I need to wire in a new fused connection unit in readiness for a new boiler which is being fitted at home next week. I’m sure I have read / heard somewhere that there is a maximum length of flex which can extend from the fcu to the appliance, but can’t find refernece to this regulation anywhere. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

To be honest, if you don’t know the answer then you probably aren’t qualified to do the work and sign it off.

I’d suggest getting a qualified sparkie in to do it.

http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg231.pdf

Work safely
Make sure that people who are working with electricity are competent to do the job. Even simple tasks such as wiring a plug can lead to danger – ensure that people know what they are doing before they start.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Book/1.2.2.htm

http://www.diynot.com/pages/el/el024.php

http://www.diydata.com/planning/ring_main/ring_main.php

http://www.lets-do-diy.com/Projects-and-advice/Electrical/Installing-a-fused-connection-unit-FCU.aspx

+++++what funky says

Harsh….the guy has thought about it and is following regs!

It’s all very well following the regs, but unless you are deemed a ‘competent person’ as defined by the IEE part ‘P’ regulations, you are not allowed to sign off on work such as this.

Which you might think is not a problem, but without it being signed off it does nasty things like invalidate your house insurance.

Maybe his sparky is going to test it and sign it off?

Mine did.

Then I’d assume his sparky would know the answer!

If its not in your kitchen, i dont think you do need to be a “competent person” because its a simple spur. The regs promote good wiring design, so you do not want to long a flex, and clearly sighted next to the boiler. I am a sparky, and have fitted quite a few fcus for boilers, but cant remermber seeing reference in the guide.

Well, along with the boiler location (kitchen/bathroom/etc) it will also depend to a certain extent whether it’s a spur off an existing ring main or a new fused spur from the consumer unit, as to whether it needs a part p sign off.

It will also depend where the op lives, if he lives in Scotland part P does not come into it nor does it need to be signed off.

I cant remember all of the regs but I would imagine that they wont give a defined length, more something along the lines of “… wiring shall be suitable for the environment and location …”

Basically as mentioned above just keep it as short and as neat as possible, maybe get some mini trunking and run the flex inside that if it seems too long a run.

Funky – From the tone of your answer I guess you are an insecure sparky who isnt finding much work. That being the case, you should know that fitting a spur (not in a bathroom, outside or kitchen) from a ring doesnt need signing off. And even if it did, this work can still be undertaken as a DIY under building control.

Thanks for the advise Lee – I have spoken to the plumber and he has confirmed within ‘arms reach’ of the boiler.

marcus… not a sparky I’m afraid, but I do have a copy of the latest wiring regs.. :o)

Was just trying to be helpful as it seems there are far more people who are not aware of the regs than are, and seeing as it could result in someone not being covered by insurance, I’d much prefer to make someone aware of the issue.

Where do you get this ‘not covered by insurance’ from?
Absolute rubbish.
Please post a link to an Insurance Companies schedule that says you need all of your electrical work done by a Part P sparky.
Clue – You wont find one.

To the OP, no, there is no specific limit as to the length of a spur off of a ring (or radial) circuit. You need to be aware of any potential voltage drop along its length, and use cable of an appropriate size. In a typical house, 2.5mm T+E for ring mains/radials will nearly always be correct, but check first what you are connecting to, and the potential demand of anything that is likely to be used on that circuit.
For a boiler, I would recommend a dedicated line from your CU – far easier to isolate the boiler, as well as not disturbing the boiler if work has to be done on anything else on an attached circuit.
Alan.

Where do you get this ‘not covered by insurance’ from?
Absolute rubbish.
Please post a link to an Insurance Companies schedule that says you need all of your electrical work done by a Part P sparky.
Clue – You wont find one.

The insurance companies don’t need to put that on their schedules because by law you need either a Part P competent person or notify the local authority that certain types of work are being carried out on domestic properties.

You’ll find more and more insurance companies insisting on fixed wiring inspections and the like when it comes to commercial stuff.

Yes, ‘certain types of work’, are required to be done by a Part P qualified sparky.(and Part P qualified does not mean a great deal on its own, a labourer can fit your wiring if his employer is Part P registered, but the time served, 20 years in the job sparky cannot do it, as he has never taken his 2 hour multiple choice, 60 question exam)
A job such as fitting a boiler spur, does not need to be notified, as either there is already spur there, or it is off an existing circuit, so does not need certification.
A new circuit to the boiler should be certified, but in general, there is little advantage in doing so. It is no use to a seller, as the buyers solicitor will want a full inspection of the wiring anyway.
In domestic properties, Insurance companies make no distinction at all between DIY work and professional work, unless it was clearly faulty/dangerous when fitted.
Since Part P was introduced, there has been an increase in electrical accidents, so it’s supposed aim has not been met, and has got worse.

Ask any local authority inspector what he/she thinks of Part P. All of them disregard it when it comes to such minor things as adding a spur. AFAIAA, there have been no prosecutions at all over DIYers doing Part p assigned work. If you know different, please give a link.
Alan.

alan… well, one of the places I got that ‘not covered by insurance’ from was after I spoke to my insurance company about it, while trying to buy a house where the previous owners had work done, in the kitchen and bathroom, without it being signed off.

And yes, I am well aware of the silliness that is part p, after all, I’m allowed to sign off on train electrical wiring, but not on the wiring in my own house!

While I know there have been a number of professionals prosecuted against part p, I doubt that they would prosecute anyone for doing diy, in the same way they don’t tend to prosecute people doing diy for other breaches of the building regulations. However, that doesn’t mean that when you build you new extension without the proper sign offs that the insurance company will pay out once it falls down. It’s exactly the same for part p work, and for gas work, if you manage to burn your house down! I’d be surprised if after a house fire these aren’t some of the first certificates that are asked for by the insurance company for any recent electrical/gas works…

Oh, and isn’t adding a new spur to the CU notifiable work? ;o)

Oh, and isn’t adding a new spur to the CU notifiable work? ;o)

Yep

Since Part P was introduced, there has been an increase in electrical accidents, so it’s supposed aim has not been met, and has got worse.

I was merely pointing out the legal position. As nick has pointed out, a number of competent persons/pseudo sparks or whatever have been prosecuted. I think Part P is ridiculous and organisations like the NICEIC have impressed upon Government this kind of scheme, which also makes the NICEIC(a registered charity 🙄 ) a lot of money. I would prefer the Australian version of a Government scheme where only fully qualified sparks can do the job.

agreed sonor

Here I am JIB regestered Approved electrician 30 years of knowledge

Every single qualification ( bar part P) I can do anything for my employer including domestic work

Yet I cannot do my own house 😕 er offically

Pretty sure I once saw a reference to a max of three metres.

Seen plenty of Part P qualified electricians wandering around with £££££’s worth of Fluke hanging from their necks – they’ve passed the tests and they know the meters giving a faulty reading, but often they don’t know why or how to resolve it.

OG

Basically

All the kit and full of shat

“I was merely pointing out the legal position. As nick has pointed out, a number of competent persons/pseudo sparks or whatever have been prosecuted”

Please give a link to these?
I havent heard of anyone doing a job, not informing building control of it, then being prosecuted.
If they have done a crap job, then yes, they may well have been prosecuted for dangerous work, but not for defying the Building Inspector by failing to get it Certified.
As you know, anyone can get their electrical work passed by informing the Council, who will then send someone to test it.
But I dont believe anyone has been prosecuted for not informing the council.
Alan.

Please give a link to these?

http://www.escweb.org.uk/news-and-events/latest-news/More-Part-P-Prosecutions-id-10.html

http://www.voltimum.co.uk/news/8249/s/ESC-welcomes-Part-P-Prosecution.html

I havent heard of anyone doing a job, not informing building control of it, then being prosecuted.

If you are referring to DIY’ers, Probably not. I do find it odd that people will dable with electrics in their home, but anything to do with Gas, they get a professional in. Is electricity less dangerous or something?

Err, yes, prosecutions for bad work, which is entirely appropriate.

Again, I have never heard of anyone being prosecuted for not filling in their paperwork for Part P.
If they have done poor quality work, then they should clearly not certify it correctly, so will be prosecuted for their bad work. This would apply whetehr Part P was here or not.
If you put in a new ring main, and fail to pass the details on to either the Council or Trade Body, then there will be no prosecution if the work is to an acceptable standard. The Trade Body if informed of this lack of paperwork, will give you a warning to not do it again, the Council will give you 28 days to get it certified.

Councils are totally uninterested in minor works, and even re-wires. They do take an interest (only in passing) on new builds/extensions, but otherwise are pretty indifferent to a new socket in a bedroom.

Alan.

alan… firstly, a new socket in a bedroom isn’t notifiable if it’s a spur off an existing ring main.. ;o)

I would imagine that at least part of those prosecutions would be for failing to fill in their paperwork, but as you say, I think it would be very doubtful if they would prosecute purely over failing to do the paperwork.

But, the point I was trying to make, regardless of how crap the overall system is, is that not having the work signed off is technically, however minor, an offense.

Now, can you show me an insurance company who will pay out on something that has had illegal work done on it?

Without that certificate showing the work has been completed and signed off by the sparkie, in the case of a fire the immediate assumption by the insurance companies will be that the wiring was at fault and, as it’s technically been done illegally, would refuse to pay out.

I do find it odd that people will dable with electrics in their home, but anything to do with Gas, they get a professional in

…and working on gas only requires you to be ‘competent’ in relation to the work that you are carrying out; for DIY it is arguable that this is actually less restrictive than Part P.

look to be brutally honest the wiring regulation have derived from the only time in history that electrical experiments were carried out on mankind to the stage that it kills and that is what we call the HOLOCAUST where the Nazi’s did what they did in the concetration camps.

Not a nice thought eh!!

So ask yourself is DIY worth it?????

anyone dissagree??