Election Stuff - One for the Scots

Chat Forum

[closed]

Election Stuff - One for the Scots

58 posts & 28 voices | Started 2 years ago by Coyote | Latest reply from coffeeking

Tags:

Pages: « Previous 12

gonefishin - Member

but without the scots and welsh MP's that makes England Tory forever ...he who laughs last laughs longest

Totally wrong I'm afraid. I challenge you to find one election outcome when the govenrment of the day did not win the majority of seats in England (Hung parliaments excluded). Even in the last general election the Labour party had an overall majority of seats in England. The simple fact is that the government is decided by the voters of England and provided we don't end up with a tyranny of the majority this is perfectly right and proper.

Posted 2 years ago #
Coyote - Member

Back at the start, Plaid Cymru and the SNP suggested an extra debate to cover relevant topics to the devolved nations

Sounds sensible.

Posted 2 years ago #
TandemJeremy - Member

There is no doubt that TV coverage of politics is badly skewed in favour of the main marties. The SNP are th largest party in Scotland and their votes could make the difference in a hung parliament. SNP could have 10 - 20 seats. I expect them to make serious gains.

Scenario - Cameron is 5 short of a majority - Promises Salmond a proper referendum on Scottish independence in exchange for supporting a Tory Queens speech. Votes for the SNP become rather important then? There is also the ulster unionists - they might support a Tory Queens speech.

So - its the latest in a series of structural issues that reduce media coverage for the SNP and other smaller / regional parties. Thats what he is whinging about. I think the court case is a mistake tho.

Posted 2 years ago #
gusamc - Member

gonefishin

"The simple fact is that the government is decided by the voters of England "

"More people voted for the Conservatives in England than for Labour - but the Conservatives won 92 seats less than Labour within England (285 to 193). The Conservatives received 60,000 more votes than Labour in England."

http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/2005_british_general_election.htm

Posted 2 years ago #
duckman - Member

Salmond is Gordon Brown on an "E" We are a wee bit shown up by his constant sabre-rattling.A childish-small-minded bully IMO.I may be biased as I work in education,scene of his biggest foul-ups.

BTW;I liked the recent uk gov poll where 55% of Southern Britons said they would not be bothered if Scotland left the Union.......But 95% said they should not keep the oil if they did!

Posted 2 years ago #
hilldodger - Member

So if Scotland does ever become fully independent does that imply it becomes a discrete country with it's own passport, head of state, currency etc...

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

The simple fact is that the government is decided by the voters of England and provided we don't end up with a tyranny of the majority this is perfectly right and proper.

So it is right and proper that English people decide who rules in Scotland and Wales then.... I do beg to differ as indeed did the people of Scotland and Wales when they had to endure Thatcher and Nu Labour.
That link above not withstanding yes my 22 year old E grade A level for Politics seems to be an accurate assesment of my grasp of the subject - yes I am wrong not sure where i got the info from but yes it is not true.

Posted 2 years ago #
duckman - Member

And the associated costs of running defence etc......One of the reasons for the rough wooing in the first place.We wiz pure borassic man!

Edit;Junkyard, since we are not independent countries,the majority will over the whole of the UK is the government. None of the nationalist parties have managed an overall majority in Wales Scotland,or correct me if I am wrong, Yorkshire.However the counter to that is Tam Dayell's West lothian question,one of the interesting paradoxes in UK politics.

Posted 2 years ago #
molgrips - Member

SNP are not a UK party. So why have them in the debate. You gonna ask Salmond what he's going to do when he's PM? No, cos he's not going to be.

Posted 2 years ago #
hels - Member

And on a more amusing note - did anybody see Tommy Sheridan's party political broadcast the other day ? Hilarious home-made ad !!

He'd get my vote anyway after Hooker-gate (for the entertainement value) - but sadly they don't even attempt to run in my electorate.

Posted 2 years ago #
gonefishin - Member

gusamc, I know that in 2005 there were more votes cast for the Conservative government in England that for Labour however the fact still remains that the Labour party won a majority of seats and if the Westminter parliament were decided solely on the election results in England, the Labour party would still have formed the government. Any argument against this is an argument against our electoral system, but it does not support the notion that without Scottish and Welsh Labour MPs, England would be permanantly Tory.

So it is right and proper that English people decide who rules in Scotland and Wales then....

Insofar as it is right for the majority of the population to decide on the outcome of an election yes that is right and proper.

...as indeed did the people of Scotland and Wales when they had to endure Thatcher and Nu Labour.

Yes we did have to endure a Conservative government that we didn't vote for, but then so did areas like Yorkshire and the North East of England (I think!).

Posted 2 years ago #
Super Scale 20 - Member

They don’t represent the UK that’s it finish story over!

Posted 2 years ago #
epicyclo - Member

hilldodger - Member
So if Scotland does ever become fully independent does that imply it becomes a discrete country with it's own passport, head of state, currency etc...

and its own navy, army, and airforce to defend its oil and fishing interests

Wonder what we would do with our share of the nuclear armament? Doubt we would want it - no point nuking England, and they're the only obvious target. Maybe sell them - bound to be a keen market.

Posted 2 years ago #
Junkyard - Member

None of the nationalist parties have managed an overall majority in Wales Scotland,or correct me if I am wrong, Yorkshire

Ok I correct you Wales in 1999 and 2003. As one uses PR and one uses FPTP you are comparing chalk and cheeese anyway. Given similiar electoral systems I suspect they would have identical results ie balanced if using PR or a winner using FPTP

Yes we did have to endure a Conservative government that we didn't vote for, but then so did areas like Yorkshire and the North East of England (I think!).

True but you cannot deny Scotland has a seperate country where as most people in Yorkshire, begrudgingly, do accpet that they are English just

Posted 2 years ago #
uplink - Member

where as most people in Yorkshire, begrudgingly, do accpet that they are English just

Only in a dual nationality sort of way

Posted 2 years ago #
west kipper - Member

I notice that the English dislike of Ecky Salmond is directly related to how effective you lot think he's being.
I wasn't originally an SNP supporter, more on the old-Labour side, but have been fairly (Trump aside) impressed with their conduct and aims- largely to the left of Labour. I think thats very in tune with the majority of Scots, and I'm confident their share of the vote will go up.
Anyway good luck to them over their challenge.

Posted 2 years ago #
duckman - Member

SNP lost;So PC won a majority in two elections,that suprises me.Fair enough,but what about Scotland and Yorkshire? SNP can't claim a majority and Indy is a very strong point of their manifesto. Talk of Scotland being able to run a navy etc are way wide of the mark.Our Navy at the time of the Union consisted of three unseaworthy Barges.(seriously)

Posted 2 years ago #
west kipper - Member

So I see, the joys of being out all day.

Posted 2 years ago #
missingfrontallobe - Member

trailmonkey - Member
I think it highlights the absurdity of having a Scottish parliament and a UK parliament.

Just dissolve the Union and have done with it.

+1.

Posted 2 years ago #
epicyclo - Member

duckman - Member
...Talk of Scotland being able to run a navy etc are way wide of the mark...

We are no longer being ruled by genocidal Stuart kings, so I'm sure we'd manage a navy ok.

Posted 2 years ago #
benz - Member

Ah, what a fine party - The English Democrats Party.

Loved the all-inclusive nature of their recent political broadcast indeed.

Salmond? Would not vote for his party, being a Scot who thinks we have no need for that farce in Edinburgh, but.....I reckon he could run rings round the other 3 chaps in open discussion.

Perhaps the Beeb fear that he and Gordie will get revenge by turning up in plaid and sending the other 2 home to think again?

Sadly, in terms of hydrocarbon resources and the EU, perhaps the UK should have looked to Norway for some assistance....but only until the hydrocarbons are finally expended of course.

Posted 2 years ago #
duckman - Member

We are no longer being ruled by genocidal Stuart kings, so I'm sure we'd manage a navy ok.

We could be! The line is alive and well and in France.One of them keeps trying to sue the "British" Government to demand his country back.He comes across as nutty as any of his Ancestors!

Posted 2 years ago #
coffeeking - Member

We are no longer being ruled by genocidal Stuart kings, so I'm sure we'd manage a navy ok.

Not enough of you or enough cash to buy the kit, it'd be a bunch of neds in hijacked ferries

<runs and hides with the mad grin of a maniac>

Posted 2 years ago #