Phew, at least he’s not got a silly man bun this time.^

You’ve got the admire the sheer brass neck of Fox, a man who has not only spent his entire career living off the state but was also caught defrauding it. Breathtaking.

Also couldn’t help but raise a smile at the Grady, the union lady, demanding that her members aren’t the ones having to ‘pay’ for Brexit. What percentage of her members do we reckon voted to leave? I’m guessing at +50%.

I would happily challenge the deceitful DR to a mirror test to see who is the fatter and take an hours worked test. What stupid comments, even if taken out of context.

I hope theresa Teresa knows what she is doing by giving these fools enough rope. They can do a lot of day amaze before they hang themselves.

From personal experience I think Dr Fox might have a point, even if rather inelegantly put. To export goods you need to put the legwork in (agents, trade shows, learning your markets etc) and many SMEs (again anecdotal experience) don’t do this if they can keep their heads above water doing the easier sales.

Export figures from a macro perspective probably also support his argument – at least outside of the services sector.

Ironic though that the great export success story that is the City and associated professional services will be eviscerated by this idiots campaign for Brexit.

I hope theresa Teresa knows what she is doing by giving these fools enough rope. They can do a lot of day amaze before they hang themselves

I’m still thinking that the plan is to let the trio of fools make such a mess of the whole thing that the wider public will realise that is going to be too costly to pursue
And then she goes and releases her grammar schools pan flying in the face of the evidence that it’s worse for social mobility and attainment

visas for euro travel

Apparently we’re not going to get £350M/week for the NHS after all:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/brexit-camp-abandons-350-million-pound-nhs-pledge

Well they’ve got to pay all the lawyers and consultants first.

The new department charged with handling Brexit has spent more than £250,000 on legal advice over the past two months.

Government lawyers have been paid £33,000 a week to look into the legal implications for Britain leaving the EU.

This does not cover the cost of any external legal advice and the government has revealed plans for recruiting from outside the civil service are being “considered”.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/09/brexit-department-spends-more-than-250000-on-legal-advice-in-jus/

£10bn+ saving per anum pays for a lot of Brexit lawyers

Did we need visas to travel to Europe before ’73 (Soviet block excluded) ?

We didn’t need visas, but the world is a different place to 1973.

First time I went to France was on one of those passport things you got from the post office, and never actually showed it is to anyone. Before 9/11, it was never an issue going to the US either.

And £10bn, yer right…

We didn’t need visas, but the world is a different place to 1973.

Haven’t you heard? We’re getting our country back #

What £10 billion saving? The numbers get bigger with no justification
Yes we did need visas. I have a passport full of them. Usually just obtained at the border. After leaving the EU we would be treated like most other non eu entrants and require visas to enter which can no longer be obtained at the border but need to be done in advance and cost money.

That 10bn saving was all for the NHS wasn’t it? Don’t remember anything about spending it on lawyers. No buses painted with “Leave the EU so we can pay lawyers”.

Anyway, speaking of that NHS promise
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/brexit-camp-abandons-350-million-pound-nhs-pledge?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I always wondered how Vote Leave could claim we give the EU £350 million a week and £10 billion a year.

Maths would suggest that at least one of those figures is very wrong (and evidence suggests that both of them are! 😉 )

Don’t get bogged down by facts Graham, live the quit squad way where all things are true provided they agree with the general view that Britain isn’t great but cutting off one free access to our biggest non-domestic market and losing a source of skilled staff will make it great.

Ask Jamba he sort you out with some post-fact maths to square the circle.

To quote May, Brexit means bullshit

I thought they had already abandoned that “promise” the day after the referendum, saying it was a “mistake” to use it.

Did we need visas to travel to Europe before ’73 (Soviet block excluded) ?

No.

Remind me how big the ISIS threat was in 1973.

IRA back in ’73.

I remember flying to Dublin with no more than a bank card as ID in the early 90s.

Orwell made some good points about creating an enemy to unite people. ISIS weren’t a threat to this country until we made them one – there is a sensible conversation to be had about whether we needed to make an enemy of them ;and arguably we did) but they weren’t initially. Immigrants are another good example of a created enemy.

DrJ – we did. You got them atther border – a stamp in your passport but it still was a visa – just one that was free and obtained at the border

oldnpastit – Member
Apparently we’re not going to get £350M/week for the NHS after all:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/10/brexit-camp-abandons-350-million-pound-nhs-pledge

No news there. Every one of the five reasons used by the BSers was a lie. Their campaign made yS look honest which is a massive achievement in its own right. But they both share the same belief – that ends justify the means however dishonest the means may be.

Don’t worry you’ll not need a visa to enter the Free Yorkshire zone, just a copy of your bank statement (Yorkshire Bank) or your fully stuffed Mattress. We need to make sure you can afford to buy the beers.

But they both share the same belief – that ends justify the means however dishonest the means may be.

Well,let’s see if folk remember the lesson when the next Tory election manifesto comes out.

Don’t worry you’ll not need a visa to enter the Free Yorkshire zone, just a copy of your bank statement (Yorkshire Bank) or your fully stuffed Mattress. We need to make sure you can afford to buy the beers

Yorkshire Bank which is owned by the aussies?

Did we need visas to travel to Europe before ’73 (Soviet block excluded) ?

I have a very old passport full of stamps from French and Spanish passport control from crossing back-and-forth over the Pyrenees.

At what point are the idiots just going to own up and admit this was all a really bad idea (or more likely they will out of their inflated egos and arrogance press on irrespective and present it as some success – free trade with Aus ffs – and blame others for their failure as Fox is already doing)and apologise – if they want a volunteer scapegoat to go off to Brussels and wear sackcloth and ashes ill willingly put my hand up just to put and end to this farce.

Loved the pictures of the EU flags at last night of the proms.

I loved the Brexiters getting all shirty about it even more.

After article 50, that figure has been predicted to rise to around £25m a week, so likely to more than wipe out the costs of paying into the EU.

the urge to bluster is universal among reckless men who have risked everything. They boom that events have proved them right, as if booming can drown the thought that they have made a colossal error. As their mistakes can cause the worst damage, politicians, propagandists and the politically committed in general are the worst blusterers of all.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/sep/10/why-would-eu-appease-deluded-brexiters?CMP=fb_gu

We must never under estimate the ability of our leaders to **** up any situation for the most amount of money possible.

It’s OK – if we promise to take the asylum seekers from Sangatte, then we’ll get visa free travel. They did the same for the Turks didn’t they?

I bet the brexit department will need headed note paper. That paper will need a logo. That logo will need to be designed by beardy no socks. Obviously the design consultation will need to go to tender. No doubt a committee will have to go through all the tenders and have long drawn out business lunches deciding.
After all they’ve got £350000000 to spunk away in the most useless way possible.

The Liam Fox thing:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-37324491

Check my logic for me here, someone?

Fox said this:

“”This country is not the free-trading nation it once was. We have become too lazy, and too fat on our successes in previous generations,” he said.”

Is that not the same thing as saying that being part of the EU made/makes trade easier than being outside? Being that we’re the 5th (or whatever it is now) largest economy on the planet- a situation built by being inside Europe.

This seems to the obvious corollary to what he said, but it seems so obvious that I need to check I’m not missing a point.

Anyone?

When was it the free trading nation it once was or are we back to the Crimson Permanent Assurance thing again. Is he confusing free trade with simply pinching other peoples countries which is generally frowned upon in these more enlightened times.

“Yorkshire Bank which is owned by the aussies?”

Them colonials can ave what they like as long as the buy the beer.

Well,let’s see if folk remember the lesson when the next Tory election manifesto comes out.

Why Tory – they should all be the same and held account for what they say.

You “may” find this week’s leader in The Economist of interest Doc, since it is entitled “Art of the lie” with the subtitle

Politicians have always lied. Does it matter if they leave the truth behind entirely.

What Trump, the BSers and yS did was very much leaving truth behind entirely and did so/do so willfully. I will let you read The Economist article yourself. Suffice to say that at the very least I agree with their semi-conclusion that

It is tempting to thibk that, when policies sold on dodgy prospectuses (eg Scotland’s Future) start to fail, lied to supporters might see the error of their ways. The worst part of post-truth politics, though, is that this self-correction cannot be relied on

Indeed.

they should all be the same and held account for what they say.

Indeed so.

Why Tory

Because their porkies seem to be more significant, convincing the ordinary punter that policies which will not benefit them in the slightest are in fact in their best interest. Turkeys, Christmas, that stuff.

Oh I see.

well they did lie about austerity, true, but in the end that was a good thing. Markets fooled and they ran an expansionary fiscal policy instead. Basta**s.

£10bn+ saving per anum pays for a lot of Brexit lawyers

FFS stop repeating that BS – we all know the real figure & it’d be greatly appreciated I’d you’d stop treating everyone like fools.

Otherwise you just come across as a condescending f****r!

you cannot expect our resident expert with a degree in maths and decades of working in the upper echelons of the city to be able to accurately state the financial figures

I wonder what happen when promises in the Better Together programme start to disappear Thm .How many ships are being built on the Clyde? Did pensions turn out to be safe with Better Together and did a no vote guarantee EU membership as they claimed?