[Closed] Ebike Haters Talk To Me

Roter Stern - Member

Well that electric motor sitting around the bottom bracket is a bit of a give away How you engage the motor is irrelevant.

Except for being literally the entire difference between an electric motorbike and an electric-assist bike, yes, it's irrelevant.

When you get [url= https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=derestricting+electric+bike ]stuff like this[/url] "they are only pedal assist!" doesn't really wash. They are a tweak away from being an electric motor bike.

Here's my take:

Many people put an awful lot of time and effort and money into MTB'ing, and become good at it - get fit, develop the skillz etc - and become a recognised member of the MTB 'clan'. The better MTB'er you are, the faster you will generally be, and it's that speed bit that is the most obvious differentiator of the better riders.

MTB'ing has always had an element of 'racing you mates' to it, and Strava has opened that up even more. It's what generates the MTB social order (fastest first) but also provides an incentive to get better - I want to get faster, so need to get fitter and get the skillz.

Ebikes represent a threat to this 'social order' as you can now be fast without having to invest the time and effort to become a 'good' rider.

Well, so what? People are having fun, getting out etc etc... The 'so what' is that your pissing on other people's chips by devaluing the currency that separates the good riders from the less able ones - speed.

It's why people get upset losing a Strava rankings to ebikes. To those who don't use Strava / look down their noses at it, they don't really understand or care about the effort that some people put in to improving their riding / fitness which an improved Strava rank represents.

Should you care? That's up to you, but if you don't care, you can't be blind to why some people are unhappy with them (irrespective of the surrounding issues of people using ebikes inappropriately - chipped/deregulated etc)

Klunk - Member

When you get stuff like this "they are only pedal assist!" doesn't really wash.

That isn't a UK-legal pedelec, though- someone's taken it and turned it into something else.

You can take a learner-legal scooter and turn it mental too, that's something that's been around forever and tbh it's just not that big a deal.

chum3 - Member

Well, so what? People are having fun, getting out etc etc... The 'so what' is that your pissing on other people's chips

You're not, though. I mean, people might choose to think so but to be blunt that's their problem. It's apples and oranges and if being fast on a standard mountain bike is important to you, why would it bother you if someone is fast on an e-bike?

As for strava, anyone that takes strava that seriously is out of their minds anyway, it's always been completely undermined by cheats and inaccuracy, so let this new disaster come, it makes but one more.

You're not, though. I mean, people might choose to think so but to be blunt that's their problem. It's apples and oranges and if being fast on a standard mountain bike is important to you, why would it bother you if someone is fast on an e-bike?

Speed is speed, and it's an attribute that is hard earned... Look, I'm not saying everyone is bothered by it, but my post covers my main thoughts. People are people - are emotional beings, and are sometimes irrational, but it doesn't mean that they don't feel the way they do.

Should you care? That's up to you, but if you don't care, you can't be blind to why some people are unhappy with them...

You can take a learner-legal scooter and turn it mental too, that's something that's been around forever and tbh it's just not that big a deal.

you can but it's not done very often. Why ? because the roads are policed and there's a fairly good chance you'll be caught. Who's going to police the trails and check for chiped ebikes, nobody that's who.If illegal ebikes cause a problem we're all going to be lumped into the one group.
I agree that the odd "hot" learner scooter isn't a problem because their on the roads mixing with even faster vehicle's, introducing chipped ebikes onto our trails is something new.

As for strava, anyone that takes strava that seriously is out of their minds anyway, it's always been completely undermined by cheats and inaccuracy, so let this new disaster come, it makes but one more.

Yes and no... If you're in the top 1-2% of a segment that has 2000 rider attempts, you know you're pretty quick, irrespective of the cheats, inaccuracies, wind assists (and E bikes!)

I am not completely against them in principle, lots of good reasons to get people, that are less able, out on a bike.

That said I went past a guy on one on my local circuit recently, and as I passed I wondered how I would feel if he re-passed me? Fully fit person chasing me down because he has a battery! I think I would be annoyed, blowing out of my arse trying to go as quickly as I could.

Is the marketing being aimed at the disabled? I don't frequent disability stores, but I suspect bikes with 140mm travel aren't. Happy to be corrected on that, could simply be my ignorance though.

I personally feel the marketing is aimed at those that aren't fit enough to go as quickly or as far as they would like. Personally that's why I ride a bike, to achieve the fast time or that further distance.

All that said I wouldn't mind a spin on one, just to see how much quicker it would make me.

Seems to me that many leisure cyclists see pedelecs as mobility scooters.

As a 'cyclist for the joy and health of cycling', I rather see cars like that. At least the way they are commonly used, ie for everything.

Currently laid up so do the shopping in the car. Hate it. Normally I do it on the 3spd pedally thing. No electric assist in the stable at present but if I had to make up time, lived further out from shops, or did the school run regularly I would get one and happily take all the 'cheating' flack from the petrolheads, weekend warriors (roadies, mtbers etc), and uplifters 😉

[img] [/img]

chum3 - Member

People are people - are emotional beings, and are sometimes irrational, but it doesn't mean that they don't feel the way they do.

Of course- but you can't expect irrational baseless feelings to take precedence over other people's choice. And e-bikes are out there regardless so anyone who has a problem with it is either going to have to make peace with it, or is going to be unhappy about it, and isn't it better if it's the former? The obvious way to deal with it, is to treat it as what it is- apples and oranges.

I don't think it's helping anyone to pander to it, though, that just encourages people to be unhappy. But some people will always prefer that of course.

chum3 - Member

Yes and no... If you're in the top 1-2% of a segment that has 2000 rider attempts, you know you're pretty quick, irrespective of the cheats, inaccuracies, wind assists (and E bikes!)

Well that's my point- strava isn't suddenly ruined by this

I haven't got one but if I did I would not feel the need to justify my purchase to anyone.

Really don't know who some people think they are, suggesting you have to have some medical condition before they're deemed acceptable, makes me want to buy one out of spite.

Is the marketing being aimed at the disabled?

There are as many types of ebikes as there are types of bike/cycling.

Marketing for cargo bikes is going to be different than marketing for weekend warriors.

I like my unassisted cycling best. Saying that, if i were loaded I'd like to buy a simple hybrid-y pedelec to launch me over the Hills and back for visiting friends and arriving normally-dressed, on time, sweet-smelling and fresh with panniers full of comestibles/goodies. Happy that the car is yet again unused and I got to smell the roses/bluebells too. Do we really seem to have a blind-spot in this country to the possibility of pedelecs freeing us up from the monoculture of each strapping on a deadly tonne of steel, oil and petroleum and plastics in order to carry a few bags or get somewhere local-ish and on time?

speed is speed and is/CAN be hard earned? fastest i ever go is down sixtapod at bpw, it was a long drive so maybe i did earn it.
is it fair to say that any developments that have made it easier to go uphill is cheating, lighter bikes, switch forks, fork lock outs, spds, cassettes with larger cogs. should we all be on heavy as **** bikes so we earn our downhill even more genuinely?
something that motivates anyone to go out on their bike is all that matters,whatever that is.
after all, we are all sitting about on our computers while there are lot of riders out on their bikes/ebikes totally unaware that there are threads like this

Is this not a motorbike either then....because it has pedals?

Looks like a moped. Are the cranks attached to those pedals there to start the motor, and/or to assist it?

From wikipedia because lazy:

The word moped is a portmanteau of "motor" and "pedal", originally coined in Sweden. Like some of the earliest two wheeled motorcycles, all mopeds were once equipped with bicycle pedals. The name "moped" has now been applied by some regional governments to vehicles without pedals, based on criteria of restricted engine displacement, speed, and/or power output. This is a misnomer, as they are no longer "mopeds" at all, and might instead be called a "noped" if they appear to look exactly like a typical moped, but no longer include pedals.[1]

Pedalling away from stationary was a great improvement over "run and jump" and light pedal assistance (LPA) was valuable for climbing hills. Better transmissions with wider ranges, better clutches and much better engine performance made pedals obsolete on most motorcycles by 1918 but the pedals on mopeds remained valuable for their original purposes as late as the 1990s.

If ebikes become the norm, what will the generation that grow up with them be looking for when they get too old to keep up? An MTB simulator in their [s]living[/s] [b]existing[/b] room controlling a hologram avatar out on the trails?

For me, riding bikes is all about getting outdoors, seeing places and having fun with mates. If an e-bike is the way to continue doing this, at a later point in my life, then I have no qualms in doing so.

Of course- but you can't expect irrational baseless feelings to take precedence over other people's choice.

There's no precedent here - people are free to feel and ride what they like. Although they may be [i]irrational baseless feelings[/i] doesn't mean they don't exist. I'm just trying to dispassionately explain why some people may dislike ebikes...

Well that's my point- strava isn't suddenly ruined by this

is it fair to say that any developments that have made it easier to go uphill is cheating, lighter bikes, switch forks, fork lock outs, spds, cassettes with larger cogs. should we all be on heavy as **** bikes so we earn our downhill even more genuinely?

Ebikes represent a threat

I've no strong feeling about ebikes. I'd be disappointed if they become the norm, as it would mean my version of MTB'ing would be in the minority.

Are you a hill walker if you get the funicular up snowden and then walk the last 100m to the top then walk down, are you a mountaineer if you get the cable car up Mt Blanc rather than climb up, no you are a tourist. Nothing wrong with been a tourist, but don't call yourself a hill walker or mountaineer.

In the same light don't call yourself a mountain biker if you are able bodied and have an ebike, and don't try and kid yourself with all the market blurb, that if you have one you can ride further and faster. If you have one and you are capable of riding a bike, its because you can't be bothered to make the effort to get to the top. or in plan english your a lazy knacker.

I have always thought that been a mountain biker in all its forms, (with the exception of Downhill, slope style etc , which are so physically demanding coming down) was in essence about get out into the forests, hills and mountains and push yourself to get to the top to come back down, some people love the climbs, some people love descending, some both, but they have got there themselves under there own effort not the motor strapped below their legs.

can i call myself a mountain biker if i have an e bike AND other bikes and ride the other bikes more often?

" but they have got there themselves under there own effort not the motor strapped below their legs."
and not the motor under the bonnet that took them there?

What about if I don't go anywhere near a mountain? Or get an uplift on a DH day? There's more to the sport than just riding up a big hill and back down again. I like doing that but I've got no problem with someone who just wants to do something slightly different.

Plenty of mountaineers get the Telepherique to the Aiguille de Midi, step over the wall and go climbing. Plenty of people get the train up Snowdon and walk down.

Room for everyone to make themselves feel good on a bike.

@ malvern rider, not sure if that Leonardo was sarcastic or not

Nope, sincerely meant. I actually had a shot of Talisker at my desk 🙂

There's frustrating lot of binary thought* on the whole debate and your input was refreshing.

*If everyone approved of ebikes/immigrants/caravans/homosexuality then before long we'd all lose our identity as mtbers, white people, campers(!) and before you know it World Is Ended!

I'm far more concerned about all-consuming car-culture which impacts/dictates nearly every aspect of our lives. At present electric-assist/HPV as [b]another option[/b] is still finding it's feet and seems set to stay that way. At a competitive level and access rights I understand the confusion/concern, at every other level not so much, especially with legally restricted machines.

In the USA it is solely about access. EMTB's are motorized and are prohibited on nearly all non-motorized trails, especially on trails of public lands. Once everyone in America can understand that then we can move forward. I would give anything if our mountain bike trail access was like Europe but it's not. We have very powerful anti-mountain bike hiking and environmental groups that continue to fight our access on what they consider "their" trails. Once we blur the line between motorized and non-motorized we will lose access and it will be massive. I hope at some point these groups will soften but I won't see it in my lifetime. Personally, I could care less what you ride. For American riders, don't let your own and industry selfishness put pressure on trail access for all mountain bikers across the country.

Anyone who thinks riding a mtb is anything more than tooling around the woods at the weekend is taking things far too seriously.

I'm with Ton on this - fine if you are old, infirm or similar. There's a guy we occasionally ride with: well into his 60s and has a heart condition so now has an ebike to help him up the hills, he's as much a mountain biker as he was before. Brian Robinson (first Briton to finish the Tour de France) has one, but then he did have a serious accident at the age of 84.

I've no desire currently to get one but another 20 or 30 years and I'll probably change my mind.

As for 40 being old - ha, ha, ha!

Nope, sincerely meant. I actually had a shot of Talisker at my desk

There's frustrating lot of binary thought on the whole debate and your input was refreshing.

thanks, it was funny either way, cant wait for the long weekend to ride my bike 🙂

Wow, so much butthurt.

I'm gonna hazard a guess its not coming from people who train and diet hard, came to the sport later in life, volunteer on trail maintenance days, ride in mixed ability groups, are watching their young proteges pull away from them etc.

If you're so anti buying an advantage, I assume you're all still riding your paper round Muddy Fox?

BigWill:
In the same light don't call yourself a mountain biker if you are able bodied and have an ebike ... If you have one and you are capable of riding a bike, its because you can't be bothered to make the effort to get to the top. or in plan english your a lazy knacker.

Only an argument for folk who ride set trails & cant stretch a ride.

I have my old road bike, and a race beast that I will never ride to its limits. 90 minutes and 1000 calories = 25 miles on the old one, 29 miles + more fun on the new one. Or more hills, whatever I fancy.

If you're able, WTF

If you need the help, good on you, too right

E-bikes becoming the norm - f@$£ right off

As for being more "fun", why stop at e-bike? Motorbike if you want to do it proper.

Couldn't give a monkey's about them - apart from when one held me up when I was having one of those days on my favourite trails where everything felt hooked up - that was a bit annoying.

I get more annoyed by strava lines appearing on trails.

As for being more "fun", why stop at e-bike? Motorbike if you want to do it proper.

+1. I can see that other people might want them, I'm not going to be a dick about it, but it's a very slow moped. The same as that £10k 2000w thing that did the rounds a bit ago was a pretty expensive and very slow motorbike.

And the difference between an uplift and an ebike is pretty obvious - that's like saying putting your bike in the car to head to the trail is the same as having an ebike. When you're pedalling a bike, it's you and an unpowered few bits of metal against the trail (the purist in me thinks battery powered lights are cheating a bit, but dynamo headtorches are somewhat impractical).

I don't care about them existing and sharing the same trails though, the law seems about right on this - any extra erosion will be minimal. I do suspect a lot will be bought and left to gather dust however...

My gripe about e-bikes was simply about taking powered vehicles into the countryside. As somebody who walks, mountain-bikes (and doesn't ride a horse but sympathises with those that do) the idea of having electric vehicles whizzing about got the alarm bells ringing.

What has changed my mind is that an ebike could turn my commute into a practical everyday affair (on or off road) instead of an occasional thing when I'm feeling fit, the sun is shining, and I get up early enough.

I think ebikes are a great idea, my dad (who's 76) has one and it allows him to get out and about. This is on a road, no one minds or even notices he is on one.

I think e-mountain bikes are a terrible idea on trails/paths with mixed usage. For example, the lake District. I saw a lad the other week pinning it (far faster than a normal bike) up a path near Keswick turning around and pinning it back to the bottom again. He did it many more times than he would have done on a normal bike. At a much higher speed going up the hill. Other users of the path, myself included, weren't particularly happy. I'm sure he was loving it and that it was really fun, but that kinda misses the point that it probably upset a dozen or so other people.

I don't really care what other people do / buy / ride, unless it affects me, which in this case it did. It also affects me in that it prejudices people against mountain bikers, which isn't going to end well for us all when e-mtbs become more widespread.

all haters get over it

legal e bikes are legal on all trails that mtbs are so love em or hate em they are here to stay

Laws can change.

I bought my mother an e-bike about 10 years ago, after she had chemo but was still desperate to get out on a bike. She loves it, uses it almost daily and it's changed her life for the better. But if you're not ill, obese or elderly and you're on an e-bike, you should be ashamed.

Some muppet called E-Bikeshop has been around my local trails getting KOMs on every climb (not on the descents mind). It's pathetic.

This thread is very sad.
Full of self important mouthy bellends calling people fat and lazy 🙄

Not surprising really considering the title. But still quite depressing 🙁

Some muppet called E-bikeshop

Are they from Yorkshire?

@corroded...... should be ashamed? .......its pathetic? who the **** are you to tell someone you dont know that they should be ashamed?

I might get a chipped ebike & get all the koms(?) I can (this is a strava thing yes?) to annoy all the haters. That would give me immense joy.

The better MTB'er you are, the faster you will generally be, and it's that speed bit that is the most obvious differentiator of the better riders.

Well, as you get older, this is something you have to get over. There's far more to being a "good mtb'er" than pure speed - always has been, tbh, unless you're racing. Crap like Strava has a lot to answer for, where people think that speed, and speed alone, is all that matters.
People who enjoy things like hill walking don't focus solely on speed - they just enjoy doing what they do, at the pace they are capable of doing it at. I get more satisfaction out of riding a technical section well than thinking I was faster up a climb than some other Tom, Dick or Harry. And I'm a lot better technical rider now, at 65, than I ever was. Sometimes experience does count.

I might get a chipped ebike & get all the koms(?) I can (this is a strava thing yes?) to annoy all the haters. That would give me immense joy.

Troll mode activate!!! I like it 😆 Folk take Strava wayyyyyyyy too seriously.

I recently bought a trek powerfly 9lt and I love it, I haven't enjoyed riding so much in years and I've been riding since around 1992 seriously.

I've done the mega and been to the alps a squillion times,I live in South Wales so have ridden many many awesome trails but I've always been a bit slow uphill turns out to be a due to a genetic condition causing my liver to create sh1t loads of cholesterol.
I only found out after I had a heart attack whilst mountain biking at bpw aged 42 on the first sodding run, never smoked 6'3 15stone.

I had 3x stents fitted and I'm on medication for the rest of my life including betablockers to stop my heart over revving which is difficult winching yourself up a valleys or off piste FOD climb.

It's not as accurate as my 2017 Five downhill or as easy to maneuver but it enables you to cover a lot of ground in a short space of time if you wish,basically don't knock it until you try it or indeed need it.
Peace DB

I don't think anyone would begrudge you your bike dirtyboy (and if they do, ignore them) and I personally have nothing against anyone getting one. But we do need to think about where this puts mountain biking in relationship to other users of off road trails, especially in the eyes of those who get a say in what is open to who to use, and how trails are surfaced (or not)… I'll do some selective quoting from the words of others in this thread…

It also affects me in that it prejudices people against mountain bikers, which isn't going to end well for us all when e-mtbs become more widespread.

People who enjoy things like hill walking don't focus solely on speed - they just enjoy doing what they do, at the pace they are capable of doing it at.

We have very powerful anti-mountain bike hiking and environmental groups that continue to fight our access on what they consider "their" trails. Once we blur the line between motorized and non-motorized we will lose access and it will be massive.

Note: I'm one of those weirdos that's wanted an ebike in every home, or something like it, since I first saw a C5. If/when they become super popular off road (and it is happening now) we need to be ready for the backlash on mountain bikers.

laws can change

They certainly can, when the laws regarding ebikes were drafted I'm sure they had this in mind.

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Not this.

[URL= http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx187/taxi25/New-Orange-Strange-EMTB-0602_zpsohkaek1o.jp g" target="_blank">http://i754.photobucket.com/albums/xx187/taxi25/New-Orange-Strange-EMTB-0602_zpsohkaek1o.jp g"/> [/IMG][/URL]

Henri Desgrange, 1902 - "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over 45. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailleur? We are getting soft. Come on fellows. Let's say that the test was a fine demonstration - for our grandparents! As for me, give me a fixed gear!"

The difference in capability between a rigid fixie and an 170mmEnduroSled (TM) with 12 speed SRAM eagle is much more than that between a trail bike and an electric trail bike so to me saying electronic assistance is cheating but disregarding mechanical assistance such as gears and suspension seems a bit odd.

The difference is that bikes with anything like gears , disc brakes , suspension etc is that they are still totally dependent on the rider for all of their propulsion . E-bikes change all that .

Yet all the haters drive cars with power-steering..thats not purist is it. Or use a cordless drill instead of a screwdriver. Stick to what you want to do and keep quiet. No-ones interested in your sad prejudices.
Why buy an M5 when a skoda will get you there...time to grow up boys.. all these people buying cars that go faster thsn the spped limit..they're gonna ruin it for all of us.

The only mildly annoying thing about the guy who rides with us is that when we get to 30+ miles on a ride I'm going much slower than at the start and he's just as fresh as he was at the beginning . He then says "i can go further but i know you might struggle"

Oh and my other beef is i can't afford one

Working in a bike shop that sells ebikes, 50% of the inquires we get are split between those who are disappointed that they will still have to pedal & those who have already researched how to get them chipped

some of the arguments against those that do not like ebikes are quite laughable. to try and link ebikes to power steering on cars? or using a cordless drill? to say that those that don't approve of ebikes probably don't help with trail building, or ride in mixed ability groups? come on.

The vast majority of people that dislike ebikes, don't dislike the bikes, they are a very smart compact bit of tech. They don't dislike there use in many circumstances, they are totally valid if age, illness, disability or injury prevent you from getting out and enjoying the sport. I also totally get, since reading on here, the argument for them as a commuter bike, to get people out their cars and on bikes without getting all sweated up and smelly for work. Most "haters" are probably not that bothered about trail damage with ebikes or strava times, the later I don't care about. Its the smug slightly overweight git that is clearly able of cycling that comes past you in all his matching branded pajamas when you are blowing out your arse trying to get to the top, that thinks he is a bit special because he doesn't need to make the same level of effort. sorry mate you are just lazy.

You have fallen for the marketing BS. It is not the same as v brakes vs disc or improvements in suspension or carbon bikes, or sram eagles groupsets, all those improvements never touch one fundamental and that is you, the engine, it is your energy that is expended, not energy that was initially derived from a power station or wind turbine. you are the single thing driving that bike forward.

until eMtb bikes came along if you wanted to get into the sport you had to make an effort to improve fitness to get you to the top of the hill, or you had to try and maintain fitness to achieve the same goal. fitness is an important part of it, it is after all a sport, and don't sport and fitness, or at least making an effort to get fit go hand in hand? As you get older you have to make more of an effort to maintain fitness, but also accept your fitness will naturally dwindle with age, and yes there will be a point where you have tried everything but you just can't get up those hills anymore and so an ebike becomes a viable option.

I'm just not there yet, I haven't given up on myself, maybe I might in another 20 years.

I love the way people can tell exactly what another person is thinking as they cycle past. It's a great skill. No wonder you don't need an e-bike. Ever considered that it might just be your mean little prejudices showing rather than anything else.

Unless your energy isn't enough, in which case you can add a bigger cassette or smaller chainring and artificially increase your ability to get up hills. Yes, you're still providing the power but you're receiving a massive amount of mechanical assistance.

@ivanDobski exactly, but by dropping a chainring size or putting on a bigger cassette you will go up the hill slower with the same amount of energy, its still you. that's why cassettes and chainrings are allowed in cycling events but motors are not.

@imnotverygood seen it and heard it, ive had someone say "you wonna to get one of these, it's easy" looking down to his ebike as Ive been blowing up a hill. my response "you wonna be able to see your dick when you piss". I'm no athlete, far from it, but when I go out on my bike it all my effort, and I go where I go, and know my limitations, if I didn't i'd get a motorbike. Oh sorry an ebike.

Perhaps we should have a sticky for the ebike hate thing.

Ride what you want, it's no big deal. Limited to 15 mph, just like a very fit rider uphill, who cares if someone have battery assist to propel them up?

Does this really bother you? What if a really fit rider passes you, do you get worked up about that? Who cares.

You don't have to justify what you ride, and if (as it is termed) some fat *** passes you on an ebike, is that really a concern?

At least he/she is out having some exercise, it's none of anyone's business why they choose to ride an ebike really.

Ride what you want, and have a smile and wave to people, we aren't racing or winning any gold medals here.
Come to think of it, the sport.......is actually riddled with cheaters.......and has been for decades.

How would human power only crowd feel about an ebike that was charged using a dynamo on a turbo trainer?

[i]they are totally valid if age, illness, disability or injury[/i]

I think I can claim three of the four. I'll add meds as well, for I believe the Ramipril slows me down.

I see them in the same light as granny buggies, there's a granny in town who goes hooning through the shoppers at 8mph on a near-silent machine, then mixes it with the traffic on a main road. It's not going to end well. Mostly though they let people get about which has to be good. And someday something fatal will attract the interests of the Red Tops and the law will be enforced.

So it's nothing to do with gears and Bosch, more like a youth honing around town on a chipped granny buggy. I'll continue to regard some in that light.

Can people please stop recommending electric-assist MTB owners get motorbikes instead? I can't think of anything worse than the sound and stink of a motorbike when I'm out off-road. It's one of the main reasons I ride offroad - to get away from fumes/road traffic, also to stop for a breather and hear wild birdsong, see a deer, a badger, watch a goshawk flitting through the branches, etc.

Come to think of it, the sport.......is actually riddled with cheaters.......and has been for decades.

OMG taking PEDs riding an e-bike!!!!!!!!

[img] [/img]

Using some of the logic in this thread, I suggest if you don't ride in the mountains you're not a mountain biker.

How would human power only crowd feel about an ebike that was charged using a dynamo on a turbo trainer?

I wager they already use turbo-trainers to charge their Audis/Beemers/Mercs/T5s/Porsches in order to cart their bike to the uplifts/trail-centres. Perhaps.

unless they drive this:

^ 🙂 I'm hard- pushed to decide who is the most self-satisfied - the anti-ebike cyclists carrying their 3k pedal-bikes in 'posh' cars or the 'smug and fat' ebiker? 😉

It could well be me and the badgers. But tbh I feel more grumpy about the whole subject. I could definitely see an ebike in my stable as it would keep me out of the car in certain situations. May even have allowed me to keep pedalling this last year with a hernia. But I definitely don't begrudge car-dependents the use of either pedelecs or regular bikes. That's the thing with stereotypes/prejudice, there comes a point when everyone is viewed as a dislikeable twunt.

[img] [/img]

Love it when any rational counter argument fails so they have to resort to the personal, T5, Audi, crap. Think in the uk mountain biking covers most woodland, hill and mountains or are you ebike lovers the canal towpath and former railway line type of e-mtbers. Sorry I'll add it to the list .

I'm in it for the fun, I'm not in it to flog myself up hills I just don't enjoy that anymore nor did I enjoy the knee pain. I've had an e-mtb for a few months now and I'll be honest it's got me riding more, it's bloody great, I still have to pedal, my legs ache in the morning after a good ride the night before but that's the muscles not the knees (yay). I meter out the power sensibly I don't just ride around on turbo nor have I 'chipped' it. As for strava, it's mixed results, I've beaten some of my old times but not all of them it seems I was quite fit in 2013!

Being 70 I find the 'I'll probably get one when I'm old' comments quite amusing. At present I have no intention of buying an ebike even though I often have to walk steep sections. Nowadays I tend to keep rides to about 20 miles in the Yorkshire Dales. This could be the one area where an ebike might be considered to extend the ride. Also all of my riding friends still work so most of my riding is midweek & solo. Life long hill walker so hike-a-bike isn't an issue for me.
Last summer on Buckden Pike in very dry conditions
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Love it when any rational counter argument fails so they have to resort to the personal, T5, Audi, crap.

Read again, it was tongue-in-cheek and purposed ridiculous stereotyping, just to highlight the self-righteousness/stereotyping being directed at those with pedelecs from those who *may* be high-profile gas-guzzlers with their 'pure' non-assist bikes onboard. Humour-fail on my part I guess

or are you ebike lovers the canal towpath and former railway line type of e-mtbers. Sorry I'll add it to the list .

See what I mean?

If I had an ebike/pedelec in the stable it would be to replace a car where I can make extended trips, and I'd like to be able to take the scenic route, and lug a load of crap/work-stuff, and have time to get back before dark. But I don't begrudge fatboy pedalling an eMTB at the weekend in his 'pajamas', neither do I resent car-fetish guy who drives his unber-bike everwhere. Maybe if some of us engage him in conversation he may (dimly at first) see 'the light' and one decide to get fit and trade it in for a proper bicycle? Maybe he won't. Why should anyone care?

I don't just ride around on turbo nor have I 'chipped' it.

cos that would be cheating 😀

Maybe when I get to the top of a hill Im slightly 'smug' on the inside because I've never climbed it in one before not because I've overtaken Mr. Blowingouthisarse tryingashardashecanpurist. I will be very careful not to look smug next time, I also won't try and make light hearted conversation with you, or even better, I wont overtake; I'll stick behind and follow you up because that will make you feel better.

*edit - 'car-fetish guy who drives his uber-bike everywhere'. Like a status-signalling petrol-powered delivery service for expensive play-bikes. And he's already looking down on pedelec-riders even before he gets to the top of the uplift.

See, stereotypes?

I often have to walk steep sections. Nowadays I tend to keep rides to about 20 miles

You need an ebike mate

A pain free back & knees would be a better buy 😆

A pain free back & knees would be a better buy

ebikes will never bocome mainstream for MTBing for the reasons someone outlined earlier. Above 15 mph you are riding a sluggish heavy bike that is not as nice to ride as a proper MTB

Also battery range is not enough either for decent long rides with a lot of offroad climbing

In the beginning folk modded singlespeeds, as the track riders had, and rode out in to the rough. Possibly some old boys frowned on them for using freewheels. In the UK they rode anything, in the US the attention focused on downhills. Then came Sturmey Archer hubs and derailleurs, and we lost the purity of singlespeeding.

Then came offroad geometry, then frames that didn't weigh a ton. then the democracy of dads old tyres was ruined by terrain-specific treads. Then came suspension stems, and for the rich few an elastomer suspension fork. Now you really couldn't keep up with the rich kids on the bike you got to ride to high school.

But it didn't end there. Alu frames. V brakes. Rear suspension. Non-suicidal post-1992 geometry. Brake boosters. SIS gears. Gears that work. Lighter versions of gears that work. Carbon. Disk brakes.

etc. etc. etc. etc.

dropper posts, for the guy who loves max attack on the downs but gets tired when the seat's not in optimum pedal position.

Energy gels so we don't need to understand fueling. Recovery shakes so we don't need to understand that either.

Trail centres, so we don't need to read maps or ride between the fun features. Uplifts, so we can eliminate the less rewarding bits.

But god forbid a rider enjoys the trail a couple of miles faster or longer than they're entitled to ....

(don't let the thread die, its fun!)

I've ridden an ebike and it was great fun. Riding bikes for me is all about fun, and if there's a shortcut to fun, i'll take it. However the 15mph limit and descending performance was a bit disappointing. Great fun on techy climbs though, transforms them.

My issue with ebikes is that as they aren't really compatible with mtbs in a group ride, so they could quite easily become the norm. This would be fine in my eyes, except for one thing. The cost.

It seems like mountain biking has disappeared up its own arse a bit with £5k bikes being so common, but at least at the moment its very easy to build up a good bike cheaply. This means that its not hard for young kids to get into the sport, either with an old bike from the shed or a second hand one.

With even the most basic e-mountainbike costing £1500, and a "proper" one costing £3k+ I can't see how many young people would be able to get into the sport if it becomes the norm. Sure, there will be second hand ebikes, but how long do the motors/battery last before they need a £££ service or new battery? (Maybe its 10 years but I doubt it given how long most MTB equipment lasts, they can't even make a dropper that works longer than 18months)

Why does this matter so much? Well I can't help but feel that the sport is pushed by the youth, not the middle aged IT managers. Trails are built by kids on school holidays, not by Dave from Accounts on his 25 days annual leave.

My hopefully ungrounded fear is that if ebikes become the norm the sport of mountain biking will just be Audi's and trail centres. Sure it doesn't stop any individual from doing what they want, but a sport is stronger when everyone's goals are at least fairly aligned.

I love how people call it 'cheating' in reference to having a Ebike chipped/dongled or just using the full amount of assist that's standard in every country but ours! Also, it's not a race, so how's it cheating???? Maybe a lot of the noise Is coming from the same crowd that deem strava arse holes for racing to beat times on trials .??? Get over it, I personally don't have an issue, I have one of each bike (Ebike and normal) and all the comments like the ones I'm reading on this (amusing) thread make me want me say I could probably beat most around my local trails on either normal or assist. Ebikes cause no more erosion on trails and as for the idiots flying up footpaths, well you get them in all walks of life..

My hopefully ungrounded fear is that if ebikes become the norm the sport of mountain biking will just be Audi's and trail centres

Competitive sport is governed by regs.

Everything else (mtbing for leisure, not transport) is (and always has been) this or that niche/fashion trend and ultimately dictated by personal income levels. Cycling itself (in the UK at least) is still a minority activity and even then it's still driven heavily by car-usage to get to trails. I'm sure lifting a hefty ebike onto a car is a disincentive?

I love how people call it 'cheating' in reference to having a Ebike chipped/dongled or just using the full amount of assist that's standard in every country but ours! Also, it's not a race, so how's it cheating????

My issue with ebikes is that as they aren't really compatible with mtbs in a group ride

I'm of the view that as I get older an e-Bike is what will let me keep cycling in a family ride. I'm currently shy of 50 and "little me" is 7 and racing under 12's... and finishing top 10 so it doesn't take a genius to work out if he's winning XC races at 18 and I'm over 60 that "get fitter mate" is going to be realistic.

Quite honestly I can't see why people are upset if someone sets a better Strava time than then... what's it actually matter? Cripes I could easily get better times on most of my regular runs just switching to my other bike... I mean why bother if someone goes faster up a climb when they might have simply pedalled at 25% to get there then blasted the climb or they could be riding a full carbon hardtail and you are riding an enduro bike... etc.

Does it matter if their time is on an eBike and yours is on an Enduro vs their time is on an $5000 XC bike and yours is on an Enduro???

What does bother me a bit is that the whole motor thing will inevitably lead to increasing regulation. Most of us probably get away with riding illegally after dark for example ... (seriously who has pedal reflectors) and e-bikes seem like a open invitation to apply legislation more stringently.

bennyb - 250W cutting out at 15 mph is the euro standard

Glad we're leaving the euro then!