Do you think that winners of the tour should loose their winners status if others in their team have been found to have doped even if they haven't? I ask as the importance of good team mates is obviously paramount to success (more often than not)so if their team mates have cheated then they have had an unfair advantage, especially in TT's and having good deomestiques in the mountains.
Seems a bit unfair no?
which is why teams have been kicked off in years past.
It would mean Lance loses a few of his..... 
No, so far this has been a very clean tour. Cycling is far cleaner then a lot of sports. I.e. Football, it just doesn't get on the news as cycling is seen as a drug sport.
has someone tested positive?
which is why teams have been kicked off in years past.
Ideed some teams have been chucked off, some have withdrawn themselves due to pressure from sponsors - i'm taliking retrospectivly, as in the UCI demanding that Byarn Riis hand back his yellow jersey etc, or changing the official winner of the 2006 tour.
Do you think it's fair that winners of the tour retain their status as 'winner' if their team mates that actual year were proved to have doped?
has someone tested positive?
This won't be officially released until after the tour apparently. I wouldn't be supprised if one or two are implicated, but i don't think it's going to be anyone of the big names, hence my original question.
personally, i think its unfair for a winner to be disqualified because of a teammates cheating.
look at menchov a couple of years ago. although he didn't get close to winning, he was obviously as piss3d off as the fans at rasmussens indiscretions. if he was winning, it had nothing to do with him
If you think that it's unfair that they be disqualified how/do you think is it possible to address the notion that an unfair advantage has been given to the winner, maybe allowing him to win? I know it would be hard to prove that they would of won anyway if their team mates had been clean.
It depends on the context.
There is organised doping (think festina, t mobile astana maybe) so in these cases, if it can be proved, yep chuck them out.
There's also indvidiuals doping like that fellow from cofidis the other year, i wouldn't think for a minute that his frenchie teammates were on the fiddle so on them, it;s ufair.
Lance reckons that there was no doping, yet, quite a few of his teammates over the years have subsequently returned positive tests. even the most anti lance fan would find it hard to prove, or argue, that it was organised doping within his team. in this context it would be hard to disqualify a man who has no control over the preparation of his teammates.
Anybody riding the Tour should be allowed any drugs they want. Especially those that kill.
Athletics: 4x100m - if one person tests positive, the others have to give their medals back.
Athletics: 4x100m - if one person tests positive, the others have to give their medals back.
athletics peoples do drugs?
i thought it was just cyclists.. 
it's harsh on the clean cyclist that loses out because of a team-mate that cheats, but in my opinion nothing will clean the sport faster than if the bulk of the riders were to shun the few remaining cheats (and even the suspect ones) for that fear of being penalised by it.
I agree it's "unfair" if a domestique is found to have doped and been a big contributor to a winners performance, but the winner still has to be able to ride with them, as do their competitors. I wouldn't penalise the winner, but I would hit the team. Docking points from the teams pro tour standings makes sense, or kicking them out altogether. Then the Directeur Sportif gets hit, and he has to balance the sponsors, budget and riders.
Having seen Di Luca in the Giro, I can't say I'm suprised he's positive.
Top quotes so far:
markrenshaw1 Thanks to Di Luca for all the hurt he put on us @ giro ! Good job UCI keep em coming...
bradwiggins Di Luca, what a ****! unbelievable
I agree wit crell, having watched di luca (and knowing his past) i'm not surprised either. Take his license off him and tell him to f*ck of. then take his prize money off him.
for those in lpr who ain't previous drugs cheats, bad luck, but, they can't be held responsible for di luca's continued cheating.
docking pro tour points means nothing as being pro tour is not based on merit or performance.
but the winner still has to be able to ride with them, as do their competitors
docking pro tour points means nothing as being pro tour is not based on merit or performance.
True! You've got to penalise the responsible rider ultimately, but I'd make the directeur sportif accountable. They should have a licence tallying up the doped rider numbers in their team over the years. The likes of ASO could use it to weight their team's inclusion in to the TDF. If it was use on the scale of Cofidis though that's a different ball game that needs stronger measures.
Except their competitors don't get the advantage of how fast they ride in the TTT - that's the crunch.
One doping rider in the TTT won't make a massive impact. They'll still do turns so their performance boost is factored by the rest of the team. I was really pleased to see the TTT back this year but it's buggered the GC by not capping the losses, or using the old "bonus" system. Have a look at this table. It shows what the GC would have looked like with the TTT removed after Verbier. It's a very different picture.
There is no easy answer though, but you knew that already 
The whole team has to be penalised otherwise some teams don't take enough responsibility for their in-house testing and monitoring of the biological passports of their riders.
It's way too early to say this year's Tour is clean to, given how long it took for the Giro failed test to come through.
Yer Popo's going to look like the hero of Astana for at least the next few weeks/months. I don't know why Di Luca's result took so long, it didn't take that long to find Saunier Dauval out when CERA testing was in it's infancy. Strange.
And footballers. When the drugs tester turns up they hide in the bog till he's gone. There's currently no penalty for missing a drugs test in football.
what drugs do footballers do, beside cocain? i heard quite a few were implicated in Puerto.
Trouble is, I think the effects go wider than that.
Christophe Moreau got absolutley flattened in that cross-wind split to Montpelier the other year - completely put him out of contention. The split was driven by Astana and at that stage Vino must already have given the positive tests that would lead to the team being barred from the race the following year.
There's currently no penalty for missing a drugs test in football.
um, i'd imagine Rio Ferdinand would disagree with you there...
FIFA are signed up to WADA now aren't they?
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