MSP I have only ever reported one person and that was when I recently lost patience at being called a racist. I am not big on political correctness and the factvisnthe EU is now a club of members most pf which are substabtially poorer than us and all lf the recent joiners and future members substantially so. We PAY for access to that market 😯 If you don’t like what I post just scroll-on-by

Here is a quote from the Business for Britain site

Approximately 70% of the UK’s exports, of both goods and services, take place under the free market trade rules of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), with average tariff rates at 3%. The remaining 30% take place under the rules of our only trade deal. Known as the Single Market, it covers the trade of goods, but not services, within the EU.

We need to work hard to reduce our trade with the EU on a relative basis further from the 30% figure as fhe EU is bust, its madness to rely on it

TMH US, Australia, Canada, etc etc all doing terribly. We are doing better than the EU and we are propping them up ?

Thanks soma – now I don’t know what the tarif would be but you could import directly form supplier or pay the extra for the convenience, thats a business choice, i understand the power of the staus-quo, don’t rock the boat etc but its my view none of that was worth the cost of being in the EU

Also is cocoa not one of the commodities which the EU ensures it protects the interests of (rich) EU refiners/manufacturers at the expense of (very poor) growers in Africa etc ? If is me I’d rather help out Africans than Belgians in this scenario

5th, I thought remain would win – but only narrowly. I make no claims of infallibility, but I’m right a lot more than most people 🙂

I doubt we the only small business doing enough to get by at the moment and support 40odd very rural jobs in a shrinking job market area of scotland, it only takes a small degree of volatility in the market to make increased duties very worrisome. I’m sure other smb’s are in the same boat so to speak.

5th, I thought remain would win – but only narrowly. I make no claims of infallibility, but I’m right a lot more than most people

😆 no shortage of people who think like that posting here!

Go for it MSP, never even had a warning. Dig up all the old posts, knock yourself out

Approximately 70% of the UK’s exports, of both goods and services, take place under the free market trade rules of the World Trade Organisation (WTO), with average tariff rates at 3%. The remaining 30% take place under the rules of our only trade deal. Known as the Single Market, it covers the trade of goods, but not services, within the EU.

So what’s the score with services? Are there rules/tariffs?

Anyone?

How sweet – Jamba hurls around accusations of anti-Semitism left right and centre but gets all delicate when on the receiving end.

Hes definitely part of the problem Dr J

The moderators have been very poor in dealing with your racism, I regret not reporting you now.

I got a post deleted and a warning from a moderator for saying “a bigot’s logic is something to behold” with reference to jambalaya.

So I suspect you might be wasting your time.

TMH US, Australia, Canada, etc etc all doing terribly. We are doing better than the EU and we are propping them up ?

No they are not. But note that they seek to integrate with other nations not isolate themselves.

Our relative performance versus the EU is patchy to say the least

As for propping up that is more VL BS – it doesn’t take much understanding to realise that the cost of membership – even with VL lies – is not the same as the economic cost or benefit. Only politicians who are trying to deliberately trying to mislead would try to conflate the ideas

But it would be another F is KS1 Economics to add to the long list of BS from VL. Truly shameful

#outofcontrol

I think the bullying of Jamba needs to stop.. it is spreading and it all looks a bit ‘lord of the flies’

Read the forum rules and if you don’t like’em go play elsewhere

Well said theocb. Rein it in a bit you lot.

“And I can teach thee, coz, to shame the devil
By telling truth: tell truth and shame the devil.
If thou have power to raise him, bring him hither,
And I’ll be sworn I have power to shame him hence.
O, while you live, tell truth and shame the devil!”

I think the bullying of Jamba needs to stop.. it is spreading and it all looks a bit ‘lord of the flies’

+1

Play the ball not the man.

It’s pretty obvious he is as divisive on here as Farage is in the real world and like Farage he revels in it and plays up to it.

You are free to admire, defend or mock this as you see fit

He is also very fast and lose with the facts to the extent that his statements almost always include things that are just clearly not true- I dont mean opinions but he twice claimed yesterday that Holland and France voted against the Lisbon treaty which is just not true
He even claimed France voted against Maastricht when they voted in favour of it. There are multiple examples of these basic factual errors daily from him

if you keep doing this on STW you will keep getting “bullied”

I have not been online today so go knows what happened today so its a general comment not a specific one.

Oh and he said that anyone who criticizes Israel is a racist who dislikes Jews which is both insulting and complete bollocks.

If a serious internet discussion on any topic is to have any value there must be some sort of gentlemans’ agreement that people will as far as possible stick to the facts, and be ready to support their views with some sort of references to verifiable sources. If that agreement is not respected it spoils the forum for everybody. So it’s all well and good to talk about playing the ball, but if one of the “men” has not respected the rules of the game it makes no difference to the outcome – the value of the discussion is lost.

he revels in it

If so that would be all the more reason to stop doing it.

If a serious internet discussion on any topic is to have any value there must be some sort of gentlemans’ agreement that people will as far as possible stick to the facts

Indeed, and all logical fallacies including Ad Homs are not sticking to the facts which is why people need to stop using them.

If the entire forum wants to start ignoring his every post and we all collectively turn our back on him then I am happy to join in
Till then, like Farage, I will challenge his views

Time to calm it surely

Enough is enough – the ball is big enough to play IT

I think the bullying of Jamba needs to stop.. it is spreading and it all looks a bit ‘lord of the flies’

I think there’s a valid point there. And I did say in my response to the mod’s warning “Jambalaya’s one redeeming quality is that he takes robust criticism extremely imo – he takes on the chin without whingeing”.

Actually he has another one imo, he’s also got a sense of humour.

However if Nigel Farage’s anti-foreigner anti-Muslim tendencies can be challenged on here then I can’t see why Jambalaya should get a particularly easy ride when he regurgitates them.

EDIT : “Till then, like Farage, I will challenge his views” Snap!

FTSE closes above pre-Brexit level, French, German and Spanish Mkts all still down. Now in fairness FTSE 250 is still lower but I expect this to be corrected. As I said Brexit is worse for them than us

Indeed, and all logical fallacies including Ad Homs are not sticking to the facts which is why people need to stop using them.

That’s my point – mostly they do avoid personal attacks, but when one member just ignores convention then there’s no point in arguing seriously and it becomes a circus.

I’d listen to his arguments if they were well constructed and backed up.

I though you also said yesterday that your predictions were for the medium and long term I did not realise that meant later this week .

We are in the eye of the storm basically

Analysts said the sharp recovery in the FTSE 100 was unexpected.
“It is safe to say that, of all the post Brexit outcomes discussed across the City over the past few months, ‘buying frenzy’ was not one that was viewed as very likely,” said Chris Beauchamp, senior market analyst at spread betting firm IG.
“The plethora of bargains on offer, plus a welcome period of calm in the UK/EU relationship has provided the opportunity for markets to recover in impressive fashion,” he added.
However Joe Rundle, head of trading at ETX Capital, warned reality was likely to bite soon.
“What we’re seeing in the FTSE is hope in Britain being able to ride it out by remaining part of the single market. This looks like wishful thinking.”
The FTSE 250 – which contains more UK-focused companies – closed 3.2% higher on Wednesday, but still remains more than 7% below its pre-Brexit level.

Case in point:

FTSE closes above pre-Brexit level, French, German and Spanish Mkts all still down. Now in fairness FTSE 250 is still lower but I expect this to be corrected. As I said Brexit is worse for them than us

Just yesterday he was telling us that short term figures don’t prove anything. Today he says the opposite. This is why he is not taken seriously.

The mods are getting a lot of reports from all sides on this thread accusing each other of everything from trolling to out right bullying. This is the only warning I’m going to give before the ban stick comes in and brings it to an end.

The issues around the referendum are important and deserve to be debated. But if you resort to personal attacks then you are going to have your account suspended. Tale a breath, read your response through twice before you hit post.

Enough naval gazing for me…exits to do better things

well said mark

To make it clear I am only trying to challenge his arguments – I have no problem with him as a person, specifically because he is always calm and polite and I respect that.

.

Enough naval gazing for me…exits to do better things

Junkyard earlier.

As a casual observer please don’t stop this thread, it’s been excellent for some analysis of what’s going on and views from a wider range of angles can be found in any other single place.

If a serious internet discussion on any topic is to have any value there must be some sort of gentlemans’ agreement that people will as far as possible stick to the facts, and be ready to support their views with some sort of references to verifiable sources.

But facts are exactly what have been in short supply throughout this whole sorry exercise.

DC it has been suggested played a blinder by immediately announcing his resignation and handing the shit sandwich to his successor. There is certainly a “quote” that has been doing the rounds on facebook, and even analysed by new channels in agreement, and been posted here several times.

But actually I am beginning to think quite the opposite (and I am talking about post result here not the stupidity of holding the referendum in the first place). His statements have set out limited choices, these are not just for his successor to resolve but for the country.

He could have resigned with a very different message. He could have said that the result was close, that it was not an overwhelming victory, that the result had to taken very seriously but that his successor and the house of commons had to decide what path to take. He should not have stated that this was a definite mandate to activate clause 50, even if he believes it was he did not need to start the clock ticking now. There could have been time to plan a course of action.

IMO he has acted to spite his successor and the leave campaign, and weakened the countries position by doing so.

But actually I am beginning to think quite the opposite (and I am talking about post result here not the stupidity of holding the referendum in the first place). His statements have set out limited choices, these are not just for his successor to resolve but for the country.

He could have resigned with a very different message. He could have said that the result was close, that it was not an overwhelming victory, that the result had to taken very seriously but that his successor and the house of commons had to decide what path to take. He should not have stated that this was a definite mandate to activate clause 50, even if he believes it was he did not need to start the clock ticking now. There could have been time to plan a course of action.

IMO he has acted to spite his successor and the leave campaign, and weakened the countries position by doing so.

I suspect the same myself – it does appear to be deliberately making life harder for the bloke who has to back-pedal out of this fix.

However, I do wonder if the real intention was to make it *really* look like we’re leaving to spook the EU into giving us some kind of major concession in future.

Or does he just want to look like a ‘good’ loser and fully accept the loss?

I don’t think he was just knackered and speaking of the cuff because he subsequently made similar comments, including yesterday.

I will deffo be reading any books Cameron or Corbyn write to get the inside story on the freaky events of this last week.

It just one big game for the vile people.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/29/michael-goves-wife-doubts-boris-johnson-email-sarah-vine-dacre-murdoch?CMP=fb_gu

of course . he has been betrayed by some of his closest allies and friends .

Yep I saw that earlier, while t6hey hide, they are arguing over who gets the biggest pieces of the pie.