, I didn’t exactly vote for this’ and also our EU colleagues. Instead we have talk of traitors, saboteurs, ‘it’ll be worse for them than us’ and ‘they had their chance, never changed the EU when they should so it’ll be their fault if we cause it to all crash down, ****’em’

Yup. And she’ll take this election as a mandate to deliver whatever brexit she wants, but will we know before the election what that means? (this works all ways; will it be hard enough for the nutters?)

Yes. I firmly believe leavers have no idea what the EU actually does, or how it benefits them.

FYI folks who believe the process can’t be stopped – anyone telling you that is misguided themselves or deliberately trying to railroad you.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/apr/20/european-parliament-will-welcome-britain-back-if-voters-veto-brexit

molgrips – Member
Yes. I firmly believe leavers have no idea what the EU actually does, or how it benefits them.

😆

Many of those who voted leave, knew exactly what Brussels was and was not doing for them.

However, in true lefty tradition, don’t play the ball. Instead, play the Man and label all leavers as dumb, racist, etc, etc.
Because that way remainistas don’t have to deal with the reality those who voted leave, were forced to deal with, in their daily lives.
Very classy!
😉

That’s an interesting statement given the EU’s parliament get a vote in the deal.

Because that way remainistas don’t have to deal with the reality those who voted leave, was forced to deal with, in their lives.

Go on then, enlighten this poor lefty. What reality solo and why was it caused by the EU and not Westminster?

However, in true lefty tradition, don’t play the ball. Instead, play the Man and label all leavers as dumb, racist, etc, etc.

And while you’re at it, can you point out any really bright, non racist, leavers? Since I’d love you ask them for any real, concrete, benefits to Brexit.

@igm I suspect it would be sorted out with little fuss if it happened. However as yet no party is standing on that platform. Regrettably I think Brexit has now become normalised to many people, including remain voters, due to the incessant repetition of it being “will of the people” and “no going back” etc etc.

@solo he didn’t say anyone was dumb or racist.

You are self victimising.

Matt we have 700 pages of such accusations here and the same over and over during the browder campaign. At least one STWer had a ban for calling another a racist.

Hamble @folgliettaz

Well the EU does “all those things” for France who pay a zero net contribution. I have a very good idea of what the EU “does for us” and its my opinion its not worth the cost, nothing like.

I’ve not read 700 pages. But the accusation solo makes at the other in this case is false.

I see a strong trend of self victimisation amongst leavers. Blame the other. There are disturbing historical parallels.

FWIW I’ve been called toe curling things by people I have disagreed with (I was recently put on a Twitter list called “next time an immigrant commits rape, blame them”). But I don’t accuse the people who don’t do it (and I am confidant would not support it).

The EU has brought peace and stability. Can’t put a price on peace and not murdering millions of people.

Solo – I don’t think all leavers are dumb racists. I think the bright ones have taken advantage of the dumb racists for their own ends.
I’m going to assume you are in the ‘taking advantage’ category.
So chapeau to you sir – what advantage have you gained? Perhaps I’ll gain the same advantage and you’ll have converted me to the cause.

And while you’re at it, can you point out any really bright, non racist, leavers?

They do exist. I’ll hopefully be sharing a pint with some in an hour or so.
Jamba seems like a bright lad too and I don’t believe him to be racist.

Since I’d love you ask them for any real, concrete, benefits to Brexit.

The ability to negotiate our own trade deals seems like the most obvious one.

Personally I think we were in a stronger position when we negotiated as a part of world’s largest trading block. But I can see the opposing argument.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/apr/20/falkland-islands-argentina-brexit

And…..

Anyone shocked to hear this………

Anyone…………….

FWIW I’ve been called toe curling things by people I have disagreed with (I was recently put on a Twitter list called “next time an immigrant commits rape, blame them”). But I don’t accuse the people who don’t do it (and I am confidant would not support it).

I wouldn’t worry, growing up i was called a paddy bastard and a provo, amongst other anti irish things*. It is why i am not English and am now as May put it a citizen of nowhere. I had hoped i would never have to see that side of the English again, but i was sadly wrong.

*Yes i have an Irish surname, and a passport, but i have never lived there, infact i have spent 8 days in the republic in my life.

The EU has brought peace and stability. Can’t put a price on peace and not murdering millions of people.

Peace brought about by 100,000’s of largely American and British troops stationed in Germany, a more sympathetic approach to Germany post WW2 (ie no reparations) and NATO. Oh yes and nuclear weapons. The EU has contributed to instability with its political agenda to incorporate ex USSR nations. The (possible / likely) collapse of the euro could well lead to substantial instability especially in Southern Europe.

@mrmo The Guardian the numner 1 journal of the Remoaner. Note the word could means you can write just about what you want. Who gives a toss what the EU thinks about the UK’s governance of the Falklands ?

not really .

Peace because we dont seem to attack each other anymore .

but well done , good try .

Yes i have an Irish surname, and a passport, but i have never lived there, infact i have spent 8 days in the republic in my life.

Just as well. According to jambalaya, it’s a backward country anyway.

@jambalaya – I suspect we share the same MP, have an appointment with her in just over a week which was arranged prior to election announcement. I’ve already had a dummy run with a local Councillor who was shocked at what I told him but have zero expectations of MP showing any interest. Shall have a darn good try when on the soapbox! 😀

I see a strong trend of self victimisation amongst leavers. Blame the other. There are disturbing historical parallels.

Well done for destroying your own point in two lines – very impressive.

The EU has contributed to instability with its political agenda to incorporate ex USSR nations.

Oh right. Nothing to do with Nato expanding eastwards then.

The (possible / likely) collapse of the euro could well lead to substantial instability especially in Southern Europe.

Repeating it won’t make it come true.

jambalaya – Member
Peace brought about by 100,000’s of largely American and British troops stationed in Germany, a more sympathetic approach to Germany post WW2 (ie no reparations) and NATO. Oh yes and nuclear weapons. The EU has contributed to instability with its political agenda to incorporate ex USSR nations. The (possible / likely) collapse of the euro could well lead to substantial instability especially in Southern Europe.

You don’t have to demonstrate your lack of knowledge Jamba. It’s not mandatory.

NATO undoubtedly plays its part, as does the ECHR and the EU including predecessors.

Actually I don’t think you are demonstrating a lack of knowledge – I think you are willlfully ignoring what you know to be true.

War every 30 years or so in western Europe for centuries stops with the introduction of those 3 pillars.

And now you’re old enough not to be called up, you want to disassemble them.

Not good Jamba not good.

Has Solo offered up any anti-Europe reality yet?

I may have missed it, but I am interested.

NATO defends the borders.

But this is the first time in history the 3 major powers of Western Europe – UK, France, Germany, have been at peace for an extended period.

The EU is very material to that.

Even if that’s the only benefit of the EU, the fabled £350mm/week is loose change for the return.

–

Many of those who voted leave, knew exactly what Brussels was and was not doing for them.
However, in true lefty tradition, don’t play the ball. Instead, play the Man and label all leavers as dumb, racist, etc, etc.
Because that way remainistas don’t have to deal with the reality those who voted leave, were forced to deal with, in their daily lives.
Very classy!

Please elaborate.

I asked that yesterday. Haven’t seen anything beyond that assertion yet.

Many of those who voted leave, knew exactly what Brussels was and was not doing for them.

I don’t think you did.. but we’ll find out if it stops doing it won’t we 🙂

Oh and that’s not playing the man – that would be if I called you an idiot or some other abuse.

And yes I fully appreciate the problems that huge numbers of people face daily. I do not live in a privileged bubble. However, I don’t think those problems are caused by the EU, I think they could well get much worse after the vote.

If they improve (as I hope they do) it’ll be because future governments have nowhere to hide any more and might start actually doing their job.

I do live in a privileged bubble, so can someone point out the daily problems caused by the EU please.

Help me to understand your plight.

I lucked my way into a privileged bubble so I also need some help on why the EU is causing daily problems for people that are 100% EU and nothing to do with our own government.

I do live in a privileged bubble, so can someone point out the daily problems caused by the EU please.

Help me to understand your plight.

I have a couple of friends who work in trades and say their incomes have been reduced due to wage competition from EU incomers. I’ve no idea if that stands up to scrutiny, but that’s what they say and that’s directly why they voted leave.

I have a couple of friends who work in trades and say their incomes have been reduced due to wage competition from EU incomers. I’ve no idea if that stands up to scrutiny, but that’s what they say and that’s directly why they voted leave.

The only studies i have come across show no affect to maybe -2%.

Matt – heard that said too but like you I haven’t seen any data that backs up that assertion.

Edit: so -2% max. Or less than the additional inflationary effect of Brexit.

They don’t mean 2%.

I don’t totally buy it myself but it’s plausible.

But I don’t think leaving will fix it for them – if there’s less labour then their rates may rise a little but only until they hit the affordability ceiling, and if there’s negative impact on the economy (we’re in the SE so dependent on the City) then the market will contract. Less City bonuses = less spending on non-essential home upgrades.

And more DIY

Personally I think we were in a stronger position when we negotiated as a part of world’s largest trading block. But I can see the opposing argument.

Graham, any post-pint-with-Jamba insights you can share?

Personally I think we were in a stronger position when we negotiated as a part of world’s largest trading block. But I can see the opposing argument.

Strangely enough, I can’t.