[Closed] Ebike Haters Talk To Me

People don't like change.

And

1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.

I chatted with two chaps of about my age riding them in Scotland. For them both, E-bikes were a way to return to rides that they couldn't do any more. I can see that, with health issues, I may need one for that reason. Also because a long lay-off means a slow and depressing return to fitness, so help may be useful there. But I'd want to ride a normal bike, too.

Hooning around Swinley and claiming Strava records are something else, altogether.

its cheating

Not racing? It isn't. Be sure not to scratch your bike putting it on the uplift truck/gondola.

its not cycling

You turn the pedals, the bike goes forward...

motor+bike=motorbike

Totally different to a motorbike. So says the law.

heavy

No heavier than a DH bike of 10 years ago, will get lighter as tech improves, much like DH bikes have...

if the battery dies you'll be stranded

You turn the pedals, the bike goes forward... a bit slower.

erosion

Power delivery is smoother, so less mashing the pedals, causing the bike to lose traction. Not powerful enough to 'roost'

i saw one go 100mph

That's a motorbike. Not an ebike.

strava

If it means that much to you, report it. But, 15mph isn't [i]that [/i] fast. Train harder?

only for the old/disabled/injured

Exactly how old/disabled/injured?

Pretty sure that's it, not doubt they'll have a few surprises in store though. Hating on ebikes means you are a real, super fit, pure cyclist, full of machismo. That and trolls be trollin'.

slowoldgit nails it.

For. My neighbour is awaiting a heart transplant and can now get out and about.
Against. Chipped up e bikes turning into the favoured transport of pikey chavs.

My beef is the creep towards them being the 'norm' in successive years we've been told they're the next big thing, they're going to be massive and sure enough people who are paid to give their opinion on such things (and perhaps told what to say) are cheering from the rooftops about how great they are, how it's not about making it easier, it's about going further in the same time and most dubiously of all about how much fun they are up AND down hill and how you don't notice all the extra weight.

For someone like me it represents a problem and a solution - reaching 40 this year I'm being reminded that I'm on the downslope of life and one day I might need an E-Bike and for that I'm more than glad they exist and they're getting better all the time, but on the flip side one day, probably soon because of all the hype and PR surrounding them someone is going to turn up for one of our group rides on one, they'll leave everyone behind on the climbs and because it's new they'll say how wonderful it is and because they won't want to seem lazy they talk about it being different, not easier and a few more will get them and then the normal bike riders are holding them back and in the end we'll all have to buy one just to stick with the pack. Bit over the top? My little riding group has been in a bike space race for over ten years, more travel, more slack angles, more carbon, bigger wheels, carbon wheels, more gears, less gears, droppers etc etc every innovation has played its part in making us all a little bit quicker but they're not life or death - our newest member on his 10 year old hand me down bike is still in the mix with the lads with the latest carbon everything bikes - but e-bikes are such a game changer it won't end well.

P-Jay - Member

For someone like me it represents a problem and a solution - reaching 40 this year I'm being reminded that I'm on the downslope of life

Poor old soul - 40? That old? So you might need an e-bike in 30 years then?

Fortunateson09 - Member
So my simple question is, what is your beef with ebikes?

My honest, simple, answer?

If you want to ride a motorbike, buy a motorbike.

Having ridden powered and non-powered two-wheelers for longer than I care to remember, I see no difference between ebikes and motorbikes.

@Andy R

Yes, the hole mid-life thing is a reminder that I'm not immortal and yes one day I will be old so I'm glad they exist for when that day comes.

P-Jay - Member
@Andy R

Yes, the hole mid-life thing is a reminder that I'm not immortal and yes one day I will be old so I'm glad they exist for when that day comes.

I'm already old and when I can't be arsed to ride a mountain bike anymore I'll just probably go back to riding a trials bike. I think pretty much like bensales ^^^, to be honest.

Having ridden powered and non-powered two-wheelers for longer than I care to remember, I see no difference between ebikes and motorbikes.

Either you are not telling the truth. Or you are not very clever.

Not sure which 😆

I like riding up hills. I can still do it. Some people can't ride up hills or don't want to.
I don't really care what other people are doing as long as they aren't being dicks.

I have no problem with e bikes, I'm just a bit bored of the bull crap excuses some people make, when really all they want is to be first up a hill/round a trail and show off about it as if they did all the work themselves.

Conversely some people hate ebikes because they are scared of having their 28 second strava KOM (ridden by 15 people in total) taken off them.

Basically it's all crap

E bike are for lazy fat people.

They remove the boring bits, ie going uphill from riding a bike. Makes more time for the fun stuff. People who think a 15mph ebike is a motocrosser are morons.

I just like the idea of getting to places under my own steam, however old and crap I might be. Once you add a motor then a lot of that satisfaction must surely dissappear? I can accept that everyone gets something different out of a ride - for me it's mainly about techy climbs and descents (cleaned if possible, naturally) whereas others might focus purely on speed, or distance, or big gap jumps or whatever floats their boat.

Like I've said, I'm just an old ex trials rider but the stuff that I miss doing on a trials bike I probably wouldn't be doing on an e-bike, any more than on a "proper" mtb.

They are a lot of fun, I don't want one but they are here to stay. Tomhoward I would say of the battery ran out then you'd struggle to pedal one very far without being exhausted and they can easily cause more erosion if you're in turbo mode constantly, and yes I have ridden quite a few with different battery systems.

Tried a friend's loaner Spec Turbo Levo a couple of weeks ago and it was a hoot! Wouldn't want to lift it over any gates / onto a roofrack though..

I think Berocca put it best!

OP - if you're curious get and demo one and make up your own mind!

Yes, the hole mid-life thing is a reminder that I'm not immortal and yes one day I will be old so I'm glad they exist for when that day comes.

FFS sake get a grip of yourself. Buy a sports car, go skiing, or whatever. You live, you die, shit happens so crack on and enjoy what you can.

I just think it's brilliant that people who are too crap or unfit or old to ride properly can still get out on the hill. I also darkly look forward to the first mountain rescue call-out to someone with a flat battery in the middle of nowhere... 😉

I've beaten mates up climbs with the battery fitted but disconnected. Granted, I wouldn't want it to happen 50 miles from the nearest phone reception, but it's not like it explodes on reaching zero. I put it in the same bracket at the battery on Di2 gears dying. Planning should avoid any battery life issues

Even in turbo mode, the power delivery is so smooth on my levo It doesn't seem to lose traction, either that or the torque is so low it doesn't make any odds. I guess plus tyres help. It's not like you can wind on the power, then dump a clutch...

Planning should avoid any battery life issues

Just out of interest, how do the batteries cope with proper sub-zero conditions? Do they have some sort of indicator so you can see how much juice is left? Can you replace them with AAs as an emergency measure?

If ebikes become the norm, what will the generation that grow up with them be looking for when they get too old to keep up? An MTB simulator in their living room controlling a hologram avatar out on the trails?

If it gets more people on bikes then what's the issue?

It's the colour schemes for me.

riding an ebike isn't playing fair though is it? you're riding a bike with a motor, ergo it's a motorbike...

i can't think of a running equivalent, but i'm going to try anyway.

imagine you were a runner, into the running scene, in a running club, subscribed to a running mag, went on a running forum etc, had all the gear, had improved your health and fitness along the way, and had achieved certain milestones within the whole running "thing"... then someone brought out some fancy running shoes that made you run and perform 25% better than before... you still had to put effort in, but the gains were there for all to see...

how would that go down in the running world? i think we can all imagine can't we?

yes, people would say "ah, but as long as it gets people out running, then it's all good", or "when i'm in my 60's i'll get those shoes myself" etc...

but runners would know... people who consider what they do a "pure" sport would know... and they would never be happy with these shoe that are a cheat, neigh an affront, to what they love.

"these people running 10k's faster than me without putting in the hard miles, as i have, are bad people... i don't like them, nor the tech they are using", they would think...

and then, to add insult to injury, the mags, the forums, the very scene itself started to embracing this form of cheating.... well this is too much, they would think... this is just too much

then someone turns up on a club run (A CLUB RUN)in these blasted things... bah!!!!

"but it's not a race" someone would pipe in "where's the issue?"...
"so f$&%ing what!?!?" the [u]real[/u] runner would scream, (internally).

and they (the ones who consider themselves to be the real runners) would spout bile everytime these new [s]ebikes[/s],sorry, shoes were mentioned...

does that cover how i feel? cos it should.

Tomhoward, different battery/motors put out power in different ways, some are much punchier than others. They aren't unrideable with the battery flat but it's not pleasant.

Kind of depends on the kind of riding you're doing. If you're into all-day / multi-day wilderness trips, they're less than ideal. I must admit, I'm a bit of a luddite - I resisted disc brakes for ages due to worrying about possible failure half way round a remote route. If you have cantis / V brakes you can fix pretty much anything with a minimal tool kit. This was borne out when I fell off at Camasunary (Skye) and had to bend my rear disc back into some sort of shape by standing on it - still left me with half a brake all the way back to Sligichan.

If you like to blast around trail centres, it's a different story - I can see the benefits of getting to the top refreshed and ready to head down, never more than a few miles from a bike shop / power point.

But for me, the simpler the better when it comes to two wheeled adventures.

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I'm 44 fit and healthy and commuting 16 hilly miles a day and for the last 13years. If I had the money I'd buy an ebike - haterz or not because I like riding bikes of all types, and I reckon I'd have the shits and giggles on one not provided by one of my 'normal' bikes.

So in summary ebike hating Luddites can **** off back to golf or whatever dull as dishwater hobby they came from.

i can't think of a running equivalent, but i'm going to try anyway.

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What's the point?

bensales - Member

Having ridden powered and non-powered two-wheelers for longer than I care to remember, I see no difference between ebikes and motorbikes.

I feel like maybe you should come back to the thread once you've riden an ebike and have seen the difference.

http://www.wired.co.uk/article/running-jetpack

as a bloke who rode a ebike for 2 years when ill with a heart problem, i think they are fantastic, but for that kind of stuff and for people who are not able bodied.

cant get my head round why someone well and able to cycle unaided would want to use one.

They may be fun but its not cycling its like giving in when you get a bit old and slow and need a mobility scooter .Some people wont because they have pride buying an ebike is the same.

I can't wait to get one. As the tech gets lighter and I can get it onto a 160mm trail bike without a massive weight penalty, I'll have one for mashing up the local climbs (circa 500-1000ft) and flying back down, just like an uplift day.
Just can't see the issue. its different.
Unless there is a massive difference in fitness, on a group ride (my local bike shop fit lad gives one to his girlfriend to ride when he goes out training, gives him a target!) they aren't going to mix well, but then that's not what they're all about in my mind.
I will however keep the other bikes for just going for a ride...

I'll try one when I'm old and ****ed but not before. I'm not an overly proud person, but I do have [i]some[/i] pride. It's MTBing made easy. Unless you're somehow impaired, it's strictly for the golfing brigade.

how would that go down in the running world? i think we can all imagine can't we?

Arent Nike trying something along these lines with their special shoes for a 2 hour marathon?
Apparently x percent more effective without breaking the rules around technology in shoes.

For e-bikes. If it keeps people riding I cant see a problem. Only real issue would be dealing with the e motorbikes being confused with them and hence normal bikes.

I'm not an bike hater per se, but they concern me as a development simply because they have potential to cause major issues in Access negotiations for sensitive/contested locations.

There's a lot of walkers and horsey peeps that already think mountain bikes are too much like motorbikes, add any sort of engine and they aren't going to stop and listen to anyone explaining pedal assist, they're just going to lose their shit at the idea.

Then you have hackers, danglers, app modders, etc rigging things for twist throttle operation instead of legal assistance or over rating the output beyond the legit - all illegal, but not going away while the option is there.

I see obvious benefits for injured and otherwise in need of assistance riders, but to be perfectly honest these people would be as well served by fully motorised transport (the sort that is currently illegal sold under this designation).

I'm fully expecting to be proven wrong by time as new expensive shiny that makes life easier is usually a winning proposition, but I'm not convinced at all they're a good thing for the UK MTB seen however much fun people can have on them.

I test rode a Cannondale Moterra last weekend. Full sus and 650b plus.

I had no preconceptions before trying and don't mind seeing them on the trails.

First and lasting thoughts .... It was fun, a different sort of fun to normal riding. How can anything with a turbo setting not be fun.

I did a short 8 mile loop with plenty of twisty singletrack but as this is Suffolk a distinct lack of climbing.

I tried all power/aided settings including off, the latter was hard work!

In turbo mode through the trees it was brilliant fun as you would maintain 16mph pretty easily on tight twisty singletrack where half that can seem fast.

Had some fun powering out of bomb holes too as a quick turn of the pedals at the bottom engaged the motor!

Over 16mph it wasn't fun though. I'm not a fast rider but with the "help" you're soon riding everywhere at 16mph almost as a minimum. Pushing passed this the motor cuts out and it becomes a heavy bike flipping between assisting and not as you drop beneath 16mph or above it.

You'd need to take a different approach to riding it over a conventional bike ..., or I would.

If I had the money, meaning it were truly disposable, and the space I would have one just for the fun of it.

They may be fun but its not cycling its like giving in when you get a bit old and slow and need a mobility scooter .Some people wont because they have pride buying an ebike is the same

You know that could come across as mobility scooter drivers have no pride and have given in.

It could also come across as if e-bike riders have no pride and have given in.. people have been talking shit since god created Adolph and Evander, it ain't gonna stop today is it? 😀

I have to agree with Ton back up the page, they serve a purpose for those with a genuine [u]Need[/u] for assistance, but there's plenty of people buying them using the excuse that it will "motivate" them to get out riding or go further than they would otherwise. The harsh truth is it's laziness holding back their cycling ambitions, not health, or the lack of a 3k+ e-dandyhorse... Who ever got fitter by delegating effort?

And then there's the people chipping them, having the 15mph limit or need to turn the cranks removed, I've seen them out and about and they basically are just bellends... They should have just bought one of these: