Id have killed for one Tuesday when my quads gave in at the top of Simons Swamp at Gisburn on Tuesday, and by the stream crossing at the bottom of Hully Gully my knee went. what a dick i felt pushing up Bottoms and the last blue run...
My main problem with them is the use by older people. Here in Germany they have become the thing to have for all senior citizens. Now before these people would be bimbling along at 7 kmh where as now on their ebikes they are bimbling along at 30 kmh resulting in some nasty injuries when things go wrong.
That KTM is awesome, but id imagine a few problems learning that the rear brake isnt a clutch!
Approves!
I've got a levo..... And I've got a bucksaw.... And I've got a codeine 29er...and I've got a nukeproof mega am. I love them all, I'm 65, not given up just yet. I'm hoping to do the tour de Mont Blanc next year, again !! On the mega am 650b. I ride all the bikes and have fun on them all, it's just different fun, I'm a bit embarrassed before I get on the levo, buts it's a great laugh, and I soon forget. I enjoy all my bikes, isn't that what it's all about ?? I don't give a t**s what anyone else thinks, I'm just enjoying myself.
@ Andy 10011 p**ss off, I'm sure you ride every where and never put your bike on a rack, or in your car or van, because that would mean you might be considered fat and lazy.
Well said Lester, bravo for still hammering stuff at what some folk consider 'old.
Folks like you are what keeps us going mate.
*likes*
Well I was 40 this year and I don't want one. If anyone else wants one, fine, if they don't, also fine. I ride to keep fit and have fun. An e-bike could let me go further for the same effort, but I'm ok doing what I'm doing currently. A 29er xc hardtail would probably get me further for the same effort, but I'm ok doing what I'm doing currently.
Most of the issues with E-bikes can be resolved by simply not giving a damn about what other people choose to do.
not read the above posts, usual shizzle I expect. My Mums fella has been a long time roadie, out twice a week for years with the local club, many years on CTC meets, proper dedicated roadie all his life. Now has parkinsons disease which would have ended his biking years ago, but an ebike means he's still out with his mates. It's been an absolute life saver for him mentally and physically IMO. When it stops I really think he will stop, totally. I genuinely believe it's given him a few more years of sort of normality.
Are we talking ebikes or pedelecs? Are they the same thing now? Have often thought that a pedelec would allow me to pedal and not have to drive to visit my good friend 15 miles away, while not losing half a day or more cycling and still be left with some breath and time to chill and catch up. That would be worth a lot in itself. Yes I've cycled the route on a regular bike. And yes it's pretty cruel in the summer for those even half my age who've accompanied me in the past. 10 deep river valleys there, 10 back. Nearly 9000 ft of climbing. Beautiful place to cycle (North Devon coast) - but brutal if you like to do it regularly commuting and/or visiting friends. I see very few local cyclists in that part of the world, and probably for good reason.
Pedelecs are great for transport and cargo. Many mtbers seem to have a blind spot to those possibilities, which is weird because surely you would think that those are the first that would cone to mind? Cars are used way too much for short/medium trips. If you already like cycling then why not increase your cycling/decrease car use to do shopping, cargo/school runs and visits?
I can see land owners using e-bikes as an excuse to close off road access to bikes of all kinds, that's my objection to mountain e-bikes. Bikes with motors are motorbikes. Basically what vincienup said.
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cookeaa - MemberThe harsh truth is it's laziness holding back their cycling ambitions, not health, or the lack of a 3k+ e-dandyhorse...
And yet, if they get an e-bike and are subsequently happy, obviously there's a flaw in your logic.
Not everyone gives a crap about getting fitter. I cycle [i]despite[/i] the fitness benefits, the only reason I want to be fitter is to ride further and faster so If I could magic a motor and battery onto my bike without a weight and money penalty, or order some bigger legs off amazon, damn right I would.
It's just empathy basically- the reason other people are making different decisions to you is that they don't want the same things as you.
I had my Levo Comp for 10 days before being knocked off it. Now suffering a long healing process before I'll be riding it again.
I've ri?den it on a group ride around Swinley and loved it. As a group nobody had to wait for me and I feel as a group it didnt make me feel like I was spoiling someone elses fun by them having to wait for me. There wasn't a them and me. We were a group. Fun yes. Smiles yes. Regrets none.
yes I am over weight and lacked the motivation to ride my normal bike on my own and at 62
went on a group holiday last year and was tailend charlie every day as could not ride at the pace of the much younger members .
we still had fun and every one said they did not mind the long waits at the top of the hills
but I did mind as felt bad dampening their fun and adding possibly 2 or more hours to their rides .
so my Ebike means I can ride with my mate at his pace so we both get a fun day out .
and I get to sometimes open the gates for him and share the banter as can speak while climbing at his pace .
I fully intend to ride bikes until i am unable to through health or death .
so all you haters just think what you will do when you reach 60 / 70/ and above
I still ride non ebikes to keep fitish but not when out with much younger mates
Good stuff Trouty, will we get to see this ebike @ ardrock this year?
hopefully Nobeerinthefridge
but only sunday as have to go to a wedding on sat
hoping to be start of section 3 again
Ridiculous.
People do what they want. Why would anybody be concerned about what other people ride?
I have zero interest in bikes with above 160mm travel but I'm not going to hate them just because they're not my thing.
Let's at least embrace the fact there is choice for riders to go off in different directions. As long as I can keep my mile munching on my Turner's I don't give a hoot. Besides it's something else to chase down.
As long as other groups don't use ebikes as an excuse to hamper efforts for greater access I'm not bothered at all.
I don't quite see riding an ebike as the same thing as riding my current bikes, but as with all things this view will probably change as I get older, and probably more in need of the assistance offered by one.
Basically the only reason people outside racing object to ebikes is that they have an inexplicable urge to poke their nose into other people's business.
I don't understand why anyone would want to drive a Hyundai i10. They are a car, like all other cars, but I don't like them. But it is absolutely none of my business if other people choose to drive them.
Similarly it's nobody else's business if someone chooses to ride an ebike.
Where the vitriol these people have comes from I don't know but it's likely to have something to do with not thinking it through properly.
I'm all for them..... there was a time when I thought I was a candidate, thankfully for me the shadows on my lungs were remains of an old pneumonia and nothing more sinister.
A guy in my club rides one and gets the piss ripped but he's a good bloke and accepts it and plays up to it, doesn't use it to storm ahead, etc., it also enables him to keep up where he was struggling before. I also know another guy in another club is a dick with it and is rather hated for it - so it's not the bike, it's the rider in my opinion.
I can see the issues with reliability, as said you don't want to get stranded with a 40lb bike in the wilds somewhere when the battery dies and you haven't made an escape plan. Equally, and as tech improves if it helps people get out and enjoy the farthest reaches of our magnificent countryside that they couldn't have reached before, why not?
I see the running analogy, but people have always adopted new tech, and running shoes now are probably already 10-20% more efficient than they were when people used to run naked apart from leather sandals. I see it more like golf - a 'pro' might get the best feel and control from his set of bladed irons that suit his ability. An amateur can instead have a set with massive cavity backs and oversized heads and perimeter weighting and whatever to compensate for his inability. But they can still play together - and to stretch the analogy further golf also has a handicapping system just so people of different abilities can compete, and that is perfectly normal.
The high handicapper doesn't think he's better than the pro because on a good day he can shoot a nett 6 under par. Just as (most) ebikers don't think they're better than their colleagues because they can get up the hill a bit faster. If they do, they're dicks and would be on any bike.
My sister (dodgy hips) and her husband (terminally ill, cancer) have them - commuting and short camping trips. Appropriate use of a handy technology.
I don't hate them. As a fit 49 old year, though, I'd be f@3kin embarrassed to be seen on one, and would derive no satisfaction from riding further/clearing a climb on one.
To pre-empt some points raised earlier - no, I don't drive a car, and no I don't use uplifts -to the extent I asked for (and was granted) permission to cycle up to the Antur Stiniog trailhead rather than sitting in a van.
they are the mobility scooter of the bike industry. totally valid if you have a genuine ailment such as disability or old age that prevents you from enjoying riding in the way you want to. Otherwise you are no better than the big lazy knackers that ride round on there mobility scooters between shops because they can't be bothered to walk, then walk round said shops like nothing is wrong with them. Don't kid yourself with all the pro ebike marketing hype.
This thread is so judgemental in places. I wish I could afford an e-bike, as due to an ongoing knee injury I can't ride any distance on my bikes.
I rode a Scott hybrid e-bike when I was fit and it was an absolute hoot (who would have thought riding bikes was fun!!). You would think these things are coming to burn your homes down the way some folk respond!!
Lighten up!
MTBing has always had those who just don't like the climbs - they are in it for the DH. I like both, so e-bikes aren't for me while I've still got the legs to get up them.
There are dicks on both ebikes and unpowered bikes. I'd rather people didn't clog up the top tens on climbs on Strava with ebike rides, not because I'm likely to trouble the leaderboard, or even care that much, but because I'm interested to compare my performance with the fastest times and see what is actually possible without e-assistance by some of the fit bastards who live around my way.
so all you haters just think what you will do when you reach 60 / 70/ and above
Just do what I do and put up with not being as fast as I used to be?
@bigwill
I'm old and still enjoy riding the way I want, although I'm recovering from rotator cuff surgery, after landing a gap jump wrong, and finishing it off at bpw. I've had two concussions in the last twelve months from riding the stuff I want to ride. I'm not good but I'm still keen. I usually two evening rides with my mates, whatever the weather and all through winter, on my 29er. i use my mega for bike parks, alps trips and Wales and peaks. I muck about on the fat bike but the longer rides on my own, and maybe even to work a 60 mile round trip I plan to use the e bike. I'm not lazy, I just enjoy the different bikes for different riding.
@ malvern rider, not sure if that Leonardo was sarcastic or not, but it was very funny 🙂
I currently have a Specialized enduro and a Specialized levo, love riding them both. The levo is fast as you like, and turns my normal average trail centre (pines) into something more fun. I still ride my 'normal' bike often , most weekends in the peaks as it happens, mainly for 2 reasons. 1. It keeps me fit. 2. It's faster on the downhills than the levo. End of the day, I was dead set against Ebikes, but after having reluctantly having a go, I'm hooked. Let's be honest, who doesn't like going fast?!?! And it's kinda a myth that a fat lazy dude will instantly become a slayer of mear mortals on a Ebike, it's all down to how much effort you put it (you still gotta be fit!). Last word, all the haters I say this......have a go ! (On a de-restricted one!)
Don't have anything against them per se (other than a nagging feeling that they're not 'proper' cycling - but that's down to me not them).
While I can still ride a 'traditional' bike and have fun on the ups and downs then I don't want one and won't try one. At the point my age or health means I can't get around the trails on my Rocket then I do see an e-bike in my future.
The way the industry seems to be pushing them as the next natural evolution of off? road cycling bothers me a bit.
The potential access issues growing out of chipped e-bikes would be my other concern, but I guess we wait for the first test case to see how that's going to pan out...
@lester as you say your are recovering from injury, recovery can be a slow and spikey process, and as you get older recovery time can get longer, so nothing against someone using an ebike in those circumstances. I've stopped and had a good chat with a couple of people that had a genuine need to use an ebike due to disability or illness, and seen how beneficial they can be. I've also had a go on one and understand that in certain modes you don't need to put a lot of effort in to make the thing move.Its the overweight bloke that gets one because he can't be bothered to make the effort to climb hills and hence lose weight, but still thinks hes a trail warrior on the downs, that falls into the fat knacker mobility scooter category. sorry just my opinion.
I have a Levo, a Spark, and a CX bike. I ride all of them for different reasons, but mainly I ride all of my bikes because I like riding bikes.
The Levo is an electric assisted bike so if I stop pedalling the bike stops. So how is this a motorbike?? And surely it would only be cheating if I were competing! I log all my Levo rides as an [b]e-bike[/b] ride on Strava so do not show up in the normal segments.
As others have said why is anyone bothered what anyone else is riding, as long as we are all riding.
Fishcake.
The Levo is an electric assisted bike so if I stop pedalling the bike stops. So how is this a motorbike??
Well that electric motor sitting around the bottom bracket is a bit of a give away 😉 How you engage the motor is irrelevant.
@bigwill, it wasnt what you said, it was the way you expressed it lol.
of course we are all entitled to our opinions, but who is anyone to hate on why anyone does anything.
if someone doesnt need a cross bike or a down hill bike or a tt bike etc. should they be dissed for wanting one and liking them, if a "fat lazy person" wants an ebike what is wrong with that?
it doesnt affect us so i prefer the "i dont want one because", rather than slagging off or being judgmental on someone that does.
dislike the genre is ok, not wanting one is ok, slagging others who do, is not ok. - IMO
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Is this not a motorbike either then....because it has pedals?
I've got nothing against them (in fact, I hired one on holiday, it was ok, nothing life-changing), I'm just not interested in them.
It's a bit annoying when some bike shop websites list them amongst the mountain bikes (annoying may be too strong a word) - its not what I'm looking for in the mountain bike category, just as them putting kids' Barbie bikes in the same listing would be wrong.
They're just different things. If you want/need one, fine go for it. Same as I would, without giving the slightest shit what anyone else thought.
My Aunt, Uncle and her friend are getting on a bit now (all retired). They've always enjoyed riding and I've got some fond memories of family rides round FOD and in Germany through the vineyards.
Sadly with age they physically can't ride like they used to, coupled with the fact that they live in a massive valley in the Cotswolds, means they don't get out on the bikes anymore.
Then they had a go on e-bikes and it's transformed their lives. My uncle can now cycle to the gym and up to town without a bother. It's the help with the hills that does it for them.
They are leisure and function cyclists- so the e-bike lets them do this with greater access to everything they want. They would otherwise take the car. Nip to the shops and fill up the panniers, go to the friends in the next village and go to the gym, plus all the leisure riding.
In summary, two less cars on the road (most of the time), three more of the aging population keeping fit and healthy and helping to alleviate the burden on the NHS. I think there's an application for e-bikes in all forms of riding. It's just another choice, like Pepsi and Cola, Tesco and Lidle, Board shorts and skinsuits. [b]It's just a case of not being a knob and being courteous in how you use it[/b] (this applies to everything in life).
(They have just spent over £10k though!! That's a huge amount for complete amateurs.)
Roter Stern - MemberWell that electric motor sitting around the bottom bracket is a bit of a give away How you engage the motor is irrelevant.
Except for being literally the entire difference between an electric motorbike and an electric-assist bike, yes, it's irrelevant.
When you get [url= https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=derestricting+electric+bike ]stuff like this[/url] "they are only pedal assist!" doesn't really wash. They are a tweak away from being an electric motor bike.
Here's my take:
Many people put an awful lot of time and effort and money into MTB'ing, and become good at it - get fit, develop the skillz etc - and become a recognised member of the MTB 'clan'. The better MTB'er you are, the faster you will generally be, and it's that speed bit that is the most obvious differentiator of the better riders.
MTB'ing has always had an element of 'racing you mates' to it, and Strava has opened that up even more. It's what generates the MTB social order (fastest first) but also provides an incentive to get better - I want to get faster, so need to get fitter and get the skillz.
Ebikes represent a threat to this 'social order' as you can now be fast without having to invest the time and effort to become a 'good' rider.
Well, so what? People are having fun, getting out etc etc... The 'so what' is that your pissing on other people's chips by devaluing the currency that separates the good riders from the less able ones - speed.
It's why people get upset losing a Strava rankings to ebikes. To those who don't use Strava / look down their noses at it, they don't really understand or care about the effort that some people put in to improving their riding / fitness which an improved Strava rank represents.
Should you care? That's up to you, but if you don't care, you can't be blind to why some people are unhappy with them (irrespective of the surrounding issues of people using ebikes inappropriately - chipped/deregulated etc)
Klunk - MemberWhen you get stuff like this "they are only pedal assist!" doesn't really wash.
That isn't a UK-legal pedelec, though- someone's taken it and turned it into something else.
You can take a learner-legal scooter and turn it mental too, that's something that's been around forever and tbh it's just not that big a deal.
chum3 - MemberWell, so what? People are having fun, getting out etc etc... The 'so what' is that your pissing on other people's chips
You're not, though. I mean, people might choose to think so but to be blunt that's their problem. It's apples and oranges and if being fast on a standard mountain bike is important to you, why would it bother you if someone is fast on an e-bike?
As for strava, anyone that takes strava that seriously is out of their minds anyway, it's always been completely undermined by cheats and inaccuracy, so let this new disaster come, it makes but one more.
You're not, though. I mean, people might choose to think so but to be blunt that's their problem. It's apples and oranges and if being fast on a standard mountain bike is important to you, why would it bother you if someone is fast on an e-bike?
Speed is speed, and it's an attribute that is hard earned... Look, I'm not saying everyone is bothered by it, but my post covers my main thoughts. People are people - are emotional beings, and are sometimes irrational, but it doesn't mean that they don't feel the way they do.
Should you care? That's up to you, but if you don't care, you can't be blind to why some people are unhappy with them...
You can take a learner-legal scooter and turn it mental too, that's something that's been around forever and tbh it's just not that big a deal.
you can but it's not done very often. Why ? because the roads are policed and there's a fairly good chance you'll be caught. Who's going to police the trails and check for chiped ebikes, nobody that's who.If illegal ebikes cause a problem we're all going to be lumped into the one group.
I agree that the odd "hot" learner scooter isn't a problem because their on the roads mixing with even faster vehicle's, introducing chipped ebikes onto our trails is something new.
As for strava, anyone that takes strava that seriously is out of their minds anyway, it's always been completely undermined by cheats and inaccuracy, so let this new disaster come, it makes but one more.
Yes and no... If you're in the top 1-2% of a segment that has 2000 rider attempts, you know you're pretty quick, irrespective of the cheats, inaccuracies, wind assists (and E bikes!)
I am not completely against them in principle, lots of good reasons to get people, that are less able, out on a bike.
That said I went past a guy on one on my local circuit recently, and as I passed I wondered how I would feel if he re-passed me? Fully fit person chasing me down because he has a battery! I think I would be annoyed, blowing out of my arse trying to go as quickly as I could.
Is the marketing being aimed at the disabled? I don't frequent disability stores, but I suspect bikes with 140mm travel aren't. Happy to be corrected on that, could simply be my ignorance though.
I personally feel the marketing is aimed at those that aren't fit enough to go as quickly or as far as they would like. Personally that's why I ride a bike, to achieve the fast time or that further distance.
All that said I wouldn't mind a spin on one, just to see how much quicker it would make me.
Seems to me that many leisure cyclists see pedelecs as mobility scooters.
As a 'cyclist for the joy and health of cycling', I rather see cars like that. At least the way they are commonly used, ie for everything.
Currently laid up so do the shopping in the car. Hate it. Normally I do it on the 3spd pedally thing. No electric assist in the stable at present but if I had to make up time, lived further out from shops, or did the school run regularly I would get one and happily take all the 'cheating' flack from the petrolheads, weekend warriors (roadies, mtbers etc), and uplifters 😉
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chum3 - MemberPeople are people - are emotional beings, and are sometimes irrational, but it doesn't mean that they don't feel the way they do.
Of course- but you can't expect irrational baseless feelings to take precedence over other people's choice. And e-bikes are out there regardless so anyone who has a problem with it is either going to have to make peace with it, or is going to be unhappy about it, and isn't it better if it's the former? The obvious way to deal with it, is to treat it as what it is- apples and oranges.
I don't think it's helping anyone to pander to it, though, that just encourages people to be unhappy. But some people will always prefer that of course.
chum3 - MemberYes and no... If you're in the top 1-2% of a segment that has 2000 rider attempts, you know you're pretty quick, irrespective of the cheats, inaccuracies, wind assists (and E bikes!)
Well that's my point- strava isn't suddenly ruined by this
