Northwind, appreciate it’s your choice whether to bother but it’s valuable to have your point of view on this topic in particular

Tax. Appreciate this is not a Theresa May thread but I very much hope she uses Brexit and stepping away from the giant tax scam that is the EU to deliver on this .. Google, Facebook, Amazon, Starbucks, Apple included

if you’re a tax dodger we’re coming after you..If you’re an accountant, a financial adviser or a middleman who helps people to avoid what they owe to society, we’re coming after you too

There should be some red tape, the employer should demonstrate you are adding value and that there is not a local person who could do / is available to do the job.

What if the local person COULD do the job but isn’t as good as the foreigner? You’d still have to give it to the local? Wouldn’t this reduce business performance and competitiveness?

I think we will have already lost a lot of potential good quality workers.

Tax. Appreciate this is not a Theresa May thread but I very much hope she uses Brexit and stepping away from the giant tax scam that is the EU to deliver on this .. Google, Facebook, Amazon, Starbucks, Apple included

But they’re only using the law to their own advantage. They’re not doing anything illegal. We can’t use different argument on different threads to suit ourselves.
What would Donald do?

because they have an even more capable applicant ?

Sometimes. Other times it’s because migrating is very expensive, very complex, time consuming for the applicant, insecure, age dependant, health dependant and the system is slow to react.

Northwind – Member

chewkw – Member
Influence? Please don’t please … oh Lord here comes troubles.

It’s actually a pretty big deal… There’s english-speaking graduates with fond memories of the UK and a good cultural understanding all around the world and some are in very influential positions. It’s a totally unquantifiable asset but it’s certainly a positive[/quote]

Yes, educate them in treating animal nicely. Educate them not to eat everything in sight. Have mercy on the animals. Educate them in looking after their environment. Trade with them etc …

But let them deal with their own people themselves and certainly avoid messing with their politics. i.e. avoid the example of the outgoing US President disrespectfully criticising a sovereign state.

Yay, chewkw is back. It was good when you were banned, it meant I didn’t have to read your incoherent drivel.

Some horrific points in the Guardian’s post-Brexit May article.

Tax. Appreciate this is not a Theresa May thread but I very much hope she uses Brexit and stepping away from the giant tax scam that is the EU to deliver on this .. Google, Facebook, Amazon, Starbucks, Apple included

Even by the convoluted logical standards of Brexiteers, there is quite some mental gymnastics here. Companies get away with tax avoidance by arbitraging between different tax regimes. The only solution is a coordinated one. Brexit makes that much harder and plays into the hands of the avoiders not the other way round.

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Chrome extension that basically removes certain posters contributions

Well it’s the reason she’s PM, so she might as well run with it.

Brexit makes that much harder and plays into the hands of the avoiders not the other way round.

Quite. I seem to remember a few weeks ago the EU taking Apple to task. Can you imagine the British government doing that with any sort of conviction ?

The evidence doesn’t doesn’t stack up to support Jambalaya’s argument.

TMH there will NEVER be a co-ordinated one. Even when Ireland was bust they refused to budge. Luxembourg under Junker turned itself into Europe’s richest nation via tax swerves. Even if you harmonise rates of tax there are a million loopholes. Irish tax is 12.5% but Apple paid 1% and we all remember the PWC Lux leak, hundreds if not thousands of cosy deals. Companies well know they can play one EU state against another. Irleand and Lux are kore than happy to collect £10m even if that means the rest of the EU loses out on a £ billion.

Quite. I seem to remember a few weeks ago the EU taking Apple to task

Hardly, EU has ignored these deals for years, they have been shamed into it by the PWC leak (and Lux courrs took the two whistleblowers to court 😯 ) and when as a result €300m of past tax was colelcted in Lux as a result

@Captain you will recall I called the US loss carry forwrd stupid. I am consistent. Trump would do just as Apple etc do. That’s why the law needs changing and is one reason why “full access to the single market” is a bad idea.

There is a vested interest here, we need to pay for the services we want. All of these companies are putting UK businesses under as they have a tax advantage.

Well then the issue will not go away. That’s simple You said it yourself, companies play states off against each other. This makes that more not less likely.

Another Brexit clusterfu@@

as if the uk government is going to upset businesses even more by changing tax laws .
” we are open for business , but you have to pay more tax ”

not going to happen .

But they need us more than we need them….

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/05/angela-merkel-takes-significantly-tougher-brexit-stance?CMP=fb_gu

The evidence doesn’t doesn’t stack up to support Jambalaya’s argument.

Indeed

https://www.ft.com/content/b4b66986-77fa-11e5-933d-efcdc3c11c89

Hardly, EU has ignored these deals for years

,

You need to demonstrate without the EU (given the Apple precedent) how it would be better?

I genuinely don’t understand your argument. It seems to defy what has happened recently. And using the fact that the EU ignored this or that previously doesn’t cut it for me. It’s not a counter argument.

Can you imagine the British government doing that with any sort of conviction ?

Ask a diesel VW owner how effectively the UK government is chasing up their compensation…

Rone – according to the BS philosophy, if in doubt blame the EU. It’s a faultless tactic – 51% of us swallowed it.

Amazed no one though of blaming others before, especially foreigners.

as if the uk government is going to upset businesses even more by changing tax laws .

Listen to what May said. Apple, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, Google even Starbucks (who at oeast have people working in shops) add very little value to the UK, all they do is sell products into the UK

TMH there won’t be agreement as everyone will fight over the taxes including US and it ends up with them being paid nowhere. It’s either a change in corporate tax law or more VAT. FT is behind a paywall and I don’t play internet link tennis anyway

rone the EU has done the square root of f-all. Osbourne got £100m out of Google, the French are going for closer to a € billion

I do accept the Government may fail to deliver as I wish on this but May’s words where at least encouraging.

@Nipper Merkel amd Hollande face elections, talking tough is required for their domestic agenda. I assume you’ve seen the German car Unions statements urging a deal. They also need to work out how they will raise taxes/cut spending in Germnay to raise the extra €5bn pa EU budget contribution they have to find. If EU won’t negotiate let them try a few years with WTO tariffs. TBH they are going to be too distracted with Refugee crises and eurozone soveriegn debt crises to focus on anything else.

I honestly think all of this is too complex to assimilate and bat out so we were always going to take the path of least resistance. That is, like you say blame the minorities.

Listening to any questions last week in Boston, Linc’s – the debate became so convoluted between left and right, unemployment and low wages that I forgot the argument and decided it must just be eaiser to blame the poor leak pickers.

Listen to what May said. Apple, Amazon, eBay, Facebook, Google even Starbucks (who at oeast have people working in shops) add very little value to the UK, all they do is sell products into the UK

I have the text on the screen in front of me – cant see these comments anywhere!!

TMH there won’t be agreement as everyone will fight over the taxes including US and it ends up with them being paid nowhere. It’s either a change in corporate tax law or more VAT. FT is behind a paywall and I don’t play internet link tennis anyway

So what is you argument then – that the UK is going to deal with this unilaterally? Put that in the £350m drawer

Ask a diesel VW owner how effectively the UK government is chasing up their compensation…

UK Govt powerless, its an EU law issue. I have made this point a number if times before.

Hopefully we can get proper on-the-road testing and repeat that as cars age and adjust VED accordingly. We should move to petrol/hybrid and tax diesel heavily to reflect real world pollution. There have been many studies showing city pollution increasing even though cars are allegedly cleaner. The culprit is diesel which in practice is far dirtier than the test says

Jambalaya, those businesses have no need to be UK based at all. What is stopping them from moving their UK offices some where else?

rone the EU has done the square root of f-all. Osbourne got £100m out of Google

Aren’t Apple being smacked for 13 billion?

FT is behind a paywall

A small price to pay to avoid making unsubstantiated claims – I recommend it

The comments below the articles make this place seem tame at times

EU has ignored these deals for years, they have been shamed into it by the PWC leak

Why did they feel pressurised into tackling an issue in ireland from a leak related to Luxembourg?
More worryingly for your suggestion is the problem that the EU started investigating Apple in september 2014 and the leaks came out in November 2014.

You dont have spout some untruths and gibberish oin here

Facts wrong
reasoning deeply deeply flawed

– They will stop recruiting doctors whose training was paid for by other countries ..many of which are poorer than the UK and themselves have less doctors per head of population
– They will welcome with open arms people who want to come here solely for the purpose of accessing education but will not welcome those who are really coming here for other reasons
– They will make sure the proven abuses by some employers are dealt with – and also force employers to invest more in training.

My wife graduated from a respected university, top of her class in Economics. It was already impossible for her to find a job after she graduated so we had to go down the marriage visa route to stay together. The attack on students is rhetorical, designed as others have said to reduce overall numbers – the abusers were mostly dealt with by the previous administration.

Kimbers is right – this feels like the 1930’s.

UK Govt powerless, its an EU law issue. I have made this point a number if times before

.

Why can’t the DfT prosecute?

Tom_W1987 – Member
My wife graduated from a respected university, top of her class in Economics.

A degree in Economics is not easy to find a job regardless of where you are in the world. In the far east Economics degree is usually studied by govt sponsored students (govt people). They get to study Economics in preparation to become future advisors etc. Privately funded individuals would prefer Accounting & Finance or any science related degree. Even a degree management related is much better. I think most of the Economics graduates I know are either working for their own parents or end up as teachers at schools.

A degree in Economics is not easy to find a job regardless of where you are in the world. In the far east Economics degree is usually studied by govt sponsored students (govt people). They get to study Economics in preparation to become future advisors etc. Privately funded individuals would prefer Accounting & Finance or any science related degree. Even a degree management related is much better. I think most of the Economics graduates I know are either working for their own parents or end up as teacher at schools.

She’s working a 40k job in Finance – despite only graduating in 2014 – but cheers – it wasn’t impossible for her to get interviews, it was impossible to get a tier 2.

Jambalaya, those businesses have no need to be UK based at all. What is stopping them from moving their UK offices some where else?

We make it a legal requiremt to be based here and route their profits through a UK company. We are perfectly entitied once we are out of the EU to make it so.

TMH I wonder if the FT has the same offshore tax arrangements as the Guardian ? Vested Interest ? Haven’t read the Ft since the dire standard of their reporting on the credit crises. It’s just a big tabloid on pink paper.

@rome yes its back taxes as Apple where paying 1% not the 12.5% they where supposed to. I believe Apple puts 60% of its international profits through Ireland. In my book Apple has swerved something like €40bn in European taxes by routing through Ireland instead of UK, France, Germany etc where the real sales took place and where corporate taxes are much higher.

Tom we are adopting the same practices as Canada, Australia and the US. If that’s your idea of the 1930’s then so be it

We make it a legal requiremt to be based here and route their profits through a UK company. We are perfectly entitied once we are out of the EU to make it so.

Have you got a flag?

TMH I wonder if the FT has the same offshore tax arrangements as the Guardian ? Vested Interest ?

What does that have to do with the article or the points under discussion?

Haven’t read the Ft since the dire standard of their reporting on the credit crises.

That is very clear eg, misunderstanding of UK exposure to Greece and the facts behind our last support package.

It’s just a big tabloid on pink paper.

I see. Perhaps I will need to simply make stuff up in future.

Tom we are adopting the same practices as Canada, Australia and the US. If that’s your idea of the 1930’s then so be it

Canada allows students to work, Canadas points based immigration policy is a joke – I could get through it even without a job offer and I’m a lazy arsehole – the UK is harder. Get your facts straight.

And if you think that the US is a shining beacon of right wing sanity, it isn’t – it’s dangerously close to turning Starship Troopers into a documentary. I see may wants to take us down that route as well by setting up 150 new cadet forces (read brownshirts) – so now we get to have US style militarism as well. Next up, public lynchings when people fail to standup when the national anthem is played at every single **** sporting match.

**** it though, at least joining some kind of British Edelweißpiraten will give me a cause to latch onto – for the first time ever.

We make it a legal requiremt to be based here and route their profits through a UK company. We are perfectly entitied once we are out of the EU to make it so.

Have yo ever worked for a company that failed to follow these principles? Or more than one even? 😉

Tom_W1987 – Member
She’s working a 40k job in Finance – despite only graduating in 2014 – but cheers – it wasn’t impossible for her to get interviews, it was impossible to get a tier 2.

That is strange. 40K a year? In sterling pounds in the UK or currency in other country? She is more than qualified if that is the case (earning UK £/Euro) but if that is salary outside of EU/UK then it amounts to nothing no matter what amount, unless you want to invest min £200,000K in the UK.

Getting interview is one thing, getting a job offer from “UK employer with a valid Tier 2 sponsorship licence” is much harder. Most companies will give you an interview to make up the quota regardless of where you come from. Getting an offer is very much harder.

On top of that before the job is offered it must pass The Resident Labour Market Test – EU/EEA & UK. (not for Tier 2 Shortage Occupations List)

It has nothing to do with tier 2 – it has everything to do with the job offer (from employer with sponsorship licence) and the salary level must reach certain level (can remember what now).

My friend faced the same situation but eventually she got a job but it was closed. She is a scientist and they pay her well.

She just have to keep applying and cast her net wider (in other fields). Eventually she will find an employer that value her to help her. Good luck.

No, you won’t pass the Resident Labour Market Test being a fresh graduate – which was the point of my post. May and Rudd are full of shit, there are not hoardes of international students getting opportunities to take British jobs.

She’s on that, because she scored insanely highly – consistently throughout the three years of her degree and because she got a lot of interest once we got the marriage visa, landing a job with a rather secretive hedge fund. She was then poached by another firm – all in the space of a year. However before she had the marriage visa, the first thing she was always told was “we won’t sponsor you”.